Emory v. UIUC v. GMU v. Davis v. Lots of Other Schools Forum

[thisonetime]

I have been recently admitted off the wait list at a large number of schools and deadlines are coming up, I have to make a decision soon. I would greatly value some sage wisdom. Since I received a need-based fee waiver from LSAC, I cast a very wide net. I want to practice in Boston, Philadelphia or New York.

Basic Info:
LSAC GPA - Sub 3.0
Highest LSAT - 166
URM? Yes
Career goals? If I perform well enough in school, I'd love to work for the SEC.

NB: I cannot retake because I've already sat for the LSAT five times.

I have received a full-ride from:

UIUC
UC-Davis
Cardozo
Brooklyn (+ 1L in-house summer position)

I have received between $15k-$20k/year from:

Emory
W&L
GMU
American
University of Wisconsin
Colorado
Temple

I have received $0 from:

Howard

I am currently on the waitlist at:

Cornell
University of Texas at Austin
Fordham
W&M

[BigZuck]

Doesn't seem real. Does anyone else think this is real? Help!

[thisonetime]

Doesn't seem real. Does anyone else think this is real? Help!

Why do you think I'm being dishonest?

[jbagelboy]

Assuming it is real (tacitly), I would give up the east coast thing, go to UIUC on full ride and gun hard for Chicago firms. At least your debt will not be burdensome

[thisonetime]

Assuming it is real (tacitly), I would give up the east coast thing, go to UIUC on full ride and gun hard for Chicago firms. At least your debt will not be burdensome

My locational preference hinges upon the fact that I am a single mom and I have family in Boston, Philly, and New York. UIUC does seem like a great option but moving to a new city with my little guy is anxiety inducing.

[BigZuck]

My bad. Missed the three most important letters. None seem aligned with your geographical preferences. Where do you have ties?

I don't hate jbagelboy's plan, but I would be leery of gunning for Chicago without ties. Hopefully going to school in Illinois would be enough?

[thisonetime]

My bad. Missed the three most important letters. None seem aligned with your geographical preferences. Where do you have ties?

I don't hate jbagelboy's plan, but I would be leery of gunning for Chicago without ties. Hopefully going to school in Illinois would be enough?

I have ties in Boston, Philly, New York and Cali.

[jbagelboy]

My bad. Missed the three most important letters. None seem aligned with your geographical preferences. Where do you have ties?

I don't hate jbagelboy's plan, but I would be leery of gunning for Chicago without ties. Hopefully going to school in Illinois would be enough?

I have ties in Boston, Philly, New York and Cali.

Ok -- but the schools you got into with reasonable scholarships in those locations don't give you a great chance at legal employment. Davis is falling apart & BLS/Cardozo are basically worst case scenarios. None of the other schools are worth the debt for OP w/ only $15-20K scholarships. I would say Fordham would be good for you if you got off the WL w/ good $$. UIUC is the only practical option IMO; don't mistake that for saying you are guaranteed a good job in Chicago, but you will have a fighting chance and not be SOL if you miss

[marcfj]

Full ride at Cardozo limits your financial risk and gets you a shot, if you do well, at NYC law of some type

[thisonetime]

Ok -- but the schools you got into with reasonable scholarships in those locations don't give you a great chance at legal employment. Davis is falling apart & BLS/Cardozo are basically worst case scenarios. None of the other schools are worth the debt for OP w/ only $15-20K scholarships. I would say Fordham would be good for you if you got off the WL w/ good $$. UIUC is the only practical option IMO; don't mistake that for saying you are guaranteed a good job in Chicago, but you will have a fighting chance and not be SOL if you miss

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Davis is falling apart"?

[jbagelboy]

Ok -- but the schools you got into with reasonable scholarships in those locations don't give you a great chance at legal employment. Davis is falling apart & BLS/Cardozo are basically worst case scenarios. None of the other schools are worth the debt for OP w/ only $15-20K scholarships. I would say Fordham would be good for you if you got off the WL w/ good $$. UIUC is the only practical option IMO; don't mistake that for saying you are guaranteed a good job in Chicago, but you will have a fighting chance and not be SOL if you miss

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Davis is falling apart"?

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=davis

this indicates ~60% of the class gets a legal job. Worse, 14.4% of those jobs are created arbitrarily by the school, and only ~12% are actually being employed in the private sector.

plus, Davis maintains a pretty horrible reputation in the SF/Bay area and almost none in LA. The jobs you could expect would be state level gov jobs (DA/PD) in Sacramento paying ~$45K/year, and this would be a good outcome; nearly 30% of the class comes out w/o a real job, and another 15% are most likely short term

[WokeUpInACar]

Did you not apply to BU/BC? They seem like they would be perfect options for you.

