NYU (sticker) vs. Mich ($$) for California Forum

[megagnarley]

Landscape: Would love to get back to California to practice biglaw in LA. Very strong LA ties.

Deciding between mich with $67.5k over 3 years and NYU at sticker.

Given I want to work in CA not sure the NYU boost is worth $67.5 more, but would love some input.

Already deposited at Mich and love the school but would make the jump if it makes sense.

[jbagelboy]

Landscape: Would love to get back to California to practice biglaw in LA. Very strong LA ties.

Deciding between mich with $67.5k over 3 years and NYU at sticker.

Given I want to work in CA not sure the NYU boost is worth $67.5 more, but would love some input.

Already deposited at Mich and love the school but would make the jump if it makes sense.

you just got off the WL at NYU right? -- I would wait and see what their aid offer is bfore making this thread

I got 67.5K at Mich and wound up with $50K at NYU. so you will definitely get something.

at these numbers I'd go to Michigan but again, hardly relevant w/o your nyu offer

[megagnarley]

Landscape: Would love to get back to California to practice biglaw in LA. Very strong LA ties.

Deciding between mich with $67.5k over 3 years and NYU at sticker.

Given I want to work in CA not sure the NYU boost is worth $67.5 more, but would love some input.

Already deposited at Mich and love the school but would make the jump if it makes sense.

you just got off the WL at NYU right? -- I would wait and see what their aid offer is bfore making this thread

I got 67.5K at Mich and wound up with $50K at NYU. so you will definitely get something.

at these numbers I'd go to Michigan but again, hardly relevant w/o your nyu offer

Valid. Good to know. Freeze this thing. I'll bring it back later.

[dolfan17]

Landscape: Would love to get back to California to practice biglaw in LA. Very strong LA ties.

Deciding between mich with $67.5k over 3 years and NYU at sticker.

Given I want to work in CA not sure the NYU boost is worth $67.5 more, but would love some input.

Already deposited at Mich and love the school but would make the jump if it makes sense.

you just got off the WL at NYU right? -- I would wait and see what their aid offer is bfore making this thread

I got 67.5K at Mich and wound up with $50K at NYU. so you will definitely get something.

at these numbers I'd go to Michigan but again, hardly relevant w/o your nyu offer

Not necessarily true, I originally got 67.5 at Michigan and I got $0 at NYU. I managed to negotiate up to $120k at Michigan and NYU still wouldn't give me anything

[jbagelboy]

Landscape: Would love to get back to California to practice biglaw in LA. Very strong LA ties.

Deciding between mich with $67.5k over 3 years and NYU at sticker.

Given I want to work in CA not sure the NYU boost is worth $67.5 more, but would love some input.

Already deposited at Mich and love the school but would make the jump if it makes sense.

you just got off the WL at NYU right? -- I would wait and see what their aid offer is bfore making this thread

I got 67.5K at Mich and wound up with $50K at NYU. so you will definitely get something.

at these numbers I'd go to Michigan but again, hardly relevant w/o your nyu offer

Not necessarily true, I originally got 67.5 at Michigan and I got $0 at NYU. I managed to negotiate up to $120k at Michigan and NYU still wouldn't give me anything

I'm not saying its guaranteed. I'm saying its premature, since many, many others DID get $ off the WL at NYU.

[fallingup]

It's irrelevant what "many others" got, unless they got the $$ with megagnarley's stats

[JamMasterJ]

M unless you get at least 15/15/7.5 at NYU

[beepboopbeep]

It's irrelevant what "many others" got, unless they got the $$ with megagnarley's stats

Even then, there seems to be some marginal need-based component to NYU's aid.

We should probably have a few more pages of speculation as to what megagnarley's NYU aid package will be, though, for sure.

[FlightoftheEarls]

M unless you get at least 15/15/7.5 at NYU

NYU has no placement advantage over Michigan outside of NYC -- employers in California do not treat NYU students the same way firms with 80-member summer classes in NYC do. Despite Michigan's smaller class size than NYU, Michigan actually has nearly 600 more alumni in California because it has historically placed rather well in California, especially in Los Angeles.

A scholarship of $37.5k from NYU means it is still approximately $60k more expensive than Michigan with COA accounted for. That puts it somewhere in the $235,000-240,000 range without even considering the interest that will accrue on your debt.

[megagnarley]

M unless you get at least 15/15/7.5 at NYU

NYU has no placement advantage over Michigan outside of NYC -- employers in California do not treat NYU students the same way firms with 80-member summer classes in NYC do. Despite Michigan's smaller class size than NYU, Michigan actually has nearly 600 more alumni in California because it has historically placed rather well in California, especially in Los Angeles.

