Georgetown (Part Time) vs George Washington (Full Time w/$$) Forum

JurisDoctorSeuss · Post by **JurisDoctorSeuss** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:48 pm

1) My numbers are 164 LSAT (1 attempt) w/ a 3.83 GPA

2) George Washington has offered 20K a year in merit scholarship plus and additional 13K in financial aid grant money.
So, I could be getting about 99K over the three years bring down the COA to about $135,000 + interest.

The COA Georgetown's PT program would be approximately $60,000 per year, for four years, plus interest. So $240,000 + interest. However, I have heard that Georgetown gives students the opportunity to work for the school which reduces tuition costs after a year. Moreover, Georgetown has a strong LRAP program.

3) I am uncertain as to what career path I'd like to take, whether it be public interest or private, but I would like to study law because I would like to work in a field that allows me to utilize critical thinking skills. I have worked construction for several years, and I have an undergraduate degree in philosophy. I am from Pennsylvania and would like to have the option to come back to PA after graduation to work if possible. Although, I would be happy to work in the DC area as well.

4) Retaking is off the board due to a host of reasons, and I am dead-set on attending law school in the fall.

Does anyone have any advice, or would anyone like to weigh in on my options?

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:51 pm

Both schools are too expensive but gun to your head, GW. GULC is absolutely out. You hear me? Out! That would be lunacy and you and I both know you're not a lunatic.

In b4 "retake or don't go" (which is actually the correct answer, just FYI)

tabula rasa · Post by **tabula rasa** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:52 pm

JurisDoctorSeuss wrote:Does anyone have any advice, or would anyone like to way in on my options?

Retaking is the weigh to go.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:53 pm

The more I think of this the more pissed I get. Trying to lure in lazy reverse splitters to pay 75K a year for 4 years? Georgetown should be shut down, that's criminal.

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:58 pm

I completely agree with Zuck. Retake is TCR. Both are way over paying .GW @ 135k will probably **** you over much less than GULC at 300k.

PRgradBYU · Post by **PRgradBYU** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:58 pm

Retake > GW >>> GULC

whosonfirst · Post by **whosonfirst** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:00 pm

tabula rasa wrote:
JurisDoctorSeuss wrote:Does anyone have any advice, or would anyone like to way in on my options?
Retaking is the weigh to go.

Also, all schools will let you do some kind of work-study to help with bills after the first year (which in your case might be closer to two years because it's part-time). GW if you have to but retake is TCR. You're wasting a great GPA.

Eberry · Post by **Eberry** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:01 pm

JurisDoctorSeuss wrote:4) Retaking is off the board due to a host of reasons, and I am dead-set on attending law school in the fall.

What are these reasons?

JurisDoctorSeuss · Post by **JurisDoctorSeuss** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:02 pm

I just looked at the aid offer, and I had miscalculated the cost for Georgetown. It is $60,000 per year, not $75,000. Still a fortune. I'm also curious to know what the success rate is for transfers to schools in the top 7 from GW. If possible, I would love to transfer up to Penn after 1L and I wonder what sort of success one would have to have as a 1L at Georgetown (PT) and GW (FT) to have a good shot at transferring.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:04 pm

If you want to go to Penn, retake the LSAT.

shifty_eyed · Post by **shifty_eyed** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:10 pm

JurisDoctorSeuss wrote:I just looked at the aid offer, and I had miscalculated the cost for Georgetown. It is $60,000 per year, not $75,000. Still a fortune. I'm also curious to know what the success rate is for transfers to schools in the top 7 from GW. If possible, I would love to transfer up to Penn after 1L and I wonder what sort of success one would have to have as a 1L at Georgetown (PT) and GW (FT) to have a good shot at transferring.

Easier to just retake the LSAT.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:11 pm

Why are people so confident they can be in the top 1-5% of a law school class filled with presumably smart people while also being subject to the sometimes arbitrary nature of law school grading but don't think they can score in the top 1-5% of a learnable standardized test against a huge pool of people that are almost certainly less driven (and probably less intelligent) on average than that found at a law school?

Plus you earn money by getting high LSAT scores, transferring up just gives you the privilege of paying more money (usually).

shifty_eyed · Post by **shifty_eyed** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:15 pm

BigZuck wrote:Why are people so confident they can be in the top 1-5% of a law school class filled with presumably smart people while also being subject to the sometimes arbitrary nature of law school grading but don't think they can score in the top 1-5% of a learnable standardized test against a huge pool of people that are almost certainly less driven (and probably less intelligent) on average than that found at a law school?

Plus you earn money by getting high LSAT scores, transferring up just gives you the privilege of paying more money (usually).

Because they have no idea what a law school exam is like and assume it's like undergrad. Whereas they do know what the LSAT is like and decide it's too much work. Especially since reverse splitters don't NEED a good LSAT like splitters do.

If I had a 3.8 I would retake my way to H or CCN with $$.

JurisDoctorSeuss · Post by **JurisDoctorSeuss** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:16 pm

Eberry: I am currently living with my parents. I still have $17,000 debt from undergrad. My parents will not support me in the decision to retake. And, without their support I am kind of fucked. The only long term job option I have available at the moment is making $10 an hour working construction, which requires me to work 6 days a week and isn't conducive to LSAT study. Maybe I'm just being a big bitch and should move out, find a job, and work to support myself, but I have too much pride to continue doing menial labor for table scraps. I'd be happy making $50,000 a year as a public defender if it meant I wouldn't be forced to work for a boss who threw me into less than satisfactory working conditions as if I were disposable. Honestly, I've just become somewhat depressed at my situation and would be happy to start afresh at law school with at least SOME potential for new opportunity.

