Indiana Bloomington vs W and M Forum

[rivermaker]

Hi everyone. I have a pretty huge decision to make in the next couple days that I need your help with. Recently got a scholarship bump from Indiana which will make COA the same for both schools at around 100-105k without interest. Scholly at Indiana is 90k while W and M is 54k. No undergrad debt.

About me: Lived in California all my life and went to UCLA undergrad. Have been living in S. Korea past four years. Have been working at a pretty large IP law firm for the past 1.5 years as a legal editor. Got into Hastings but shitty scholly.

Goal is not necessarily big law although I would like it and don't care where I work after school, but would like the option to go back to Cali. Pretend that retake is not an option please. WILL BE GOING THIS YEAR.

Thanks in advance.

[JamMasterJ]

gonna be pretty hard to get back to CA from either.

[rivermaker]

I understand it will be hard to go back to Cali from either. It isnt that big of a deal if I work somewhere else. I know Indiana grads go back to cali a lot more than W and M, BUT isn't it hard to get a job in even Indianapolis from Bloomington?

[JamMasterJ]

I understand it will be hard to go back to Cali from either. It isnt that big of a deal if I work somewhere else. I know Indiana grads go back to cali a lot more than W and M, BUT Indiana has no viable market if i cant?

Indianapolis? what do you mean?

[rivermaker]

Thanks for posts/votes everyone. Can i hear reasoning why Indiana > W and M?

[kay2016]

I understand it will be hard to go back to Cali from either. It isnt that big of a deal if I work somewhere else. I know Indiana grads go back to cali a lot more than W and M, BUT Indiana has no viable market if i cant?

Indianapolis? what do you mean?

I think OP is concerned because Indy has IU-B and Iu Indy grads competing for jobs and many firms in Indy think equally of the two even though IU -B is seen as the much better choice nationally.

But I could be wrong

[rivermaker]

I think OP is concerned because Indy has IU-B and Iu Indy grads competing for jobs and many firms in Indy think equally of the two even though IU -B is seen as the much better choice nationally.

This is what I meant sorry. Not sure how true it is, but I actually heard Indianapolis favors IU Indy.

[kay2016]

I think OP is concerned because Indy has IU-B and Iu Indy grads competing for jobs and many firms in Indy think equally of the two even though IU -B is seen as the much better choice nationally.

This is what I meant sorry. Not sure how true it is, but I actually heard Indianapolis favors IU Indy.

From my understanding, a lot more Indy grads vs btown grads WANT to stay in Indy. But, it's a lot easier for Indy grads to do externships and stuff.. So your thoughts could be true

[AP-375]

Neither is great for California, but as a current W&M student, I can tell you it is doable (and I know more than one person graduating with market-paying jobs in CA), but tough. W&M at least has the decent enough name recognition that if you had good grades and hustled through your UCLA alumni network, you might be able to catch a bite or two.
I also know people trying to make the same move who have struggled.
Unlikely, but doable.

[rivermaker]

Neither is great for California, but as a current W&M student, I can tell you it is doable (and I know more than one person graduating with market-paying jobs in CA), but tough. W&M at least has the decent enough name recognition that if you had good grades and hustled through your UCLA alumni network, you might be able to catch a bite or two.
I also know people trying to make the same move who have struggled.
Unlikely, but doable.

Thank a lot for this post. How has your experience at W and M been? Location, people, classes, jobs, etc. My family and girlfriend all seem to favor W and M at this point, but I honestly have no idea which to choose.

[somewhatwayward]

If you're insisting on going this year, go to whichever is cheaper. Neither are likely to get you to CA but you seem to understand that. Neither have particularly good name recognition. You haven't said much about the fact that both place only about half into legal jobs. If they're exactly equal in cost, then pick based on whether you want a career in IN or VA.

[BarrySanders]

I think OP is concerned because Indy has IU-B and Iu Indy grads competing for jobs and many firms in Indy think equally of the two even though IU -B is seen as the much better choice nationally.

This is what I meant sorry. Not sure how true it is, but I actually heard Indianapolis favors IU Indy.

From my understanding, a lot more Indy grads vs btown grads WANT to stay in Indy. But, it's a lot easier for Indy grads to do externships and stuff.. So your thoughts could be true

Current IUB student here. Indy is a very tough market and is nearly impossible for people who are not from Indiana. Firms are very concerned that you will work there a few years and then leave. I'm from Michigan and every interview I've had with a firm in Indianapolis repeatedly asked me about wanting to leave. No Indy firms gave me an offer.