A scholarship of $37.5k from NYU means it is still approximately $60k more expensive than Michigan with COA accounted for. That puts it somewhere in the $235,000-240,000 range without even considering the interest that will accrue on your debt.

Eye opening.

I'd heard that at many LA firms the hiring partners viewed the schools as basically HYS-CCN-Rest of T14 in regards to how deep they'd go into a class...but if that's not the case than this changes quite a bit. Meaning the only advantage NYU has is the NY safety net.

Don't mean to keep speculative thread alive. Just found that interesting.

[kaiser]

M unless you get at least 15/15/7.5 at NYU

NYU has no placement advantage over Michigan outside of NYC -- employers in California do not treat NYU students the same way firms with 80-member summer classes in NYC do. Despite Michigan's smaller class size than NYU, Michigan actually has nearly 600 more alumni in California because it has historically placed rather well in California, especially in Los Angeles.

A scholarship of $37.5k from NYU means it is still approximately $60k more expensive than Michigan with COA accounted for. That puts it somewhere in the $235,000-240,000 range without even considering the interest that will accrue on your debt.

Look up the number of NYU students in CA big firm offices, and see if that actually holds up. Someone made that same claim as to Duke (i.e. in CA, NYU and Duke would be treated the same). I then spent some time looking at NYU vs. Duke placement in a large bunch of CA big firm offices, and it was clear that NYU crushed Duke on CA placement (far more than the disparity in class size would explain).

[Borg]

Don't count on anything from NYU. I had named scholarship offers and/or half to full rides from Virginia, Penn, Duke, Chicago, and Northwestern, but the New York schools didn't budge from their initial lower offers. I didn't expect HYS to move and I was right. May depend on your financial situation though.

[rickgrimes69]

M unless you get at least 15/15/7.5 at NYU

NYU has no placement advantage over Michigan outside of NYC -- employers in California do not treat NYU students the same way firms with 80-member summer classes in NYC do. Despite Michigan's smaller class size than NYU, Michigan actually has nearly 600 more alumni in California because it has historically placed rather well in California, especially in Los Angeles.

A scholarship of $37.5k from NYU means it is still approximately $60k more expensive than Michigan with COA accounted for. That puts it somewhere in the $235,000-240,000 range without even considering the interest that will accrue on your debt.

Look up the number of NYU students in CA big firm offices, and see if that actually holds up. Someone made that same claim as to Duke (i.e. in CA, NYU and Duke would be treated the same). I then spent some time looking at NYU vs. Duke placement in a large bunch of CA big firm offices, and it was clear that NYU crushed Duke on CA placement (far more than the disparity in class size would explain).

This claim needs to end. Placement =/= placement ability. Just because there are more NYU grads in CA does not mean NYU places better in CA. CA employers will see all three schools as peers (as will most of the nation), and any advantage NYU might have in the CA market is exceedingly marginal and not worth paying for. You want to argue the merits of having a larger alumni base, that's fine - but don't pretend like the boost is because employers see NYU as substantially "better" than any other school in the lower T14.

[kaiser]

M unless you get at least 15/15/7.5 at NYU

NYU has no placement advantage over Michigan outside of NYC -- employers in California do not treat NYU students the same way firms with 80-member summer classes in NYC do. Despite Michigan's smaller class size than NYU, Michigan actually has nearly 600 more alumni in California because it has historically placed rather well in California, especially in Los Angeles.

A scholarship of $37.5k from NYU means it is still approximately $60k more expensive than Michigan with COA accounted for. That puts it somewhere in the $235,000-240,000 range without even considering the interest that will accrue on your debt.

Look up the number of NYU students in CA big firm offices, and see if that actually holds up. Someone made that same claim as to Duke (i.e. in CA, NYU and Duke would be treated the same). I then spent some time looking at NYU vs. Duke placement in a large bunch of CA big firm offices, and it was clear that NYU crushed Duke on CA placement (far more than the disparity in class size would explain).

This claim needs to end. Placement =/= placement ability. Just because there are more NYU grads in CA does not mean NYU places better in CA. CA employers will see all three schools as peers (as will most of the nation), and any advantage NYU might have in the CA market is exceedingly marginal and not worth paying for. You want to argue the merits of having a larger alumni base, that's fine - but don't pretend like the boost is because employers see NYU as substantially "better" than any other school in the lower T14.

If I actually showed you the comparison of NYU vs. Duke in CA big firms, it would be exceedingly clear that they are not treated as peer schools and that the difference is far from marginal. Michigan is not Duke, obviously. Michigan, by virtue of its location tends to place students in various locations, including CA, so I would imagine the difference wouldn't be quite as big as it was between NYU & Duke. But having said that, the numbers simply don't support a claim that CA big firms doesn't view NYU any differently than lower T-14 schools.

