Michigan v. Chicago v. UVA Forum

[bl1234]

I'm curious to know what you would choose given these options:
Michigan (45K)
Chicago (15K)
UVA(60K)

[Mal Reynolds]

Yale

[sinfiery]

Are these the scholarship amounts or cost of attendance per year/total?


Also, if that is your only goal in law school then:

Yale

[jbagelboy]

UChicago is the only one with realistic academic law potential, but if you really really want to be a law professor and wont be satisfied with biglaw options, yale. Or just get a phd in a related field and become a professor of legal studies but not really law.

[envisciguy]

Yale

[Doorkeeper]

Retake and reapply.

Seriously.

Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school that it's worth the year and the retake.

If you have a sub-3.7X GPA, then Chicago.

[nebula666]

I'm curious how you know you want to be a law professor before you've ever taken a law class

[Ti Malice]

You have a 3.93. Retake that 168 for YHS.

[TripTrip]

You have a 3.93. Retake that 168 for YHS.

Wait, OP got UChi with 3.93/168?

RETAKE.

[born4law]

Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school

Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.

What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?

Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.

[TripTrip]

Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school

Wait... why is that?

First, if you go to a lower T14 wanting academia, they'll flat out tell you no. Second, just look at the credentials of any list of professors at a major law school. Usually at least 75% are HYS and the other 25% are a mix of every other school. http://www.law.columbia.edu/faculty

[Doorkeeper]

Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school

Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.

What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?

Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.

Legal academia placement coming from HYS is MUCH stronger than any other law school. Yale and Harvard places 23-30 people into academia every year. Chicago has a good year if it places 5 people (and 1-2 of that 5 will have a PhD). It's definitely not IMPOSSIBLE from a non-HYS school, but it's MUCH harder, especially without a PhD. The difference is definitely worth a year to retake the LSAT and reapply.

[Emma.]

Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school

Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.

What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?

Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.

Legal academia placement coming from HYS is MUCH stronger than any other law school. Yale and Harvard places 23-30 people into academia every year. Chicago has a good year if it places 5 people (and 1-2 of that 5 will have a PhD). It's definitely not IMPOSSIBLE from a non-HYS school, but it's MUCH harder, especially without a PhD. The difference is definitely worth a year to retake the LSAT and reapply.

This is pretty disingenuous. Harvard is 3 times UChicago's size. It does show just how superior Y is to any other school in academic placement though.

[Doorkeeper]

This is pretty disingenuous. Harvard is 3 times UChicago's size. It does show just how superior Y is to any other school in academic placement though.

Harvard dominates on a per capita basis and on the strength of the placement school as well. It's really not a comparison. Obviously Yale is in a tier of its own, but HY are the next tier, and then way below that is CCN.

Chicago's placement last year = 5 (Detroit Law, Miami, Oklahoma, UVA, and West Virginia)
Harvard's placement last year = 23 (including UVA, Vanderbilt, UCLA, UNC, Minnesota, GWU, and Berkeley)

[born4law]

This is pretty disingenuous. Harvard is 3 times UChicago's size. It does show just how superior Y is to any other school in academic placement though.

Good point Emma. Also: no one's answered exactly why HYS is better? Quality of education? Signaling on behalf of academic employers?

[Emma.]

This is pretty disingenuous. Harvard is 3 times UChicago's size. It does show just how superior Y is to any other school in academic placement though.

Harvard dominates on a per capita basis and on the strength of the placement school as well. It's really not a comparison. Obviously Yale is in a tier of its own, but HY are the next tier, and then way below that is CCN.

Chicago's placement last year = 5 (Detroit Law, Miami, Oklahoma, UVA, and West Virginia)
Harvard's placement last year = 23 (including UVA, Vanderbilt, UCLA, UNC, Minnesota, GWU, and Berkeley)

But the point is that if you normalized these numbers to account for class size it would be more like 15 to 23. Hardly "way below."

