UCLA ($$) UPenn Forum

[sd86]

I live in Los Angeles with my spouse, and we really love it here. Though it would be a sacrifice for my spouse to move, she is willing to relocate if we decide that it is a better option for our future family. We both grew up in Chicago, and if we leave California that is the only other area we can see ourselves living in long term. I am waitlisted at Northwestern, and will receive a new LSAT score next week (anticipating higher, but not much much higher). If I am accepted there, I will strongly consider it, but for now I am not treating it as an option. I have a merit scholarship from UCLA, and I believe that I could have it increased a bit if I improved my LSAT, based on conversations with the school. I have no scholarship offering from UPenn at this time. I would really appreciate your input.

So...
UCLA or UPenn?
UCLA or UPenn or NU (if offered)?
What new LSAT score should make me consider withdrawing this year and applying next cycle?

More information below....
-The schools you are considering
UCLA and UPenn. Waitlisted at Northwestern.
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each.
~$120,000 for UCLA and ~$230,000 for UPenn.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
Loans.
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
From Chicago and living in Los Angeles. My spouse has better career options in LA (though working outside of LA is not impossible), and we would prefer to live long term in Los Angeles, Chicago, or the Bay area (order of preference). Spouse will relocate if I attend UPenn.
-Your general career goals
Would like to work at large firm after graduation to help with loan repayment. Interest in entertainment law lead me to law school, but will enter with an open mind.
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
3.88 and 163. I retook the LSAT in June (am now maxed out) and the schools have agreed to re-assess my scholarships after I receive my score next week. I am anticipating a higher score, and think that Northwestern may become a 3rd option at that time.
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Maxed out, new score is pending.

[jbagelboy]

It's very impressive that you got into Penn with a 163. Congrats! Imagine now what you could do with a 170?

I think any score over 168 and you should reapply. Under that, you probably won't hit much higher than Penn @ sticker anyway (although waiting again and retaking/reapplying w/ that 3.88 is always an option). Also important to note, if you don't have a merit scholarship to penn and you are loaning the CoA, the total will end up closer to $270K than $230K.

If you want a big firm job, you can get it from Penn, whereas it's unlikely from UCLA and $120K is a lot to pay off on a non-biglaw salary. Can your SO get a job in philly? part of this has to be an internal discussion, which I'm sure you know. Personally, as long as my SO was on board, I would go to UPenn unless I knew I wanted to work in LA and I didn't mind working in a smaller capacity/at a smaller firm. If your SO could support you with a job in LA and get your UCLA COA under $100K, it might tilt the scales in its favor for me.

[sd86]

It's very impressive that you got into Penn with a 163. Congrats! Imagine now what you could do with a 170?

I think any score over 168 and you should reapply. Under that, you probably won't hit much higher than Penn @ sticker anyway (although waiting again and retaking/reapplying w/ that 3.88 is always an option). Also important to note, if you don't have a merit scholarship to penn and you are loaning the CoA, the total will end up closer to $270K than $230K.

If you want a big firm job, you can get it from Penn, whereas it's unlikely from UCLA and $120K is a lot to pay off on a non-biglaw salary. Can your SO get a job in philly? part of this has to be an internal discussion, which I'm sure you know. Personally, as long as my SO was on board, I would go to UPenn unless I knew I wanted to work in LA and I didn't mind working in a smaller capacity/at a smaller firm. If your SO could support you with a job in LA and get your UCLA COA under $100K, it might tilt the scales in its favor for me.

Thank you for your feedback, truly. I was shocked that I was admitted to Penn as well (I only applied because of a fee waiver). The plan had been to go to a school in LA, and the news from Penn was met with happiness and confusion. I have taken the LSAT 3 times now, and re-taking again is not an option. The COA figures above include some support from my SO, and now that I'm thinking about it harder the COA for UCLA is closer to ~100k, though not a huge difference. SO can get a job in Philly, but there might be a period of time (1 semester) where we are bi-coastal. Thank you again!

