How bad is UF? Forum

[mvonh001]

I hear so many different things about UF that I am sufficiently confused.

How bad is the school for working in Florida preferably Big Law (because isn't that what we all really want deep down)?

Is it really the shit law school that some people make it out to be?
Does going there really mean you will end up broke, jobless, with aids, and pregnant?

I'm just looking for some answers here.

There 10% big law number is not great, but how many schools really place more people in Big Law? 43? For being the ~44 law school in the nation (as ranked by USNWR) it sure does get a lot of shit. Is that because it's market (FL) is a legal shithole? Or is something inherently wrong with the school...

I ask because I bombed the June LSAT (163) and may have to go to UF, unless my retake in October comes through with a 170+ - and UF would be free for me, but even if it wasn't, it would only cost like 18 grand a year.

I'm very serious about this post, so please, if you have something to contribute please do.

[Typhoon24]

it's not UF that sucks, it's the florida market that does. So if anyone is to get a job in that oversaturated market, it would be the UF guys first. I live in FL and a lot of my pre-law professors think that is tcr and it seems TLS agrees to some extent. I'm sending an app there in the fall as a regional backup.

[mvonh001]

it's not UF that sucks, it's the florida market that does. So if anyone is to get a job in that oversaturated market, it would be the UF guys first. I live in FL and a lot of my pre-law professors think that is the tcr and it seems TLS agrees to some extent. I'm sending an app there in the fall as a regional backup.

That's what my plan was until i got this lsat score.. O well ill do better next time.. Anyway, would you actually attend UF over a t14?

[Typhoon24]

it's not UF that sucks, it's the florida market that does. So if anyone is to get a job in that oversaturated market, it would be the UF guys first. I live in FL and a lot of my pre-law professors think that is the tcr and it seems TLS agrees to some extent. I'm sending an app there in the fall as a regional backup.

That's what my plan was until i got this lsat score.. O well ill do better next time.. Anyway, would you actually attend UF over a t14?

not in this lifetime i wont. lol there MIGHT be some consideration if I was interested in practicing in non-miami florida and I was getting a full ride at UF vs and sticker at like georgetown, but I wanna practice in the northeast or cali.

[Cicero76]

UF is not that bad, and I'm not just speaking as an undergrad fanboi. Its cost is low enough that you're not making a $150,000 mistake. You have a decent chance of building a career in Florida with a degree from the best law school in the state. The alumni network is great, and will usually go to bat for you.

[mvonh001]

UF is not that bad, and I'm not just speaking as an undergrad fanboi. Its cost is low enough that you're not making a $150,000 mistake. You have a decent chance of building a career in Florida with a degree from the best law school in the state. The alumni network is great, and will usually go to bat for you.

And that is coming from a YLStudent... I hate this website sometimes, I get so many mixed messages...

[untar614]

As another undergrad fanboi, I will also say UF isn't bad. It's the best school in the state (unless you wanna do state and local government work, in which case FSU is better cuz it's in the state capital). It's just that the legal market in FL sucks and is way oversaturated, and despite Miami, Tampa and Orlando seeming like really big cities that would have good markets, the biglaw offices in these places are really small. Honestly, UF should cut their class size significantly. They have a mad respek here in FL, and the top of the class has access to the good jobs, but there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with, or places that only want laterals (which may be more common here since the offices are smaller. I have know actual knowledge of the specific situation here, but my intuition leads me to believe smaller offices will be less likely to want to train many recent grads, as issues of scale make it more difficult)

It's like a smaller, more localized GULC kind of situation.

[mvonh001]

As another undergrad fanboi, I will also say UF isn't bad. It's the best school in the state (unless you wanna do state and local government work, in which case FSU is better cuz it's in the state capital). It's just that the legal market in FL sucks and is way oversaturated, and despite Miami, Tampa and Orlando seeming like really big cities that would have good markets, the biglaw offices in these places are really small. Honestly, UF should cut their class size significantly. They have a mad respek here in FL, and the top of the class has access to the good jobs, but there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with, or places that only want laterals (which may be more common here since the offices are smaller. I have know actual knowledge of the specific situation here, but my intuition leads me to believe smaller offices will be less likely to want to train many recent grads, as issues of scale make it more difficult)

It's like a smaller, more localized GULC kind of situation.