[TaipeiMort]

Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school

Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.

What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?

Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.

Legal academia placement coming from HYS is MUCH stronger than any other law school. Yale and Harvard places 23-30 people into academia every year. Chicago has a good year if it places 5 people (and 1-2 of that 5 will have a PhD). It's definitely not IMPOSSIBLE from a non-HYS school, but it's MUCH harder, especially without a PhD. The difference is definitely worth a year to retake the LSAT and reapply.

I don't think the numbers are that far apart between Harvard and Chicago when you factor in class size. Yale is on a different plain.

[IAFG]

Really, the message here should be "almost no one gets to be a legal academic from any school."

[Tekrul]

The truest message here is that OP has the GPA for Yale and should put his efforts into a retake. He is hemorrhaging academia chances by settling. And if he misses Yale, then he's got a solid at HSCCN with more cash at the very least.

I just don't understand... The test is beatable, the GPA is in place. Why not?

[Doorkeeper]

Really, the message here should be "almost no one gets to be a legal academic from any school."

HYS place 40-50% of of their candidates on the job market into tenure track positions every year. If you want academia bad enough, it's attainable. Most people just aren't serious enough about it.

[IAFG]

Really, the message here should be "almost no one gets to be a legal academic from any school."

HYS place 40-50% of of their candidates on the job market into tenure track positions every year. If you want academia bad enough, it's attainable. Most people just aren't serious enough about it.

I don't understand what you're saying. 40-50% of people who already had a shot at academia?

[rad lulz]

Don't go to law school if you don't want to anything but be a law professor because your chances are abysmal

[Bronck]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... a#p4188514

T14 2003-2011 Entry Level Hiring Data:
Total Hires / Class Size / Per Capita Score / +or- from Leiter / Per Capita fluctuation in 08-111 relative to 03-07
Ya 173 / 200 / 0.865 / +.435 / +101%
Ha 187 / 550 / 0.340 / +.160 / +88%
St 59 / 175 / 0.337 / +.167 / +98%
Co 72 / 375 / 0.192 / +.092 / +92%
Ch 48 / 200 / 0.240 / +.090 / +60%
NY 67 / 450 / 0.148 / +.078 / +111%
Pe 24 / 250 / 0.096 / +.036 / +60%
Mi 53 / 375 / 0.141 / +.081 / +135%
Be 42 / 275 / 0.152 / +.082 / +117%
Vi 37 / 375 / 0.098 / +.028 / +40%
Du 16 / 200 / 0.080 / +.030 / +60%
NU 14 / 250 / 0.056 / +.026 / +86%
Co 8 / 200 / 0.040 / +.020 / +100%
Gt 26 / 575 / 0.045 / +.015 / +50%

[Myself]

.

[TaipeiMort]

Your chances for legal academia coming from HYS are so much higher than any other school

Wait... why is that? I keep seeing this over and over again on TLS. The mantra seems to be that HYS is required for legal academia. But come on now... I'm sure there are plenty of T14-educated people that became law professors. All law professors are from HYS? That can't be true. Surely it increases your chances, but I wouldn't say "Forget it. You're done son." to someone who's got professorial ambitions and doesn't have HYS acceptances.

What is it about the experience at HYS that makes people more qualified for legal academia? Or is it purely a signaling measure?

Your chances at any corner of the legal profession are much higher out of HYS, of course academia would be included. And I don't want to single you out Doorkeeper as the only person saying this. I see it everywhere on TLS. Just curious what's backing this assertion up.

No, there aren't plenty of T-14 grads teaching in law school. You'll see some, but they're the exception--not the rule. Most law profs are from HYS. You'll have a considerable advantage if you go to one of those. Why is that? Probable because of a combination of snobbishness, lack of creativity, and prestige whoring.

I just want to point out that the data above shows less of a gap between Chicago (and to a lesser extent Columbia) and H and S, and more of a huge gap between Yale and the rest.