Richmond v W&M v Emory Forum

[bsktbll28082]

You all know more than I do about these schools. I'm waitlisted at Emory and W&M. If by some miracle I get in, I need some help deciding.

Richmond

Pro: beautiful campus, Dean Rahman keeps calling me, not that far from where I am now, decent placement in Richmond, cheaper cost of living then now, ability to create own dual degree program, small classrooms
Con: no scholarship, lowest ranking (out of the choices)

W&M

Pro: I like the 'Citizen Lawyer' motto they've got, nice area, cheaper cost of living then now, Elizabeth C. was nice during visit, professors seem engaging, close to where I am now
Con: I felt like they really didn't care about me since I am waitlisted (this is most likely true), they do not allow you to create your own dual degree program

Emory

Pro: highest ranking option, ability to pursue dual degree with MTS (very good divinity school), located in Atlanta
Con: admissions unwilling to work with me at all (I tried to drive 10+ hours to visit, but they said 'no one was available to talk'), bad vibe, seem kind of full of themselves

-------------------------

I doubt I'll get scholarship anywhere. The schools usually decide I can easily take out loans (dead wrong), so the differences in tuition aren't extremely important. Although I've heard UR sends money sometimes later. I know 'vibe' isn't the best way to pick a school, but it's something I'm considering.

I'm considering a dual degree, but not completely set on what. My goal isn't to start out making 800k/yr or anything crazy, but I also do not want to be making 50k/yr. If I'm at UR or W&M, I would probably stay in Virginia.

Any other things I should be considering? If Emory or W&M calls, I think I have 48 hrs to place a deposit.

Thanks!

EDIT: I'll probably be taking out 50% of the total cost in loans. So, ~80k no matter which I choose.

[ironbmike]

Calculate the total costs with interest and post em. Retake not an option?

[rad lulz]

Richmond with no scholarship is a terrible idea

[hephaestus]

Richmond with no scholarship is a terrible idea

As are Emory and W&M. OP, you say you will be unhappy making 50k. These schools won't give you a decent shot of a good job (read: six figures). Retake the LSAT and reapply.

[bsktbll28082]

Calculate the total costs with interest and post em. Retake not an option?

Just grabbing these from the rankings...

Emory: 65k/yr= 195k
Richmond:47k/yr= 141k
W&M: 46k/yr= 138k

I didn't throw in interest. Also, if I do a dual degree, it'd be another year.

Retake isn't really an option. I'm too involved with volunteering, school, and work to dedicate the time necessary to study for a retake. It sucks, but I've just got to accept that.

[bsktbll28082]

Richmond with no scholarship is a terrible idea

As are Emory and W&M. OP, you say you will be unhappy making 50k. These schools won't give you a decent shot of a good job (read: six figures). Retake the LSAT and reapply.

Just unhappy making 50k for the rest of my life. I'm not expecting to come out with six figures.

I'm not going to law school to makes lots of money. Kinda want to help people (obviously lawyer is the best job for that ). I care a bit about future job prospects, but if UR positions me decently well in Virginia...I'm kinda okay with that.

[rad lulz]

Retake isn't really an option. I'm too involved with volunteering, school, and work to dedicate the time necessary to study for a retake. It sucks, but I've just got to accept that.

Then don't go

Sticker at any of these is absolutely asinine

[hephaestus]

Retake isn't really an option. I'm too involved with volunteering, school, and work to dedicate the time necessary to study for a retake. It sucks, but I've just got to accept that.

Then don't go

Sticker at any of these is absolutely asinine

This. And you are contradicting yourself. You say you want to make more than 50k, but don't care about making six figures. Law salaries are bimodal, and there are very few jobs that are more than 60k but less than six figures.
Get a year of work experience and retake during that year.

[bsktbll28082]

Retake isn't really an option. I'm too involved with volunteering, school, and work to dedicate the time necessary to study for a retake. It sucks, but I've just got to accept that.

Then don't go

Sticker at any of these is absolutely asinine

This. And you are contradicting yourself. You say you want to make more than 50k, but don't care about making six figures. Law salaries are bimodal, and there are very few jobs that are more than 60k but less than six figures.
Get a year of work experience and retake during that year.

Didn't know that about the salaries. That's interesting.

Would Richmond really be that bad then? The students seemed happy with their choice.