So UF = GULC of the south? Lol

[untar614]

As another undergrad fanboi, I will also say UF isn't bad. It's the best school in the state (unless you wanna do state and local government work, in which case FSU is better cuz it's in the state capital). It's just that the legal market in FL sucks and is way oversaturated, and despite Miami, Tampa and Orlando seeming like really big cities that would have good markets, the biglaw offices in these places are really small. Honestly, UF should cut their class size significantly. They have a mad respek here in FL, and the top of the class has access to the good jobs, but there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with, or places that only want laterals (which may be more common here since the offices are smaller. I have know actual knowledge of the specific situation here, but my intuition leads me to believe smaller offices will be less likely to want to train many recent grads, as issues of scale make it more difficult)

It's like a smaller, more localized GULC kind of situation.

So UF = GULC of the south? Lol

More like the GULC of Florida. It's the best school that's there, but the jobs are in short supply, and there are also students from top ranked school coming in there too, and the class size is too big for the number of jobs available there.
(I'm just making an analogy here though. GULC actually holds some weight outside of DC, while UF outside of Florida, not so much)

[mvonh001]

As another undergrad fanboi, I will also say UF isn't bad. It's the best school in the state (unless you wanna do state and local government work, in which case FSU is better cuz it's in the state capital). It's just that the legal market in FL sucks and is way oversaturated, and despite Miami, Tampa and Orlando seeming like really big cities that would have good markets, the biglaw offices in these places are really small. Honestly, UF should cut their class size significantly. They have a mad respek here in FL, and the top of the class has access to the good jobs, but there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with, or places that only want laterals (which may be more common here since the offices are smaller. I have know actual knowledge of the specific situation here, but my intuition leads me to believe smaller offices will be less likely to want to train many recent grads, as issues of scale make it more difficult)

It's like a smaller, more localized GULC kind of situation.

So UF = GULC of the south? Lol

More like the GULC of Florida. It's the best school that's there, but the jobs are in short supply, and there are also students from top ranked school coming in there too, and the class size is too big for the number of jobs available there.
(I'm just making an analogy here though. GULC actually holds some weight outside of DC, while UF outside of Florida, not so much)

Ya, i got that... Don't worry, I understand your analogy... Thanks for your input.

[oblig.lawl.ref]

there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with

This--if you want biglaw. I don't have much advice outside of the t14/biglaw range of things but if you say you really want biglaw, almost always this.

[Cicero76]

I can also attest to the awfulness of Florida's market. In talking to Orlando attorneys, they have to a person told me that the market is atrocious across the state and no small firm they know of would hire anyone at all. Unfortunately, the only large firms outside Miami are mostly shitlaw and ambulance chasers, where your salary sucks and getting a job is STILL hard. You know a market is hopelessly flooded when you see four different billboards with variations on "1-800-ABOGADO" on one street.

[mvonh001]

So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.

[nebula666]

So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.

It depends where you are from. I personally wouldn't work in Miami which is why I will end up targeting Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm, Ft. Lauderale.

Very few people leave the state of Florida.

[mvonh001]

So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.

It depends where you are from. I personally wouldn't work in Miami which is why I will end up targeting Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm, Ft. Lauderale.

Very few people leave the state of Florida.

Have you had any luck in this process, would you mind if i PM'd you soem questions?

[nebula666]

So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.

It depends where you are from. I personally wouldn't work in Miami which is why I will end up targeting Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm, Ft. Lauderale.

Very few people leave the state of Florida.

Have you had any luck in this process, would you mind if i PM'd you soem questions?

I'm only a rising 2L but sure you can PM me about anything UF law related

[itachiuchiha]

I hear so many different things about UF that I am sufficiently confused.

How bad is the school for working in Florida preferably Big Law (because isn't that what we all really want deep down)?

Is it really the shit law school that some people make it out to be?
Does going there really mean you will end up broke, jobless, with aids, and pregnant?

I'm just looking for some answers here.

There 10% big law number is not great, but how many schools really place more people in Big Law? 43? For being the ~44 law school in the nation (as ranked by USNWR) it sure does get a lot of shit. Is that because it's market (FL) is a legal shithole? Or is something inherently wrong with the school...

I ask because I bombed the June LSAT (163) and may have to go to UF, unless my retake in October comes through with a 170+ - and UF would be free for me, but even if it wasn't, it would only cost like 18 grand a year.