[thisonetime]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=davis

this indicates ~60% of the class gets a legal job. Worse, 14.4% of those jobs are created arbitrarily by the school, and only ~12% are actually being employed in the private sector.

plus, Davis maintains a pretty horrible reputation in the SF/Bay area and almost none in LA. The jobs you could expect would be state level gov jobs (DA/PD) in Sacramento paying ~$45K/year, and this would be a good outcome; nearly 30% of the class comes out w/o a real job, and another 15% are most likely short term

Thank you for elaborating.

Did you not apply to BU/BC? They seem like they would be perfect options for you.

I applied and was subsequently rejected.

[thisonetime]

Full ride at Cardozo limits your financial risk and gets you a shot, if you do well, at NYC law of some type

A large part of me feels like despite the low-financial risk, it would be a poor decision to attend Cardozo. I even considered attending Cardozo for a year and dropping out if I didn't end up in the top 10%. One year out of the job market wouldn't be terrible, would it? If I were child-less, I would go with UIUC with a few reservations...

I don't have any educational debt from undergrad so the idea of taking out a loan isn't the most frightening prospect, however, I do want a decent paying legal position upon graduation. I currently make 50k/year and I have a son to support so despite my desire to become an attorney, I'm not willing to do so if my only job opportunity is going to be doing doc-review earning less than I make now.

[jbagelboy]

Full ride at Cardozo limits your financial risk and gets you a shot, if you do well, at NYC law of some type

A large part of me feels like despite the low-financial risk, it would be a poor decision to attend Cardozo. I even considered attending Cardozo for a year and dropping out if I didn't end up in the top 10%. One year out of the job market wouldn't be terrible, would it? If I were child-less, I would go with UIUC with a few reservations...

I don't have any educational debt from undergrad so the idea of taking out a loan isn't the most frightening prospect, however, I do want a decent paying legal position upon graduation. I currently make 50k/year and I have a son to support so despite my desire to become an attorney, I'm not willing to do so if my only job opportunity is going to be doing doc-review earning less than I make now.

$50K/year is pretty solid ITE. You seem to have a pretty clear grasp of what you're getting into -- I would caution that law school might not be the best route right now if you aren't willing to move.

What are your reasons for wanting to become an attorney? are they based primarily on desired income? opportunity cost wise from a strictly financial perspective, given your current employment and school options, then I'm not sure its the optimal choice.

[Paul Campos]

Do not quit a $50K per year job to go to these schools.

[thisonetime]

$50K/year is pretty solid ITE. You seem to have a pretty clear grasp of what you're getting into-- I would caution that law school might not be the best route right now if you aren't willing to move.

What are your reasons for wanting to become an attorney? are they based primarily on desired income? opportunity cost wise from a strictly financial perspective, given your current employment and school options, then I'm not sure its the optimal choice.

I've thought about attending law school for over 8 years. I graduated college at 20--I'm now 28--and I've spent the last 8 years working as a paralegal, an actuary, an elementary teacher, and now I work as an analyst at an economic development non-profit. At 20, I wanted to go to law school because I this vague desire to help indigent populations but I decided against it when my pre-law advisor told me that the best I could hope for was a TTTT due to my shitty GPA. After gaining some work and life experience, my goals are now more precise. As I stated above, I would love to work for the SEC or an organization like the one I currently work at--although it seems like they only hire T14 grads. It would be foolish of me to say that money isn't important to me, I do need to make enough money to support myself and to provide for my family, but I'm not gunning for Biglaw.

[jbagelboy]

$50K/year is pretty solid ITE. You seem to have a pretty clear grasp of what you're getting into-- I would caution that law school might not be the best route right now if you aren't willing to move.

What are your reasons for wanting to become an attorney? are they based primarily on desired income? opportunity cost wise from a strictly financial perspective, given your current employment and school options, then I'm not sure its the optimal choice.

I've thought about attending law school for over 8 years. I graduated college at 20--I'm now 28--and I've spent the last 8 years working as a paralegal, an actuary, an elementary teacher, and now I work as an analyst at an economic development non-profit. At 20, I wanted to go to law school because I this vague desire to help indigent populations but I decided against it when my pre-law advisor told me that the best I could hope for was a TTTT due to my shitty GPA. After gaining some work and life experience, my goals are now more precise. As I stated above, I would love to work for the SEC or an organization like the one I currently work at--although it seems like they only hire T14 grads. It would be foolish of me to say that money isn't important to me, I do need to make enough money to support myself and to provide for my family, but I'm not gunning for Biglaw.

Sure, and you sound like an interesting person, except as you mentioned top gov jobs like SEC are even more competitive than private firm work. it's an even more abstract goal outside of HYS

[hephaestus]

Your goals honesty seem impossible for this school range. I would really consider not going.

