Duke ($) vs. Mich ($) vs. NYU Forum

backtothebeat · Post by **backtothebeat** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:49 pm

My friend is choosing among

Duke: $67.5k scholarship, COA (according to lst) $185k
Mich: $67.5k scholarship, COA $187k
NYU: COA $280k

3.6 / 171, he's from NY and wants nyc biglaw. I'm at M right now and I'd be able to help him out with 1L classes. He's financing mostly through loans, maybe some CoL help from parents.

What are the chances of negotiating scholarships between Mich/Duke?

megagnarley · Post by **megagnarley** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:00 pm

backtothebeat wrote:My friend is choosing among

Duke: $67.5k scholarship, COA (according to lst) $185k
Mich: $67.5k scholarship, COA $187k
NYU: COA $280k

3.6 / 171, he's from NY and wants nyc biglaw. I'm at M right now I'd be able to help him out with 1L classes. He's financing mostly through loans, maybe some CoL help from parents.

What are the chances of negotiating scholarships between Mich/Duke?

His chances of scholarship negotiation with Mich are basically nil. I had more money from Duke and the same from Mich and Mich wouldn't budge.

Scratch NYU (just not worth 95k extra) and go to whichever he likes more between Duke/Mich.

backtothebeat · Post by **backtothebeat** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:13 pm

megagnarley wrote:
backtothebeat wrote:My friend is choosing among

Duke: $67.5k scholarship, COA (according to lst) $185k
Mich: $67.5k scholarship, COA $187k
NYU: COA $280k

3.6 / 171, he's from NY and wants nyc biglaw. I'm at M right now I'd be able to help him out with 1L classes. He's financing mostly through loans, maybe some CoL help from parents.

What are the chances of negotiating scholarships between Mich/Duke?
His chances of scholarship negotiation with Mich are basically nil. I had more money from Duke and the same from Mich and Mich wouldn't budge.

Scratch NYU (just not worth 95k extra) and go to whichever he likes more between Duke/Mich.

Thanks for the quick response. Do you think Duke would budge at all from the M offer?

untar614 · Post by **untar614** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:22 pm

backtothebeat wrote:
Thanks for the quick response. Do you think Duke would budge at all from the M offer?

They are the same amount, ranked about the same, and duke tends to place better is recent years, so I highly doubt it.

dixiecupdrinking · Post by **dixiecupdrinking** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:27 pm

Toss up between Michigan or Duke.

Doorkeeper · Post by **Doorkeeper** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:15 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Toss up between Michigan or Duke.

megagnarley · Post by **megagnarley** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:20 pm

backtothebeat wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
backtothebeat wrote:My friend is choosing among

Duke: $67.5k scholarship, COA (according to lst) $185k
Mich: $67.5k scholarship, COA $187k
NYU: COA $280k

3.6 / 171, he's from NY and wants nyc biglaw. I'm at M right now I'd be able to help him out with 1L classes. He's financing mostly through loans, maybe some CoL help from parents.

What are the chances of negotiating scholarships between Mich/Duke?
His chances of scholarship negotiation with Mich are basically nil. I had more money from Duke and the same from Mich and Mich wouldn't budge.

Scratch NYU (just not worth 95k extra) and go to whichever he likes more between Duke/Mich.
Thanks for the quick response. Do you think Duke would budge at all from the M offer?

Doubt it. You can always give it a shot but there's no real point of leverage here.

NoodleyOne · Post by **NoodleyOne** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:23 pm

Doesn't hurt to ask, but I like Duke here.

GMGP · Post by **GMGP** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:32 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Toss up between Michigan or Duke.

$2,000 v. significant difference in employment? I'd take Duke but as general advice, visit both schools, talk to both career counselors, and see where you fit best.

dixiecupdrinking · Post by **dixiecupdrinking** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:40 pm

GMGP wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Toss up between Michigan or Duke.
$2,000 v. significant difference in employment? I'd take Duke but as general advice, visit both schools, talk to both career counselors, and see where you fit best.

If you think there's going to be a significant difference in employment, you're wrong.

fallingup · Post by **fallingup** » Thu May 02, 2013 4:16 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
GMGP wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Toss up between Michigan or Duke.
$2,000 v. significant difference in employment? I'd take Duke but as general advice, visit both schools, talk to both career counselors, and see where you fit best.
If you think there's going to be a significant difference in employment, you're wrong.