I'm very serious about this post, so please, if you have something to contribute please do.

3.82 and 158
i am retaking.... but as of now uf is my #1 until i get a better score
fl resident

[mvonh001]

I hear so many different things about UF that I am sufficiently confused.

How bad is the school for working in Florida preferably Big Law (because isn't that what we all really want deep down)?

Is it really the shit law school that some people make it out to be?
Does going there really mean you will end up broke, jobless, with aids, and pregnant?

I'm just looking for some answers here.

There 10% big law number is not great, but how many schools really place more people in Big Law? 43? For being the ~44 law school in the nation (as ranked by USNWR) it sure does get a lot of shit. Is that because it's market (FL) is a legal shithole? Or is something inherently wrong with the school...

I ask because I bombed the June LSAT (163) and may have to go to UF, unless my retake in October comes through with a 170+ - and UF would be free for me, but even if it wasn't, it would only cost like 18 grand a year.

I'm very serious about this post, so please, if you have something to contribute please do.

3.82 and 158
i am retaking.... but as of now uf is my #1 until i get a better score
fl resident

Word... hopefully I wont be seeing you there (because we will both have outscored our original LSAT)

[itachiuchiha]

I'm praying for us my brotha!

[Joe Quincy]

I posted this in your other thread, but ~60% of their grads were in firms <50 people with a median salary of $60K. $60K...keep that in mind when you decide if you can service the debt from there. Another 13% went to "business" with a median salary of $57K.

http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/graduate- ... statistics

[Joe Quincy]

So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.

Only 4 people found a job in GA from UF for the last year in which data is available. http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/graduate- ... statistics

[AB Jag]

.

[Joe Quincy]

Is big law the only goal? Ha. Not for me.

I am a UF undergrad and UF law is my goal. 3.63/166 (June) and I'm pretty stoked because I think I'll get in. Would love some scholarship money. Don't care about starting salaries. This isn't a 5 year plan, it's a career choice. I want to be in Jax, don't care about making huge $, and love the school.

UF is fantastic.

? Starting salaries matter if you can't service the debt and also pay to live. Also, there isn't going to be some huge bump in salary down the road. Statistically, the vast majority of solos in a market like FL will be lucky to surpass $60-70K per year in their entire career. And a small firm starting at $60K will probably max you out around $80K. I know partners in these small firms that don't break $100K and the odds of partnership are just as bad, or worse, than in BigLaw.

Is BigLaw the only goal? Of course not. But be realistic with your expectations and how you're going to live for the next 30 years. For some, UF may be a great deal. For many, it will not be. No matter what, however, your starting salary is an important consideration.

Now UF is cheaper than many, but 3 years would still be about $111K in debt according to the student budget. That's $1,277 per month for ten years ($42,287 in total interest paid) or $723 for 30 years ($149,506 in total interest paid). A $1,200 payment for 10 years would be hard to swing at $60K, particularly at the point in life where people are having kids, should be saving for retirement, etc. I mean, that 30% of your after-tax income for 10 years!

[AB Jag]

.

[Joe Quincy]

Is BigLaw the only goal? Of course not. But be realistic with your expectations and how you're going to live for the next 30 years. For some, UF may be a great deal. For many, it will not be. No matter what, however, your starting salary is an important consideration.

With UF being as inexpensive as it is, if I'm not able to cover my debts on 60k a year then I am an embarrassment to my business degree.

See my edit. Your payment would be nearly 30% of your after-tax income for 10 years. The most important 10 years savings wise and the 10 years in which you are likely to have some of the largest expenses in your life. While UF is cheaper than many, you're still looking at $112K in debt if you can manage to live within the student budget (many cannot when you factor in unpaid summers, etc).

And if you do 30 years, you're looking at a total economic cost of nearly $260K.

$37K a year is cheaper than many, but it is far from inexpensive. And like I said, for some it may be worthwhile. But there are a lot of assumptions built into even that $60K a year figure, many have undergrad debt in addition, and many could make close to that $60K without attending law school at all.

And all those numbers are at the resident rate. The non-resident debt load would be $169K and $1944 per month for 10 years (45% of after tax income).

And sure, IBR/PAYE can help but your again making lots of assumptions and greatly limiting your ability to ever accumulate wealth or retirement funds.