I know people trying to get to California and most of them are struggling. The top of the class might have a decent chance assuming they have ties (I have a classmate who will be clerking with the 9th Circuit after graduation), but at or below median you will have a hard enough time getting anything, let alone a firm in California.

[rivermaker]

I think OP is concerned because Indy has IU-B and Iu Indy grads competing for jobs and many firms in Indy think equally of the two even though IU -B is seen as the much better choice nationally.

This is what I meant sorry. Not sure how true it is, but I actually heard Indianapolis favors IU Indy.

From my understanding, a lot more Indy grads vs btown grads WANT to stay in Indy. But, it's a lot easier for Indy grads to do externships and stuff.. So your thoughts could be true

Current IUB student here. Indy is a very tough market and is nearly impossible for people who are not from Indiana. Firms are very concerned that you will work there a few years and then leave. I'm from Michigan and every interview I've had with a firm in Indianapolis repeatedly asked me about wanting to leave. No Indy firms gave me an offer.



I know people trying to get to California and most of them are struggling. The top of the class might have a decent chance assuming they have ties (I have a classmate who will be clerking with the 9th Circuit after graduation), but at or below median you will have a hard enough time getting anything, let alone a firm in California.

Are there other markets that heavily hire bloomington grads?

[rivermaker]

If you're insisting on going this year, go to whichever is cheaper. Neither are likely to get you to CA but you seem to understand that. Neither have particularly good name recognition. You haven't said much about the fact that both place only about half into legal jobs. If they're exactly equal in cost, then pick based on whether you want a career in IN or VA.

I understand the risks I think.

[froglee]

Both schools are shit law schools. W&M particularly has an inflated reputation. Go read its ABA job report.

[K Rock]

. Pretend that retake is not an option please. WILL BE GOING THIS YEAR.

Why is retake not an option?

[BarrySanders]

Are there other markets that heavily hire bloomington grads?

Not really. IUB students are forced to compete against schools in other markets for jobs. IUB does alright in secondary markets throughout the Midwest, but in most of these markets ties will be the biggest factor other than grades. Getting Chicago, DC, NY, or the West Coast is not impossible, but will be very hard and will require not only excellent grades, but a focused effort on networking and other jobs.

[goldenflash19]

Neither school gives you a great shot at biglaw or California. Unless you have a really, really compelling reason not to retake (gun to your head and you'll be shot if you don't attend this year), you should retake. You don't have ties to either school's region, and while your debt won't be "too" bad from either school, it's still more than I'd feel comfortable with their job prospects and your lack of ties.

[romothesavior]

So let me get this straight:

-Lived in Cali all your life
-The two schools you're considering are on the other side of the country, are very regional, and have mediocre (Indiana) to decent (W&M) job placement.
-Looking at around ~120k+ debt

Retake or don't go is without a doubt the credited response.

[hephaestus]

. Pretend that retake is not an option please. WILL BE GOING THIS YEAR.

Why is retake not an option?

[Doorkeeper]

Retake and Reapply. Shoot for USC/UCLA at a minimum.

[RAWR]

Both schools are shit law schools. W&M particularly has an inflated reputation. Go read its ABA job report.

You literally might be the rudest person on TLS, which is really almost an accomplishment. You bash on every school except Pepperdine, which in contrast you speak so highly of I can't help but think you're being sarcastic. What makes you think you know everything? Honestly.

There are plenty of people who help others see the facts regarding employment statistics of schools when they're not favorable, but someone you manage to be the rudest of everyone, and the biggest snob on the internet.

TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL.

[romothesavior]

He also loves on Cardozo while bashing Brooklyn. When I pointed out that they have virtually identical job data he shut right up:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5#p6680767

Dozo is great while UT and Fordham are traps. The dude is a clown.

[RAWR]

He also loves on Cardozo while bashing Brooklyn. When I pointed out that they have virtually identical job data he shut right up:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5#p6680767

Dozo is great while UT and Fordham are traps. The dude is a clown.

A year's tuition to Stanford says he's a Cardozo or Pepperdine student, or wannabe at either. What a joke. At least the majority of people offer constructive advice (I say majority but it may be by a somewhat slim margin) coupled with rude remarks. This guy's a joke.

Hey froglee, where does your snob ass go to school?

[rivermaker]

Appreciate all the advice everyone.