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bking17.bk · Post by **bking17.bk** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:28 pm

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Ti Malice · Post by **Ti Malice** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:35 pm

For the love of god, do not waste that 3.8 on those poor options. Retake.

NoodleyOne · Post by **NoodleyOne** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:39 pm

Ti Malice wrote:For the love of god, do not waste that 3.8 on those poor options. Retake.

I didn't want to be the first to post that.

bking17.bk · Post by **bking17.bk** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:57 pm

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NoodleyOne · Post by **NoodleyOne** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:01 pm

bking17.bk wrote:Retake the LSAT? I took it twice already and did poorly the first time for a lot of reasons that are irrelevant now - but suffice it to say I had a lot going on at the time. This last time I took it, after about 2 months of taking a full test at least three times a week, I was scoring 167-170 on average as I neared the test date but found the December 2012 one to be much harder than the previous 3 or 4 that were given.

I've been out of school since summer 2010 now and am definitely not going to wait another year to be in school again.

Any suggestions or advice other than taking the LSAT again?

Brooklyn is not as bad as people think based on the rankings alone. A close friend of mine attended there, graduated at the top of her class, and started working for Paul Weiss right out of Law School earning a huge Big Law salary in NYC.

Jesus, look around these forums. You're what, 24, 25? Take a fucking year off. Your anecdote is crap, there is no reason to think you'll be at the top of your class. There are no good reasons not to retake in your situation. Not voting in your poll because I'm not enabling your awful decision.

rickgrimes69 · Post by **rickgrimes69** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:05 pm

bking17.bk wrote:I have a very strong chance of being in the top 10%, or even 5%, of my class at Brooklyn Law whereas my chances of being ranked that high at either BC or UC Davis are much slimmer.

This isn't true at all. The difference in student quality between BC / Davis and BK is not substantial enough to assume you will do better at one school over the other. Even if it was, nobody can predict how they will do in law school. The only ranking you have a "very strong chance" of achieving is Median.

bking17.bk wrote:Brooklyn is not as bad as people think based on the rankings alone. A close friend of mine attended there, graduated at the top of her class, and started working for Paul Weiss right out of Law School earning a huge Big Law salary in NYC.

The only reason Paul Weiss (or any other Biglaw firm) would look at a BK grad is because they were at the top of their class. You will almost certainly not be at the top of your class. If you go to BK, assume that Biglaw is not going to happen.

WokeUpInACar · Post by **WokeUpInACar** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:06 pm

bking17.bk wrote:Retake the LSAT? I took it twice already and did poorly the first time for a lot of reasons that are irrelevant now - but suffice it to say I had a lot going on at the time. This last time I took it, after about 2 months of taking a full test at least three times a week, I was scoring 167-170 on average as I neared the test date but found the December 2012 one to be much harder than the previous 3 or 4 that were given.

That is really not very much preparation at all. Many people on this board have put in over 300 hours studying for the LSAT and it has drastically improved their lives. Do you have any clue how much better your options would be with a 170 or 171? You'd most likely be able to attend a school like BC for free, and you'd have a very good shot at a school like NYU. Retaking the LSAT could literally change your life.

LESS THAN HALF of Brooklyn Law's graduates are employed at ANY job requiring a JD 9 months after graduation. http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=brooklyn The fact that you have a special snowflake friend who killed it there does not change that the odds are overwhelmingly against you at Brooklyn law.

Don't hold yourself back for the rest of your life based on one year of being moderately uncomfortable. You absolutely must retake the LSAT.

bob loblaw11 · Post by **bob loblaw11** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:12 pm

bking17.bk wrote:A close friend of mine attended there, graduated at the top of her class, and started working for Paul Weiss right out of Law School earning a huge Big Law salary in NYC.

This is true. But I also know someone, at that same firm, who attended Brooklyn and only managed a "JD Preferred" position - without the Big Law salary. Do you really want your future to be tied so closely to your class rank? It's impossible to predict how well you'll do.

