SIU vs. DePaul Forum

[Younks]

Hey everyone,

I apologize in advance if this comes across as a bit rambling, but here goes.

I have a 2.94 UGPA and 158 LSAT (retaking in June, currently at 161 or so, aiming for 175). If I get at least a 160, I will be guaranteed a full ride at SIU with top 45% stip. I have also been admitted to DePaul with a 25k a year scholly, no stips. I'm currently waitlisted at UIUC and Kent.

Anyway,

I'm interested in some new arguments for either side of Minimize Debt (with connections) or Maximize Prestige.

And.... go!

[chill]

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[grandmastafunkz]

Chill is absolutely right. Sit out this cycle and knock the socks off of the October LSAT. It could only lead to better offers.

[TheNextAmendment]

I love the TLS attitude of "sit out and get high 170s bro its easy". I agree retaking is his best option, but let's at least be realistic here

[trapster]

When you say "with connections," I assume you're talking about SIU and the southern IL area? If so, sit out the cycle, bring that LSAT up, and do UIUC. That's your best option by a mile.

Otherwise, have the SIU stip removed so that you have actually have a guaranteed full ride for all three years. If all you're aiming for is staying in southern IL, then SIU for free is fine (even though UIUC would be better).

Do not go to DePaul at that price, and do not consider Kent if you get off the WL. I've been at DePaul/Kent/Loyola for the past three years, and I promise you that it's not worth anything close to that price. Even with $75k, you're still going to graduate with north of $100k in debt and, more likely than not, no job. Bad idea.

[PRgradBYU]

Don't settle for either of these schools.

[Snowboarder1588]

I love the TLS attitude of "sit out and get high 170s bro its easy". I agree retaking is his best option, but let's at least be realistic here

+100...sometimes there are things in life that don't allow someone to get 170+. Potential, test taking abilities, work and life issues (i.e. not enough time to study). Not everyone is a fresh college graduate living at home with nothing to do but study for the LSAT. With that said, you should study as hard as you can and use up all 3 tries before you call it quits on the LSAT. If you can get a full scholarship then that is a great deal. Try to get that stip fixed though so that you can guarantee it for the 3 years. Good Luck.

[romothesavior]

When you say "with connections," I assume you're talking about SIU and the southern IL area? If so, sit out the cycle, bring that LSAT up, and do UIUC. That's your best option by a mile.

Otherwise, have the SIU stip removed so that you have actually have a guaranteed full ride for all three years. If all you're aiming for is staying in southern IL, then SIU for free is fine (even though UIUC would be better).

Do not go to DePaul at that price, and do not consider Kent if you get off the WL. I've been at DePaul/Kent/Loyola for the past three years, and I promise you that it's not worth anything close to that price. Even with $75k, you're still going to graduate with north of $100k in debt and, more likely than not, no job. Bad idea.

As a fellow Illinoisan, +1 to all of this.

Retake>>>SIU with the stip removed>>>>>>>>>>>>>Taking on debt at any of the Chicago schools below Chicago/Northwestern (none of them are prestigious btw).

[Younks]

I'm inclined toward just going to Southern and starting my own firm. I have little interest cwhoreporate law, and would ideally start my own firm in a few years.

To those I haven't alienated, how would you recommend getting the SIU stip removed? My connection is a former gubernatorial candidate who runs his own firm, so I'm pretty sure I can get out of there as a competent lawyer with little debt (maybe under 20k just for cost of living).

[romothesavior]

I'm inclined toward just going to Southern and starting my own firm. I have little interest cwhoreporate law, and would ideally start my own firm in a few years.

To those I haven't alienated, how would you recommend getting the SIU stip removed? My connection is a former gubernatorial candidate who runs his own firm, so I'm pretty sure I can get out of there as a competent lawyer with little debt (maybe under 20k just for cost of living).

I don't think you've "alienated" anyone here. You should email them and tell them that you will go if they remove the stipulation. That stipulation is ridiculous.

What kind of law do you want to do?

[Tekrul]

This could be totally off base but I thought I'd throw a comment in.