[timbs4339]

It's going to be a hard choice, but depending on the stips Brooklyn or Cardozo are probably your best bet (what are the stips?). If you can work on the geographic restrictions- UIUC would be my choice.

You have to understand that it is considered a good outcome to get any position paying 50K out of those schools. The SEC (or DOJ/OCC/CFTC/FDIC) is just not going to happen out of law school (I don't even think the SEC has had an entry-level hiring program for the last few years). You'd have about a 5-10% chance of getting biglaw and maybe lateraling into a federal regulator after a few years. All the state regulators I know require a couple years biglaw experience. The good news is that the 40-60K expected salary, with COL debt, is not going to hamstring you for 20 years. So give it a shot.

The next question is whether you want to be a lawyer. By this I mean a real, honest to god, dealing with people's divorces, wills, firings, personal injury litigation, med mal cases, or misdemeanors lawyer. Because those are the kind of clients or matters you will end up doing out of those schools. If that doesn't sound interesting or rewarding to you, then you need to seriously rethink this whole law school idea.

[rad lulz]

Your goals honesty seem impossible for this school range. I would really consider not going.

[BigZuck]

If I had those career aspirations, that current job, that mouth to feed, and those were my options, I would not go to law school.

[justonemoregame]

calculating troll is calculating

[thisonetime]

It's going to be a hard choice, but depending on the stips Brooklyn or Cardozo are probably your best bet (what are the stips?). If you can work on the geographic restrictions- UIUC would be my choice.

You have to understand that it is considered a good outcome to get any position paying 50K out of those schools. The SEC (or DOJ/OCC/CFTC/FDIC) is just not going to happen out of law school (I don't even think the SEC has had an entry-level hiring program for the last few years). You'd have about a 5-10% chance of getting biglaw and maybe lateraling into a federal regulator after a few years. All the state regulators I know require a couple years biglaw experience. The good news is that the 40-60K expected salary, with COL debt, is not going to hamstring you for 20 years. So give it a shot.

The next question is whether you want to be a lawyer. By this I mean a real, honest to god, dealing with people's divorces, wills, firings, personal injury litigation, med mal cases, or misdemeanors lawyer. Because those are the kind of clients or matters you will end up doing out of those schools. If that doesn't sound interesting or rewarding to you, then you need to seriously rethink this whole law school idea.

Thank you for such a detailed response. No stips for Cardozo and top 80% at Brooklyn.

I understand that it's highly improbable that I will get an entry-level "BigGov" job with my current options. Even if I do get off the waitlist at Cornell or UT, it will still be a major challenge. My more "realistic" goals include doing transactional work for a non-profit or a law reform organization. I also understand that competition for these lower-paying legal positions are highly competitive, ITE.

I'm not sure if those responding are factoring in that I'm a URM when they're telling me my employment options will be bleak. Assuming that I perform well--huge assumption--I would have significantly more options than a similarly situated white person.

TL;DR: I do want to be a lawyer but my risk tolerance is fairly low. I don't want to hang my own shingle.

[BigZuck]

It's going to be a hard choice, but depending on the stips Brooklyn or Cardozo are probably your best bet (what are the stips?). If you can work on the geographic restrictions- UIUC would be my choice.

You have to understand that it is considered a good outcome to get any position paying 50K out of those schools. The SEC (or DOJ/OCC/CFTC/FDIC) is just not going to happen out of law school (I don't even think the SEC has had an entry-level hiring program for the last few years). You'd have about a 5-10% chance of getting biglaw and maybe lateraling into a federal regulator after a few years. All the state regulators I know require a couple years biglaw experience. The good news is that the 40-60K expected salary, with COL debt, is not going to hamstring you for 20 years. So give it a shot.

The next question is whether you want to be a lawyer. By this I mean a real, honest to god, dealing with people's divorces, wills, firings, personal injury litigation, med mal cases, or misdemeanors lawyer. Because those are the kind of clients or matters you will end up doing out of those schools. If that doesn't sound interesting or rewarding to you, then you need to seriously rethink this whole law school idea.

Thank you for such a detailed response. No stips for Cardozo and top 80% at Brooklyn.

I understand that it's highly improbable that I will get an entry-level "BigGov" job with my current options. Even if I do get off the waitlist at Cornell or UT, it will still be a major challenge. My more "realistic" goals include doing transactional work for a non-profit or a law reform organization. I also understand that competition for these lower-paying legal positions are highly competitive, ITE.

I'm not sure if those responding are factoring in that I'm a URM when they're telling me my employment options will be bleak. Assuming that I perform well--huge assumption--I would have significantly more options than a similarly situated white person.

TL;DR: I do want to be a lawyer but my risk tolerance is fairly low. I don't want to hang my own shingle.

Ugh

Eta: please think about the implications for your child in all of this. You almost certainly will end up unemployed or working small (some call it shit) law out of these schools.