[kaiser]

Here were the numbers I found as between NYU and Duke. The first 6 firms are CA-based firms, and then I did 2 random searches of non-CA based firms with CA offices. All figures are based solely on CA offices:

Quinn Emanuel: 21 NYU, 3 Duke
Gibson Dunn: 22 NYU, 9 Duke
Paul Hastings: 13 NYU, 3 Duke
Latham: 16 NYU, 13 Duke
O Melvaney: 12 NYU, 5 Duke
MoFo: 16 NYU, 4 Duke
Orrick: 12 NYU, 2 Duke
Skadden: 14 NYU, 0 Duke
Sidley: 16 NYU, 0 Duke

Total: NYU 142, Duke 39


Again, Duke is not Michigan. I''m sure Michigan has much better CA placement than Duke. I totally get that. But to say that NYU would be treated the same as any other lower T14 does not make sense when considering the numbers.

[Borg]

If I actually showed you the comparison of NYU vs. Duke in CA big firms, it would be exceedingly clear that they are not treated as peer schools and that the difference is far from marginal. Michigan is not Duke, obviously. Michigan, by virtue of its location tends to place students in various locations, including CA, so I would imagine the difference wouldn't be quite as big as it was between NYU & Duke. But having said that, the numbers simply don't support a claim that CA big firms doesn't view NYU any differently than lower T-14 schools.

NYU always gets beat up on TLS because OMG ITZ NOT AN IVY WHATZ IT DOING IN T6 IT SHOULD BE PENN OR WE CALL IT T7. People are irrational.

[worldtraveler]

Here were the numbers I found as between NYU and Duke. The first 6 firms are CA-based firms, and then I did 2 random searches of non-CA based firms with CA offices. All figures are based solely on CA offices:

Quinn Emanuel: 21 NYU, 3 Duke
Gibson Dunn: 22 NYU, 9 Duke
Paul Hastings: 13 NYU, 3 Duke
Latham: 16 NYU, 13 Duke
O Melvaney: 12 NYU, 5 Duke
MoFo: 16 NYU, 4 Duke
Orrick: 12 NYU, 2 Duke
Skadden: NYU 14, 0 Duke
Sidley: NYU 16, 0 Duke

Total: NYU 142, Duke 39


Again, Duke is not Michigan. I''m sure Michigan has much better CA placement than Duke. I totally get that. But to say that NYU would be treated the same as any other lower T14 does not make sense when considering the numbers.

Isn't NYU's class bigger than Duke's?

[kaiser]

Here were the numbers I found as between NYU and Duke. The first 6 firms are CA-based firms, and then I did 2 random searches of non-CA based firms with CA offices. All figures are based solely on CA offices:

Quinn Emanuel: 21 NYU, 3 Duke
Gibson Dunn: 22 NYU, 9 Duke
Paul Hastings: 13 NYU, 3 Duke
Latham: 16 NYU, 13 Duke
O Melvaney: 12 NYU, 5 Duke
MoFo: 16 NYU, 4 Duke
Orrick: 12 NYU, 2 Duke
Skadden: NYU 14, 0 Duke
Sidley: NYU 16, 0 Duke

Total: NYU 142, Duke 39


Again, Duke is not Michigan. I''m sure Michigan has much better CA placement than Duke. I totally get that. But to say that NYU would be treated the same as any other lower T14 does not make sense when considering the numbers.

Isn't NYU's class bigger than Duke's?

Yes, it is a little over twice as big. But, as the numbers show, its far from a 2:1 ratio, or anything close to it. Thus, the disparity in class size does not explain the large disparity in representation in those firms.

[senorhosh]

M unless you get at least 15/15/7.5 at NYU

NYU has no placement advantage over Michigan outside of NYC -- employers in California do not treat NYU students the same way firms with 80-member summer classes in NYC do. Despite Michigan's smaller class size than NYU, Michigan actually has nearly 600 more alumni in California because it has historically placed rather well in California, especially in Los Angeles.

A scholarship of $37.5k from NYU means it is still approximately $60k more expensive than Michigan with COA accounted for. That puts it somewhere in the $235,000-240,000 range without even considering the interest that will accrue on your debt.

The first part is wrong.
I don't know where you got your figures.

[fallingup]

Again, Duke is not Michigan. I''m sure Michigan has much better CA placement than Duke. I totally get that.

I would like to see more information about this.

[BigZuck]

OP, of these choices I vote NU with 90K

But seriously, any chance you can get that back? Seemed like your best option although I haven't crunched the numbers to see how much cheaper that would be than Michigan. Maybe not at all when COL is factored in?