It seemed like you had an apologetic (or perhaps passively retaliatory) thing going on by addressing the people you haven't alienated, when in fact you haven't said anything outside of polite or garnered any ill-will ITT. Also, no-one really had any comments directed at you that you should have taken as offense or otherwise concluded as having alienated. Coming from an individual who is ultra-sensitive as well, you will need to internalize and develop a thick skin for yourself in preparation for a career in law unless you are planning to enter a field of law that is characterized by work that this nature will not adversely affect.

There was a really cool list of fields, I think published by the ABA, with a brief description of the law involved and the kind of temperament it was suited for with regards to the type of client interaction and nature of work it demanded. I'll see if I can't dig that up for you.

I'm off off base

[mattviphky]

Hey everyone,

I apologize in advance if this comes across as a bit rambling, but here goes.

I have a 2.94 UGPA and 158 LSAT (retaking in June, currently at 161 or so, aiming for 175). If I get at least a 160, I will be guaranteed a full ride at SIU with top 45% stip. I have also been admitted to DePaul with a 25k a year scholly, no stips. I'm currently waitlisted at UIUC and Kent.

Anyway,

I'm interested in some new arguments for either side of Minimize Debt (with connections) or Maximize Prestige.

And.... go!

I was in a similar spot 2 years ago. I sat out a year, studied and retook the LSAT. I just wrapped up my 1L at UIUC. If you want to be in Southern Illinois, you should try to kill the LSAT and get a full ride to SIU, because with your GPA, you might only get a 25% scholarship to UIUC, and I just don't think 135k debt from UIUC is better than 35k debt from SIU for someone who wants to do small law in So Ill. But I wouldn't even think about that now. The only thing that should be on your mind is killing the LSAT. If you aim for a retake in October, and study your ass off, then you might end up with a 161, or a 171. Once that happens, then you can address scholarships, schools, etc. Right now, just focus on the LSAT and doing the very best you can. Btw, aim high

[Steve2207]

Did you ask SIU to remove the stipulation? I sent a simple e-mail expressing concern with their 2.8 GPA stip and they removed mine! I should clarify that I was NOT offered a free ride scholarship though, so they may not be as ready to remove the stipulation for you. Still, after factoring in my GI Bill it will be close to free. (Good luck on the retake, I will be re-writing myself in June)

[Ded Precedent]

Don't go to Loyola, Depaul, Kent or John Marshall without a full ride without stipulations. Actually don't go to John Marshall at all. SIU with a full ride is a good choice as long as you're ok with staying in Southern Illinois for the rest of your life.

[timbs4339]

TTThat sTTTip is TTTerrible.

If you get it removed Southern at full isn't a terrible choice. But you can only go up with a retake.

[Younks]

The admissions office is refusing to remove the stip, however, I also just was admitted to Kent with 20k/yr no stip. I'm thinking of retaking in June (I will for sure), and trying to transfer to the T14 (Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, Stanford, UChi, etc.) if my rank's high enough.

I'm not even sure what I'm asking here. Maybe how much is prestige worth? I could get a law degree (with experience, seeing as I have a job lined up in So Ill) for less than 30k, probably 20k from SIU, but over 70k at Kent.

[timbs4339]

The admissions office is refusing to remove the stip, however, I also just was admitted to Kent with 20k/yr no stip. I'm thinking of retaking in June (I will for sure), and trying to transfer to the T14 (Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, Stanford, UChi, etc.) if my rank's high enough.

I'm not even sure what I'm asking here. Maybe how much is prestige worth? I could get a law degree (with experience, seeing as I have a job lined up in So Ill) for less than 30k, probably 20k from SIU, but over 70k at Kent.

Neither of those schools are "prestigious"- that's like asking what tastes "good," piss or shit? The editor in chief of the Kent law review graduated without a job a few years back. Illinois could be called "prestigious" but you don't have an offer there yet.

The problem is that stip is really sketchy. If you just want to stay in the area SIU is fine, but if you lose the scholly you're in a terrible pickle. Of course, if you get below median you'd seriously want to consider dropping out because it will be that much harder to find a job.

Don't go in trying to transfer, because it won't happen.

[romothesavior]

The admissions office is refusing to remove the stip, however, I also just was admitted to Kent with 20k/yr no stip. I'm thinking of retaking in June (I will for sure), and trying to transfer to the T14 (Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, Stanford, UChi, etc.) if my rank's high enough.

