Penn ($) vs NYU Forum

[happyshapy]

So I just got into NYU off the waitlist and now I can't make up my mind.

Penn gave 30k total in need-based aid. Parents are helping a bit with COL (everything except rent). I'm assuming NYU will give me nothing since they want both of my parents info on need access instead of just the custodial parent.

I would rather live in NYC since most of my friends live there, I have roommate options, and the possibility of commuting from home (15 min train ride to grand central). I'm also leaning more towards PI but wouldn't mind big law. My background is a little PI focused but doesn't scream it. End goals are working in NYC or northeast area, but also having the small possibility of coming back to Colorado where I currently live. I like how Penn doesn't rank or have GPAs and has a smaller class size.

What would you guys do?

[senorhosh]

-You're leaning towards PI. NYU blows Penn out of the water for PI. I doubt that 30k will matter if you are on LRAP.
-Biglaw- It's difficult to say with confidence which school is better (though personally I think Penn > NYU for biglaw). If you look at LST, NYU definitely has lower % in biglaw and fed clerkship; however, it doesn't account self selection into other areas. I'm not comfortable with not knowing how much of PI was self selection or legitimate so I personally would take Penn for biglaw.

I'd say it's a toss up, but I personally would take Penn because I'm biglaw or bust. If you put PI into the mix, I'm not so sure.

Btw: Not sure why but based on the posts here, NYU seems extra stingy this year. Don't count on money

[sinfiery]

I would be shocked if Penn students had an easier time getting NYC biglaw than NYU. That being said, UPenn feeds into Pennsylvania biglaw really well and that is in the NE to provide a safety net.


Most people who say they want PI, probably, (based on non 0L anecdotes) end up at OCI and shooting for biglaw.


If you want to live in NYC, I see no reason to pick Penn here.

[laotze]

I would be shocked if Penn students had an easier time getting NYC biglaw than NYU. That being said, UPenn feeds into Pennsylvania biglaw really well and that is in the NE to provide a safety net.

Wait, what? I agree that NYU is probably a better bet than Penn for NYC biglaw, but it seems a stretch to say that Penn "feeds into Pennsylvania biglaw really well." Everything I've seen/heard (including from Penn's admissions department) suggests that only a small percentage of their class says in Philly each year compared to NYC/DC/regional, and I don't get the impression that Penn has all that awesome of a local alumni network. Is one of us completely mistaken here?

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I would be shocked if Penn students had an easier time getting NYC biglaw than NYU. That being said, UPenn feeds into Pennsylvania biglaw really well and that is in the NE to provide a safety net.

Wait, what? I agree that NYU is probably a better bet than Penn for NYC biglaw, but it seems a stretch to say that Penn "feeds into Pennsylvania biglaw really well." Everything I've seen/heard (including from Penn's admissions department) suggests that only a small percentage of their class says in Philly each year compared to NYC/DC/regional, and I don't get the impression that Penn has all that awesome of a local alumni network. Is one of us completely mistaken here?

You can both be right. Philly's total Biglaw market is much smaller (so not that many Penn grads stay), but out of that market, Penn dominates it.

[sinfiery]

I looked at a few Penn biglaw websites and they had a good UPenn base there. UPenn has a much larger amount of students stay in Penn compared to the equivalent for HYMVD in their home markets.

I only mentioned it because it seems to be a viable biglaw market for Penn in the NE, not that it was where most of their students go

[jbagelboy]

I would be shocked if Penn students had an easier time getting NYC biglaw than NYU. That being said, UPenn feeds into Pennsylvania biglaw really well and that is in the NE to provide a safety net.

Wait, what? I agree that NYU is probably a better bet than Penn for NYC biglaw, but it seems a stretch to say that Penn "feeds into Pennsylvania biglaw really well." Everything I've seen/heard (including from Penn's admissions department) suggests that only a small percentage of their class says in Philly each year compared to NYC/DC/regional, and I don't get the impression that Penn has all that awesome of a local alumni network. Is one of us completely mistaken here?

the data tells us that "small percentage" is around 18%, which as sinf noted, is higher than any top schools that aren't located in major legal markets. Seems significant to me

[happyshapy]

Most people who say they want PI, probably, (based on non 0L anecdotes) end up at OCI and shooting for biglaw.

But I wonder if at NYU this is different. I'm leaning towards NYU since PI seems more attainable and big law equal. NYU would be more expensive but they have a better LRAP.

I almost wish I EDed to one of them so I wouldn't have to choose...

[untar614]

How are you calculating your COAs? These don't seem right.

Also, Greenwich Village costs about 30 trillion times more to live in than University City. I'd be willing to bet the correct COAs will make Penn the clear winner.

[sinfiery]

From everything I've read, its more about the structure of getting a job. PI comes generally after graduation and you have to have the desire for it to hold out on trying for that firm job in your second year of school that pays enough to actually service your 200k+ student debt all while the threat of being jobless with that debt looms over your head. NYU may have some advantages in its student body being more committed to PI and may have a slight advantage in its ability to place, but your care free attitude towards the goal is why I think most people in your shoes don't hold out from all the pressure that comes with the private practice route.