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Reapply with your new better score. Chicago. Profit.

[Winston1984]

If your SO was able to find a job in Philly, would it be enough to cover your cost of living as well? If you could just take out loans for tuition, I would definitely take Penn over UCLA. You aren't a URM right? How did you study/prep for this last LSAT?

[y2zipper]

I saw the costs and was like WTF? With a 3.8, obvious retake is obvious. Oh, you're maxed and retook. Great.

Normally I'd say Penn easily, but a spouse with a job means that COL is probably reduced for you and gives you a compelling reason to stay instead of uprooting the family. If you get that 170, threaten to sit out and try to drastically reduce the cost of UCLA. If you could get UCLA for nearly free, that's a good situation for you and your spouse.

If you don't get the money you want from anyplace and have a 170+, sit out the cycle.
If you don't get the score you want, you'll have to take Penn.

[sd86]

If your SO was able to find a job in Philly, would it be enough to cover your cost of living as well? If you could just take out loans for tuition, I would definitely take Penn over UCLA. You aren't a URM right? How did you study/prep for this last LSAT?

SO will help with cost of living at both schools, but not cover it. Though, both of those COA figures are estimated a bit high and all inclusive.

Not URM. I studied for this last LSAT hard for about a month. I'm hopeful that I will do substantially better. I took it the first time not having prepared properly, and the second time I really underperformed relative to my practice tests. Hoping for substantial improvement, but not counting on it at this time.

[senorhosh]

I'd take penn over ucla full ride but with a spouse you have to make sacrifices.

If she doesn't mind the location, Penn all the way.

[sd86]

I saw the costs and was like WTF? With a 3.8, obvious retake is obvious. Oh, you're maxed and retook. Great.

Normally I'd say Penn easily, but a spouse with a job means that COL is probably reduced for you and gives you a compelling reason to stay instead of uprooting the family. If you get that 170, threaten to sit out and try to drastically reduce the cost of UCLA. If you could get UCLA for nearly free, that's a good situation for you and your spouse.

If you don't get the money you want from anyplace and have a 170+, sit out the cycle.
If you don't get the score you want, you'll have to take Penn.

Thank you!

[Redfactor]

.

[sd86]

Dual incomes is powerful to paying down debts.

I would find out what you got on the LSAT before making a decision though.

I agree on both counts. My SO would find work in Philadelphia and would still contribute to my COL. We've been out of school for a while, and though we could survive on her income alone I will take out ~15k a year to continue to be comfortable.

I will probably post again once my new score comes in, if my situation changes.

[PRgradBYU]

I live in Los Angeles with my spouse, and we really love it here. Though it would be a sacrifice for my spouse to move, she is willing to relocate if we decide that it is a better option for our future family. We both grew up in Chicago, and if we leave California that is the only other area we can see ourselves living in long term. I am waitlisted at Northwestern, and will receive a new LSAT score next week (anticipating higher, but not much much higher). If I am accepted there, I will strongly consider it, but for now I am not treating it as an option. I have a merit scholarship from UCLA, and I believe that I could have it increased a bit if I improved my LSAT, based on conversations with the school. I have no scholarship offering from UPenn at this time. I would really appreciate your input.

So...
UCLA or UPenn?
UCLA or UPenn or NU (if offered)?
What new LSAT score should make me consider withdrawing this year and applying next cycle?

More information below....
-The schools you are considering
UCLA and UPenn. Waitlisted at Northwestern.
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each.
~$120,000 for UCLA and ~$230,000 for UPenn.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
Loans.
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
From Chicago and living in Los Angeles. My spouse has better career options in LA (though working outside of LA is not impossible), and we would prefer to live long term in Los Angeles, Chicago, or the Bay area (order of preference). Spouse will relocate if I attend UPenn.
-Your general career goals
Would like to work at large firm after graduation to help with loan repayment. Interest in entertainment law lead me to law school, but will enter with an open mind.
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
3.88 and 163. I retook the LSAT in June (am now maxed out) and the schools have agreed to re-assess my scholarships after I receive my score next week. I am anticipating a higher score, and think that Northwestern may become a 3rd option at that time.
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Maxed out, new score is pending.