[Edit]

cahwc12 · Post by **cahwc12** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:16 pm

bking17.bk wrote:Retake the LSAT? I took it twice already and did poorly the first time for a lot of reasons that are irrelevant now - but suffice it to say I had a lot going on at the time. This last time I took it, after about 2 months of taking a full test at least three times a week, I was scoring 167-170 on average as I neared the test date but found the December 2012 one to be much harder than the previous 3 or 4 that were given.

I've been out of school since summer 2010 now and am definitely not going to wait another year to be in school again.

Any suggestions or advice other than taking the LSAT again?

Brooklyn is not as bad as people think based on the rankings alone. A close friend of mine attended there, graduated at the top of her class, and started working for Paul Weiss right out of Law School earning a huge Big Law salary in NYC.

These are still all terrible reasons to not take it a third time and wait a year. Making a poor decision because you don't want to wait is still a poor decision. It sounds like you studied hard for your tests, but you should learn how to study better. A couple extra correct questions completely changes your law school options.

As it stands, none of these is worth attending at the prices you mention, although I would give outside consideration to BC depending on their offer, which should be substantially more than $0.

Rlabo · Post by **Rlabo** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:23 pm

Curious to know what happened with Cardozo and fordham? Did you apply to these schools?

ManoftheHour · Post by **ManoftheHour** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:34 pm

OP, please don't go to Yu See Davis. It'll do nothing for your career. The San Francisco market is very tough to crack. You have no ties there. It'll be the biggest mistake of your life. Add in the fact that you're attending it at sticker makes it absolutely insane.

Gun to my head, Brooklyn. But there's no gun. Retake.

ManoftheHour · Post by **ManoftheHour** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:34 pm

Rlabo wrote:Curious to know what happened with Cardozo and fordham? Did you apply to these schools?

Tekrul · Post by **Tekrul** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:48 pm

bking17.bk wrote:Brooklyn is not as bad as people think based on the rankings alone. A close friend of mine attended there, graduated at the top of her class, and started working for Paul Weiss right out of Law School earning a huge Big Law salary in NYC.

What happened to every other graduate except her? I could just as easily and just as ACCURATELY say you should go homeless and wander L.A. because Jim Carey was homeless before he struck it as a celebrity.

In addition, do you know anything about how biglaw goes after a few years? Few people can manage to stay in it. After 2-4 years most are forced out the door. Not fired but told to look for work elsewhere. 6 months later, they can't get past security. There is a flood of cheap, hungry, potential 1st year associates graduating every year and they work for less than the 4th year associate rate. The business model is to get rid of the old and take in the new.

Against that bet, you want to take the additional bet of coming from a lower tier school? You have a GPA I would have, literally, killed for. Go HAM on the LSAT one last time - everyone here has your interest in mind. Retake is the right choice.

ManoftheHour · Post by **ManoftheHour** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:53 pm

With a 165 and a 3.8, HOW are these your only choices? I'd figure at least one of the lower T14s would have taken you.

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:54 pm

after retake, don't waste money on UC law schools unless you want to move to California. Apply to Fordham for NYC. With a ~168, Cornell is even looking good.

sflyr2016 · Post by **sflyr2016** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:01 pm

bking17.bk wrote:I was admitted to Brooklyn Law School, Boston College, UC Hastings, and UC Davis. I have been given VERY different suggestions as to what I should do from several attorney and various other people and am still having a difficult time making the decision. I've pretty much definitively taken Hastings off the list of schools I'm still currently considering though.

LSAT Score: 165
UGPA: 3.80, University of Tennessee, Knoxville
Experience: +18 months as a litigation paralegal, currently working as part of a litigation team on a trial in Federal Court (District Court of New Jersey)

Scholarships:

Brooklyn Law - $45K per year with a guarantee that my cost of tuition will be the same during my 2L and 3L year as it is during 1L, regardless of any increase in tuition during that time. The only stipulation is that I remain in the top 80% of my class, which I don't anticipate being difficult. I was actually surprised at this, because at first I thought it meant that I had to perform better than 80% of the other students, but it was in fact the opposite - I would only need to do better than 20% to continue receiving the scholarship.