I'm not even sure what I'm asking here. Maybe how much is prestige worth? I could get a law degree (with experience, seeing as I have a job lined up in So Ill) for less than 30k, probably 20k from SIU, but over 70k at Kent.

I'll reiterate what timbs said. Neither school is even remotely prestigious. No one in the legal industry will be "impressed" by either one.

If you truly do have a job lined up and SIU is cheaper, then go there. Otherwise, retake the LSAT and gun for a better school.

[Younks]

Piss and shit metaphors, really? After all those readings about Aeschylean dramas, that's the best analogy you can come up with?

I decided to go with Kent, a retake in June, and plans of no social life next year. I can always hang my own shingle - the idea with Southern is that I could do it with less debt, and more start-up capital and therefore have a higher chance of financial success (20k in debt - based solely off living expenses along with a pretty-much guaranteed job in labor and civil rights law with a former gubernatorial candidate isn't a bad deal, rheTTToric aside).

Doch fick es, I will go with peer pressure and hope it serves me well. Kent class of 2016!

[Clearly]

Piss and shit metaphors, really? After all those readings about Aeschylean dramas, that's the best analogy you can come up with?

I decided to go with Kent, a retake in June, and plans of no social life next year. I can always hang my own shingle - the idea with Southern is that I could do it with less debt, and more start-up capital and therefore have a higher chance of financial success (20k in debt - based solely off living expenses along with a pretty-much guaranteed job in labor and civil rights law with a former gubernatorial candidate isn't a bad deal, rheTTToric aside).

Doch fick es, I will go with peer pressure and hope it serves me well. Kent class of 2016!

What peer pressure? Everyone told you to retake and pass on these schools...

[romothesavior]

Piss and shit metaphors, really? After all those readings about Aeschylean dramas, that's the best analogy you can come up with?

I decided to go with Kent, a retake in June, and plans of no social life next year. I can always hang my own shingle - the idea with Southern is that I could do it with less debt, and more start-up capital and therefore have a higher chance of financial success (20k in debt - based solely off living expenses along with a pretty-much guaranteed job in labor and civil rights law with a former gubernatorial candidate isn't a bad deal, rheTTToric aside).

Doch fick es, I will go with peer pressure and hope it serves me well. Kent class of 2016!

What peer pressure? Everyone told you to retake and pass on these schools...

He made two separate threads and everyone told him not to go. There was no peer pressure to go to Kent. I don't think anyone even has recommended Kent.

The only school that isn't completely idiotic to attend in this situation is Southern. You even just said less debt, more start up capital, etc. but you're still taking Kent?

Smart money says this ends poorly.

[timbs4339]

Piss and shit metaphors, really? After all those readings about Aeschylean dramas, that's the best analogy you can come up with?

I decided to go with Kent, a retake in June, and plans of no social life next year. I can always hang my own shingle - the idea with Southern is that I could do it with less debt, and more start-up capital and therefore have a higher chance of financial success (20k in debt - based solely off living expenses along with a pretty-much guaranteed job in labor and civil rights law with a former gubernatorial candidate isn't a bad deal, rheTTToric aside).

Doch fick es, I will go with peer pressure and hope it serves me well. Kent class of 2016!

Something tells me you weren't paying attention in Classics 101 if you think the Greeks weren't down for a bit of scatological humor. Anyway, good luck with the shit sandwich. You're actually making the worst decision of any of your options, but hey, since I can't be bothered to think up a nice metaphor to describe how terrible it is, the fact that I'm actually a lawyer and can tell you that Kent has no "prestige" probably isn't relevant to your decision at all.

Since you seem to be missing the point:

The only school that isn't completely idiotic to attend in this situation is Southern.

[jbagelboy]

Guys, come on. Kent is an excellent choice. Look at that baller ass underemployment score.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chicago-kent

I mean that pretty. When the underemployment score breaches 1/3 the employment score, you know you're hot on the money. Just as Xerxes crossed the Hellespont without an ounce of hubris, so shall you conquer a destabilized industry alone with your six figure debt & a JD from Chicago-Kent

hope that metaphor worked better for you

[Ti Malice]

I can always hang my own shingle - the idea with Southern is that I could do it with less debt, and more start-up capital and therefore have a higher chance of financial success

I decided to go with Kent [and ~$160K debt at graduation]

Kent class of 2016!

There are no words.

[20141023]

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