Dixiecup, tell me more.

NoodleyOne · Post by **NoodleyOne** » Thu May 02, 2013 5:08 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
GMGP wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Toss up between Michigan or Duke.
$2,000 v. significant difference in employment? I'd take Duke but as general advice, visit both schools, talk to both career counselors, and see where you fit best.
If you think there's going to be a significant difference in employment, you're wrong.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=duke
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=michigan

dixiecupdrinking · Post by **dixiecupdrinking** » Thu May 02, 2013 5:34 pm

NoodleyOne wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
GMGP wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:Toss up between Michigan or Duke.
$2,000 v. significant difference in employment? I'd take Duke but as general advice, visit both schools, talk to both career counselors, and see where you fit best.
If you think there's going to be a significant difference in employment, you're wrong.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=duke
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=michigan

Mmhmm...? Do you think that's significant or insignificant? LST is doing a lot of valuable work, but slavishly relying on distinctions in these numbers, within narrow bands, is really unhelpful. There are a lot of students who actively don't want the jobs that folks tend to view as the unquestionable gold standard of employment. Do you think it's unlikely that 8% more Michigan students than Duke students actually want to do something other than big firm work? It doesn't strike me as particularly unlikely. And if that's true, then the firm numbers are a wash.

I am simply very skeptical of the notion that schools that are extremely similar in every meaningful way, including student quality, faculty quality, and reputation, have significantly different "placement power," and think that self-selection is actually an extremely large factor in these employment figures that is consistently underrated.

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Thu May 02, 2013 6:27 pm

I second the above. No meaningful distinction between Mich and Duke here in employment. Detroit area was hurt a little worse in 2008-2009, whereas Duke relied more on DC/NYC placement power and north carolina is having a mini tech bubble right now. Doesn't mean much. One or two years of data don't make a definitive trend and the Mich hate has gone too far.

That said, Michigan is a little stuck up in their finaid negotiations, and this might be the root of some of the issues TLS has projected to the school in general. They definitely aren't better than Duke, but they act like it and won't look at higher Duke scholarships (or NU ones). I had a similar experience to megagnarley. I suspect this will change in the next few cycles when they are bleeding kids to higher Duke/Cornell/NU offers.

Your friend should go to whichever they like better between Duke and Michigan. There are differences in location, programs, professors, and school vibe that will actually matter more here for grades/happiness/success than the roughly equal cost and placement power.

NoodleyOne · Post by **NoodleyOne** » Thu May 02, 2013 6:37 pm

Plausible? Sure. Probable? Probably not. T14 students are pretty similar across the board, and making the distinction based on the six figures of debt everyone is carrying around means big firm work (and clerkships)while being a very cconservative approach is the safest one.

Doorkeeper · Post by **Doorkeeper** » Thu May 02, 2013 8:19 pm

The distinctions between Michigan and Duke are insignificant enough for OP to calmly and without regrets pick one or other other based upon where he will be happiest and enjoy living for three years (So long as the OP doesn't have a strong geographic preference that favors one school over the other, which in this case he does not because he wants NYC biglaw).

/thread.

jayman12 · Post by **jayman12** » Thu May 02, 2013 10:48 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:The distinctions between Michigan and Duke are insignificant enough for OP to calmly and without regrets pick one or other other based upon where he will be happiest and enjoy living for three years (So long as the OP doesn't have a strong geographic preference that favors one school over the other, which in this case he does not because he wants NYC biglaw).

/thread.

I think I would pick Michigan, how good of friends are you guys anyways?

Dr. Dre · Post by **Dr. Dre** » Thu May 02, 2013 11:39 pm

megagnarley · Post by **megagnarley** » Fri May 03, 2013 12:45 am

NoodleyOne wrote:Plausible? Sure. Probable? Probably not. T14 students are pretty similar across the board, and making the distinction based on the six figures of debt everyone is carrying around means big firm work (and clerkships)while being a very cconservative approach is the safest one.

Probable? Absolutely.

Duke PI+Gov= 9.3%

Mich PI+Gov= 16%

Anyway, I won't get into the numbers game because everything is so unreliable no matter which end you try to prop up, but it's safe to say go where he/she likes best at roughly equal cost.

ETA: IMO

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