Boston College: I haven't heard anything re. scholarships here, but I don't anticipate being offered much, if any at all.

UC Davis: $0 scholarships offered.

Hastings: I haven't applied for financial aid yet, but I anticipate being offered between $10-20K per year. It is probably more reasonable to expect to be offered the lower end of that range.

Other things to consider: I live in Brooklyn already, so I wouldn't have to move, which would save me a significant amount of money. I would most like to practice in New York City upon graduation from Law School, but I would just as soon practice in San Francisco. I have a very strong chance of being in the top 10%, or even 5%, of my class at Brooklyn Law whereas my chances of being ranked that high at either BC or UC Davis are much slimmer. If I attend Brooklyn Law, I anticipate having to take at least $60K (hopefully less if I get a paid position 2L summer) in loans to pay for living costs alone while I attend school and the small portion of tuition that I will have to pay. I also tried to use the fact that I was admitted to BC as leverage to receive a scholarship that covered all tuition at Brooklyn Law, but was unsuccessful.

The hardest question for me to answer is this: Does attending either BC or Davis confer any benefit that attending BLS would not if I would ideally like to practice in NYC? I've been told that they don't and that in fact, the exact opposite may be the case. An attorney told me that BLS has a far reach into the NYC job market IF you graduate with a very high ranking in your class. He said graduating at the top of my class at BLS would be far more valuable in the NYC job market than being in the middle of the pack or even relatively high at BC or Davis, despite what the rankings say and what many would have you believe. Furthermore, even if going to BC or Davis would confer additional benefit that Brooklyn would not, would the opportunity cost actually make attending either of those other schools worth it? It would mean giving up $135K in scholarship money and taking ~$200K out in loans just to make it through 3 years of law school.

The real question then is this: Would the better job prospects and potential for a higher salary be substantial enough to compensate for the additional $200K in debt I would be taking on?

Any help would be appreciated. And if you'd like to offer advice with regards to any consideration I haven't included here, please do so! Thanks!

BK

Reach out to BC for money. They will absolutely give you some. Respectfully explain that you are having a tough time deciding and that BC is your first-choice. Explain that you must consider how you will afford attending and make a responsible financial decision. Ask to please be considered for merit aid.. And let us know what they offer.

NoodleyOne · Post by **NoodleyOne** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:48 pm

joeant wrote:
bking17.bk wrote:I was admitted to Brooklyn Law School, Boston College, UC Hastings, and UC Davis. I have been given VERY different suggestions as to what I should do from several attorney and various other people and am still having a difficult time making the decision. I've pretty much definitively taken Hastings off the list of schools I'm still currently considering though.

LSAT Score: 165
UGPA: 3.80, University of Tennessee, Knoxville
Experience: +18 months as a litigation paralegal, currently working as part of a litigation team on a trial in Federal Court (District Court of New Jersey)

Scholarships:

Brooklyn Law - $45K per year with a guarantee that my cost of tuition will be the same during my 2L and 3L year as it is during 1L, regardless of any increase in tuition during that time. The only stipulation is that I remain in the top 80% of my class, which I don't anticipate being difficult. I was actually surprised at this, because at first I thought it meant that I had to perform better than 80% of the other students, but it was in fact the opposite - I would only need to do better than 20% to continue receiving the scholarship.

Boston College: I haven't heard anything re. scholarships here, but I don't anticipate being offered much, if any at all.

UC Davis: $0 scholarships offered.

Hastings: I haven't applied for financial aid yet, but I anticipate being offered between $10-20K per year. It is probably more reasonable to expect to be offered the lower end of that range.

Other things to consider: I live in Brooklyn already, so I wouldn't have to move, which would save me a significant amount of money. I would most like to practice in New York City upon graduation from Law School, but I would just as soon practice in San Francisco. I have a very strong chance of being in the top 10%, or even 5%, of my class at Brooklyn Law whereas my chances of being ranked that high at either BC or UC Davis are much slimmer. If I attend Brooklyn Law, I anticipate having to take at least $60K (hopefully less if I get a paid position 2L summer) in loans to pay for living costs alone while I attend school and the small portion of tuition that I will have to pay. I also tried to use the fact that I was admitted to BC as leverage to receive a scholarship that covered all tuition at Brooklyn Law, but was unsuccessful.