[happyshapy]

How are you calculating your COAs? These don't seem right.

Also, Greenwich Village costs about 30 trillion times more to live in than University City. I'd be willing to bet the correct COAs will make Penn the clear winner.

My family is helping pay COL aside from rent. I have many many friends who live in NYC so I will have roommates I know are responsible and quiet. Right now four of these friends (one couple sharing a room) live together and each pay $750 on the UES, one is moving out and I might take her place. NYC rent is expensive but not insane if you wait it out and don't bite the bullet too soon on an apt. University City would be cheaper if I had the same friend situation but I don't. I'd probably only feel comfortable with one roommate so I'd be looking at 600/650 a month. I'm guessing I'd be paying around 5000 more in rent in NYC.

I also don't really need to live in the village. Anywhere in the UES or midtown would be fine.

[czelede]

If you are 100% certain you want PI and are fairly confident you can land a PI job, then NYU all the way. The difference in money won't matter after LRAP is factored in. NYU has FAR better opportunities for PI, and the location affords you the chance to take some pretty cool externships.

If there is a chance you will end up in private practice, then Penn all the way. It's a TON cheaper. I won't make any assertions that Penn has better biglaw placement than NYU, but they'll both essentially get you to the same place for the same amount of work.

[sinfiery]

For OP, Penn is 35k coa cheaper

[happyshapy]

From everything I've read, its more about the structure of getting a job. PI comes generally after graduation and you have to have the desire for it to hold out on trying for that firm job in your second year of school that pays enough to actually service your 200k+ student debt all while the threat of being jobless with that debt looms over your head. NYU may have some advantages in its student body being more committed to PI and may have a slight advantage in its ability to place, but your care free attitude towards the goal is why I think most people in your shoes don't hold out from all the pressure that comes with the private practice route.

This seems pretty true. I would love to do PI, but I worry that I'd have a hard time getting a PI job since my resume doesn't scream it. Being confident in a job after OCI would be really nice looking down on 200k debt, but I'm not sure I would be happy in Biglaw.

I also wonder how possible PI is from Penn

[untar614]

From everything I've read, its more about the structure of getting a job. PI comes generally after graduation and you have to have the desire for it to hold out on trying for that firm job in your second year of school that pays enough to actually service your 200k+ student debt all while the threat of being jobless with that debt looms over your head. NYU may have some advantages in its student body being more committed to PI and may have a slight advantage in its ability to place, but your care free attitude towards the goal is why I think most people in your shoes don't hold out from all the pressure that comes with the private practice route.

This seems pretty true. I would love to do PI, but I worry that I'd have a hard time getting a PI job since my resume doesn't scream it. Being confident in a job after OCI would be really nice looking down on 200k debt, but I'm not sure I would be happy in Biglaw.

I also wonder how possible PI is from Penn

Hard for us to say. Seems few ppl go to Penn looking to do PI, but that doesn't tell us much about what's possible or likely. Try calling up the CSO, see what info they can provide, maybe they can put you in tough with some grads doing PI. But it has been said around here many times that you need to be sure you want PI and push for that the whole time if you want to do that.

[31415926]

From everything I've read, its more about the structure of getting a job. PI comes generally after graduation and you have to have the desire for it to hold out on trying for that firm job in your second year of school that pays enough to actually service your 200k+ student debt all while the threat of being jobless with that debt looms over your head. NYU may have some advantages in its student body being more committed to PI and may have a slight advantage in its ability to place, but your care free attitude towards the goal is why I think most people in your shoes don't hold out from all the pressure that comes with the private practice route.

This seems pretty true. I would love to do PI, but I worry that I'd have a hard time getting a PI job since my resume doesn't scream it. Being confident in a job after OCI would be really nice looking down on 200k debt, but I'm not sure I would be happy in Biglaw.

I also wonder how possible PI is from Penn

It's definitely not impossible. I will say, however, that the people I know in PI at Penn are all extremely, extremely impressive with respect to their pre-law school backgrounds (and continue to be impressive in law school) and I would've been surprised to see them not excel at PI no matter where they went. I'm sure that NYU's PI student body is also impressive (and likely a lot larger) but I feel that the schools tend to cater to their students differently. That is, my general impression is that NYU dedicates a significant amount of time and resources to their PI students, whereas Penn dedicates more to private practice - in particular, NY biglaw. This is not to say that Penn doesn't care about biglaw, or that you CAN'T get PI from Penn, but it seems that you will have a better chance at finding rewarding opportunities at NYU.

[Nelson]

OP prob won't end up doing PI or working in Philly w/o the appropriate work experience and ties, so with 30k + cheaper COA this is a wash in terms of value. I'd choose NYU over Penn for personal reasons, but not for career goals. Depends on how much OP values being in NYC vs. having 30k+ less in loans.