FWIW, I personally would pay sticker at Penn. It's a powerhouse of a law school with great employment prospects. Also, dat Ivy League swag. That being said, if your June LSAT ends up being even a few points higher, you ought to reapply. Classic TLS sentiment compels me to say, "Don't waste a 3.88 on a 163."

[sd86]

FWIW, I personally would pay sticker at Penn. It's a powerhouse of a law school with great employment prospects. Also, dat Ivy League swag. That being said, if your June LSAT ends up being even a few points higher, you ought to reapply. Classic TLS sentiment compels me to say, "Don't waste a 3.88 on a 163."

Thanks for your input, and I do hope that I raised my score. It's good to hear that I'm not insane to be considering paying sticker at Penn. I'm surprised by the results of the poll above, since the written comments seem to be relatively pro-Penn. Who voted for UCLA? Are you on a Penn WL?

[Big Dog]

Penn is awesome if you want to live in the east. But you do not.

Money and local ties beats the Ivy prestige, IMO.

However, the correct answer it to retake/reapply. (You only have to request a school to sponsor your 4th test.) Tell 'SC that you really love them, want to attend their school, join the Trojan Family, ...and KNOW that you could do better....

[twenty]

If you're a two income family, UCLA at 120k~ is not the end of the world. I don't like the idea of spending that much money on a UCLA law degree, but it seems like that's your best option here, barring a huge score increase.

Penn is probably a better option from a risk standpoint... but that's pretty much biglaw or bust -- you have to be prepared to spend 4+ years in a place you don't want to be, working hours you don't want to work.

[sd86]

Thanks, everyone!

[BigZuck]

How did you study for the LSAT? What materials did you use, how many practice tests did you take, etc.? Sounds like you barely studied (first time you said you barely did, only a month for the third, you didn't say what you did for the second).

If your study approach was as poor as it sounds like it was I would take the time to do it right the 4th time. You owe it to your GPA and your otherwise very good application package.

[sd86]

How did you study for the LSAT? What materials did you use, how many practice tests did you take, etc.? Sounds like you barely studied (first time you said you barely did, only a month for the third, you didn't say what you did for the second).

If your study approach was as poor as it sounds like it was I would take the time to do it right the 4th time. You owe it to your GPA and your otherwise very good application package.

Trust me, I studied very, very hard for the LSAT. It was as if I had two full time jobs. Hoping for a better score to come my way this week.

[sd86]

UPDATE: 174!!

[jbagelboy]

UPDATE: 174!!

Holy shit congrats thats amazing.

Withdraw today, reapply and enjoy HYS.

[sd86]

UPDATE: 174!!

Holy shit congrats thats amazing.

Withdraw today, reapply and enjoy HYS.

That seems to be the plan. Thank you!

[BigZuck]

UPDATE: 174!!

Holy shit congrats thats amazing.

Withdraw today, reapply and enjoy HYS.

That seems to be the plan. Thank you!

Congrats!!!

Really wish I could have retaken June. Looks like the test was easy as shit based on results posted on this site. Oh well.

[PRgradBYU]

UPDATE: 174!!

Holy shit congrats thats amazing.

Withdraw today, reapply and enjoy HYS.

That seems to be the plan. Thank you!

Congrats!!!

Really wish I could have retaken June. Looks like the test was easy as shit based on results posted on this site. Oh well.

C'mon, don't rain on OP's parade. Enjoy HYS, sd86.

[sd86]

C'mon, don't rain on OP's parade. Enjoy HYS, sd86.

Haha it's hard to rain on this parade today. Thank you!

[BigZuck]

Something tells me the OP will be fine. And I meant it when I said congrats.