The hardest question for me to answer is this: Does attending either BC or Davis confer any benefit that attending BLS would not if I would ideally like to practice in NYC? I've been told that they don't and that in fact, the exact opposite may be the case. An attorney told me that BLS has a far reach into the NYC job market IF you graduate with a very high ranking in your class. He said graduating at the top of my class at BLS would be far more valuable in the NYC job market than being in the middle of the pack or even relatively high at BC or Davis, despite what the rankings say and what many would have you believe. Furthermore, even if going to BC or Davis would confer additional benefit that Brooklyn would not, would the opportunity cost actually make attending either of those other schools worth it? It would mean giving up $135K in scholarship money and taking ~$200K out in loans just to make it through 3 years of law school.

The real question then is this: Would the better job prospects and potential for a higher salary be substantial enough to compensate for the additional $200K in debt I would be taking on?

Any help would be appreciated. And if you'd like to offer advice with regards to any consideration I haven't included here, please do so! Thanks!

BK
Reach out to BC for money. They will absolutely give you some. Respectfully explain that you are having a tough time deciding and that BC is your first-choice. Explain that you must consider how you will afford attending and make a responsible financial decision. Ask to please be considered for merit aid.. And let us know what they offer.

And after you do that, retake the LSAT and get into a good school.

Post by **romothesavior** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:37 pm

These are life-ruiningly bad options at these prices.

Ti Malice · Post by **Ti Malice** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:20 pm

bking17.bk wrote:I have a very strong chance of being in the top 10%, or even 5%, of my class at Brooklyn Law

Wow. Missed this the first time around, since I stopped at "3.80."

What exactly leads you do this conclusion?

hephaestus · Post by **hephaestus** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:25 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
bking17.bk wrote:I have a very strong chance of being in the top 10%, or even 5%, of my class at Brooklyn Law
Wow. Missed this the first time around, since I stopped at "3.80."

What exactly leads you do this conclusion?

Nothing legitimate.
OP, dont let your ego ruin your life. Retake or dont go.

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:29 pm

bking17.bk wrote:
Brooklyn is not as bad as people think based on the rankings alone. A close friend of mine attended there, graduated at the top of her class, and started working for Paul Weiss right out of Law School earning a huge Big Law salary in NYC.

Do not go to Brooklyn expecting or even thinking it's likely you'll get this outcome. If you would be happy making 40-60K a year as a public defender, DA, or employee at a small firm, then go to Brooklyn. If you want biglaw, you need a biglaw feeder school. BC isn't even one.

PRgradBYU · Post by **PRgradBYU** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:43 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
bking17.bk wrote:I have a very strong chance of being in the top 10%, or even 5%, of my class at Brooklyn Law
Wow. Missed this the first time around, since I stopped at "3.80."

What exactly leads you do this conclusion?

+1. This statement is completely unsupported, OP. You have no way of knowing this.

froglee · Post by **froglee** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:21 am

Brooklyn Law gets the most votes now????

froglee · Post by **froglee** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:25 am

bking17.bk wrote: Brooklyn is not as bad as people think based on the rankings alone. A close friend of mine attended there, graduated at the top of her class, and started working for Paul Weiss right out of Law School earning a huge Big Law salary in NYC.

Not to flame here. Brooklyn's overall job statistics is very bad. And judging whether the school is good or bad based on the employment outcome of one or a few top students is a very bad idea.

sflyr2016 · Post by **sflyr2016** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:18 am

I say you leverage scholarships from every school. Get BC to offer you something, then take it back to Hastings and Davis, and if either makes a substantial offer you can come back to BC and see if they raise it. If you get BC at 1/2, which is completely plausible, then you have a great option at a t30 in a big market and at 1/2 tuition. Every law school has seen applications drop drastically. As such, schools are bidding heavily over applicants at or above their previous medians, which you are at each school you've mentioned.