[rickgrimes69]

If I actually showed you the comparison of NYU vs. Duke in CA big firms, it would be exceedingly clear that they are not treated as peer schools and that the difference is far from marginal. Michigan is not Duke, obviously. Michigan, by virtue of its location tends to place students in various locations, including CA, so I would imagine the difference wouldn't be quite as big as it was between NYU & Duke. But having said that, the numbers simply don't support a claim that CA big firms doesn't view NYU any differently than lower T-14 schools.

whoosh

First of all, NYU's class size is over twice as large, meaning you've got over twice as many idiots picking NYU because of rank alone and then bringing it back to CA.

Second, think about the kind of people who choose Duke and the kind of people who choose NYU. Who do you think is more likely to be attracted to working in CA? Self-selection plays a huge role, and Duke is largely NYC / DC / Southern market focused. I'll bet there are a lot more Duke grads working in the South than NYU grads, but I'm not about to claim that Southern markets think Duke is a better school.

[JamMasterJ]

It's irrelevant what "many others" got, unless they got the $$ with megagnarley's stats

Even then, there seems to be some marginal need-based component to NYU's aid.

We should probably have a few more pages of speculation as to what megagnarley's NYU aid package will be, though, for sure.

Even if we accept this premise, having NY as an almost sure thing backup versus having not as solid a backup plan in the event that OP strikes out in CA is worth the price difference. In that event, he works in NY for two years and transfers/laterals to CA. Now, if OP has literally zero willingness to work in NY at all, that's a different scenario, but no one should be taking out 150K + if they're not willing to work in NY for at least a couple years if needed.


Also, our LRAP's better.

[kaiser]

If I actually showed you the comparison of NYU vs. Duke in CA big firms, it would be exceedingly clear that they are not treated as peer schools and that the difference is far from marginal. Michigan is not Duke, obviously. Michigan, by virtue of its location tends to place students in various locations, including CA, so I would imagine the difference wouldn't be quite as big as it was between NYU & Duke. But having said that, the numbers simply don't support a claim that CA big firms doesn't view NYU any differently than lower T-14 schools.

whoosh

First of all, NYU's class size is over twice as large, meaning you've got over twice as many idiots picking NYU because of rank alone and then bringing it back to CA.

Second, think about the kind of people who choose Duke and the kind of people who choose NYU. Who do you think is more likely to be attracted to working in CA? Self-selection plays a huge role, and Duke is largely NYC / DC / Southern market focused. I'll bet there are a lot more Duke grads working in the South than NYU grads, but I'm not about to claim that Southern markets think Duke is a better school.

As to your first point, I already addressed it in another post. NyU is just over twice the size of Michigan. So the disparity in the stats is nowhere close to accounted for. Sure, if it were about a 2:1 ratio or a bit higher, then differing class size largely explains it. But, as you can see from the sample, its far more than a 2:1 ratio. As to the "idiots who only pick NYU for rank", well, that gem doesn't really dignify a response.

As to the second argument, that's def a valid point. But you would be amazed how much familiarity ends up translating to quality in the minds of employers. Look how many local employers overinflate the quality of their local state school just because they know so much about it after yeara from recruiting from there. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a recruiter in Nashvile or Charlotte did think Duke is the better school simply gicen their familiarity with its grads.

[Borg]

If I actually showed you the comparison of NYU vs. Duke in CA big firms, it would be exceedingly clear that they are not treated as peer schools and that the difference is far from marginal. Michigan is not Duke, obviously. Michigan, by virtue of its location tends to place students in various locations, including CA, so I would imagine the difference wouldn't be quite as big as it was between NYU & Duke. But having said that, the numbers simply don't support a claim that CA big firms doesn't view NYU any differently than lower T-14 schools.

whoosh

First of all, NYU's class size is over twice as large, meaning you've got over twice as many idiots picking NYU because of rank alone and then bringing it back to CA.

Second, think about the kind of people who choose Duke and the kind of people who choose NYU. Who do you think is more likely to be attracted to working in CA? Self-selection plays a huge role, and Duke is largely NYC / DC / Southern market focused. I'll bet there are a lot more Duke grads working in the South than NYU grads, but I'm not about to claim that Southern markets think Duke is a better school.

LOL at (1) rank alone, as if NYU has nothing else going for it than some unexplainable seat as 6th in the country (recently 5th or even 4th as well) and (2) that people are "choosing" between Duke and NYU. I think the kind of people who "choose" Duke are the ones who didn't get into NYU.

I'm not at NYU, but I will admit that it was in the running against my current school and I mainly turned it down because I didn't like the business school. It's hilarious how insecure people are about their schools.