But, I toss my 2 cents into the forum for consideration. Please, discuss.

shifty_eyed · Post by **shifty_eyed** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:19 pm

JurisDoctorSeuss wrote:Eberry: I am currently living with my parents. I still have $17,000 debt from undergrad. My parents will not support me in the decision to retake. And, without their support I am kind of fucked.

FUCKING BOOMERS

CaptainLeela · Post by **CaptainLeela** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:20 pm

Welcome to TLS

JurisDoctorSeuss · Post by **JurisDoctorSeuss** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:24 pm

In addition: I have already taken every practice test minus the December test. I was practicing in the mid-170, even scoring a couple of 180s by the end of September. However, during the October test I decided against taking my adderall on a day I had minimal sleep (3 hours). I got something in my eye during the reading comp, which blurred my vision in one eye causing me to underperform, and yada yada yada... I really should be retaking. Maybe what I need to do is just break free from my current restraints, which are my living situation and relationships that seem to be binding me to a close-minded perspective, not considering a retake as a viable option. I just don't know, though.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:27 pm

Your parents saddled you with debt and are now trying to hitch you up to more? They really want to ruin your financial future like that? Not cool.

Time to cut the umbilical cord. Move to a cheap cost of living area, work a 9-5 and study your butt off. I make $14 a hour in a crap job in Texas and life is good. I was able to afford a nice apartment and plenty of time for LSAT studying, hanging out with friends, etc. and enough money to eat and drink well and have a decent social life. I wouldn't want to live with such crappy pay forever but for a couple of years it was fine.

Law school isn't the solution to your problems, it will almost certainly just compound them.

JurisDoctorSeuss · Post by **JurisDoctorSeuss** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:28 pm

Leela: What was your initial score and what did you bump it up to? I mean, sometimes a nice kick in the ass is the exact kind of support people need (myself in particular). I really appreciate your willingness to share. How do you like Duke?

y2zipper · Post by **y2zipper** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:29 pm

I sympathize, tbh. My parents gave me the "you're a special snowflake" lecture when I told them I was retaking, and I work the minimum wage job that a bachelor's apparently gets you these days. They've come around since they see how much I hate studying for this test but put the work in anyway. It's tough because the things that they taught our generation growing up literally don't apply to the world anymore so they can't advise us correctly on education/careers.

I also showed them the LST stats for my local TTT.

You have to find a way to retake if you want to go. You owe it to yourself to maximize your options before rolling the dice.

NYstate · Post by **NYstate** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:33 pm

JurisDoctorSeuss wrote:In addition: I have already taken every practice test minus the December test. I was practicing in the mid-170, even scoring a couple of 180s by the end of September. However, during the October test I decided against taking my adderall on a day I had minimal sleep (3 hours). I got something in my eye during the reading comp, which blurred my vision in one eye causing me to underperform, and yada yada yada... I really should be retaking. Maybe what I need to do is just break free from my current restraints, which are my living situation and relationships that seem to be binding me to a close-minded perspective, not considering a retake as a viable option. I just don't know, though.

What you need is a kick in the ass. Why would you not try to get into the best school possible with the best scholarship possible? I am not exaggerating in the least by saying this decision will impact your entire professional life, including what jobs you might be able to get, and your personal life, based on the enormous amount of debt you will have hanging over your head.

Tell your parents that if you retake you might have a chance at Harvard. Come up with a plan on how you wil live the next year and what you are going to do. Add in some activities that might help admission if possible. Show them you are very committed to this plan.

One more thing: if you honestly believe that law means you will always have great working conditions you are wrong. One example: you can easily end up not practicing law at all and back waitressing.

You seems as naive as your parents about the employment chances for lawyers.

shifty_eyed · Post by **shifty_eyed** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:34 pm

JurisDoctorSeuss wrote:In addition: I have already taken every practice test minus the December test. I was practicing in the mid-170, even scoring a couple of 180s by the end of September. However, during the October test I decided against taking my adderall on a day I had minimal sleep (3 hours). I got something in my eye during the reading comp, which blurred my vision in one eye causing me to underperform, and yada yada yada... I really should be retaking. Maybe what I need to do is just break free from my current restraints, which are my living situation and relationships that seem to be binding me to a close-minded perspective, not considering a retake as a viable option. I just don't know, though.

YOU HAVE TO RETAKE. If you had taken every practice test and were scoring in the mid 160s, ok, maybe you maxed out your potential. But if you are getting 180s on PTs, you owe it to yourself.

CaptainLeela · Post by **CaptainLeela** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:38 pm

Welcome to TLS

JurisDoctorSeuss · Post by **JurisDoctorSeuss** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:41 pm

This is starting to feel live an intervention. But I DESPERATELY need it! I really don't have many people to confide in about this issue. I was talked down from retaking in December because of cost consideration, but burdening myself with $130,000 worth of debt after law school just seems to be kicking the can down the road. It would likely cost a few grand to undergo the reapplication process, but it would seem to me to be the better option if I could get into a better school or receive more scholarship money.

What advice might you, the community, have for someone who has exhausted nearly all of the practice tests. I haven't seen the practice tests in over 6 months, so the material would be somewhat fresh. Would retaking in October be my best option after putting in 500+ hours of LSAT study over the summer?

PRgradBYU · Post by **PRgradBYU** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:42 pm

BigZuck wrote:Why are people so confident they can be in the top 1-5% of a law school class filled with presumably smart people while also being subject to the sometimes arbitrary nature of law school grading but don't think they can score in the top 1-5% of a learnable standardized test against a huge pool of people that are almost certainly less driven (and probably less intelligent) on average than that found at a law school?

I'll never understand that either. It's laughable, really.