[hephaestus]

More information on salaries here:
http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib
The three big spikes on the graph are at 160k (big law market), 45k and 60k. There is very, very little inbetween.

And who were the richmond students you talked to? Were they employed? Did they come from a variety of class ranks? Its hard to imagine that someone in the top 10% is going to be as happy as the person below median. 1Ls at many schools are happy with their choices because they have not gone through recruiting yet and assume that they will be successful.

[romothesavior]

So let me get this straight... you're looking to take out 150-200k+ to go to schools where the majority of students are either graduating unemployed or into jobs making mid-five figures, and yet you're adamant that you don't want to start out making mid-five figures? Ummm... what?

These are terrible, terrible, terrible options at the price tags. Rushing into these options (which you seem to recognize are not good) would be incredibly naive, and quite honestly, lazy. You want to make good money, but you aren't willing to show some persistence and work for it by getting a better school/scholarship offer?

You need to take a year off, retake the LSAT, and do this thing right (it is your financial and career future after all), or don't go to law school. If you go to one of these schools at or near sticker, you will likely regret it for the rest of your life, and that's not an exaggeration in the slightest.

[rad lulz]

Would Richmond really be that bad then?

Yes

[WokeUpInACar]

So let me get this straight... you're looking to take out 150-200k+ to go to schools where the majority of students are either graduating unemployed or into jobs making mid-five figures, and yet you're adamant that you don't want to start out making mid-five figures? Ummm... what?

These are terrible, terrible, terrible options at the price tags. Rushing into these options (which you seem to recognize are not good) would be incredibly naive, and quite honestly, lazy. You want to make good money, but you aren't willing to show some persistence and work for it by getting a better school/scholarship offer?

You need to take a year off, retake the LSAT, and do this thing right (it is your financial and career future after all), or don't go to law school. If you go to one of these schools at or near sticker, you will likely regret it for the rest of your life, and that's not an exaggeration in the slightest.

Exactly this. Going to Richmond at sticker price is a life ruiner. Literally.

[romothesavior]

OP, have you looked at what your repayment would look like at 10, 15, 20 year repayment plans for 150,000-200,000+ in debt? Even with IBR/PAYE, you're looking at a lot of money coming out of your (likely) small salary for a long time, and we're looking at a quarter of a million to a half a million dollars in repayment over the life of the loan. All that for a little better than a 50/50 shot at landing a real lawyer job out of law school, and one that will likely pay less than $60,000 a year to start? Yeah, not such a good investment.

[bsktbll28082]

It sounds like a lot of people are referencing how much it'll cost.

Does it change anyone's answer if the fact is I only have to take out ~50% in loans? The rest will be covered by personal funds and outside scholarship. Still not ideal, but at least I don't have to take out all loans.

ImNoScar- The students were at the open house. Obviously they want to put on a good impression. They were employeed though (one with a clerkship, the other somewhere in town I think).

I appreciate all your information!

[WokeUpInACar]

How many times have you taken the LSAT and how long did you prepare?

[bsktbll28082]

How many times have you taken the LSAT and how long did you prepare?

Twice. Highest was 159. A lot lower than my practice tests (usually mid 160s). Prepared from around February until June, then retook in October. So on and off the first time (about 3 months) and a lot more focused the second (another three months). I don't think retaking yet again would change how I perform at the actual test :/

[WokeUpInACar]

How many times have you taken the LSAT and how long did you prepare?

Twice. Highest was 159. A lot lower than my practice tests (usually mid 160s). Prepared from around February until June, then retook in October. So on and off the first time (about 3 months) and a lot more focused the second (another three months). I don't think retaking yet again would change how I perform at the actual test :/

It sounds like you can do better man. I know that test is a bitch, and picking all the prep materials back up after thinking you were done with it is an awful feeling, but you just cannot attend Richmond. Considering personal funds and outside scholarship, W&M or Emory wouldn't be horrible decisions, but getting off the WL at those places is not going to be very likely. Also you seem to be placing far too much emphasis on your interactions with admissions staff, when employment opportunities should be your first and foremost consideration. Scoring in the mid 160s would vastly improve your options, you really need to retake and reapply dude.

[timbs4339]

From experience at ASW events for my school, they tend to trot out the successful or overly peppy, cheerleader students. Makes sense obviously, but you have to adjust what they say accordingly.