Should I convince my friend to reapply? Forum

Bob-Loblaw 1 · Post by **Bob-Loblaw 1** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:24 pm

Hello ladies and gentlemen,

So my buddy with whom I went through the LSAT process ended up with a 166/3.6x.
However, he didn't apply until January, and has subsequently been rejected/wait listed at almost all the schools to which he applied.
At this point his best option is Loyola Marymount (LA) with a 90k scholarship over three years.

I am considering trying to convince him to work for a year and reapply next cycle, as I believe that with a year of WE and sending out applications in September could yield better results.

Thoughts?

moonman157 · Post by **moonman157** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:27 pm

Yes, and while you're at him tell him to retake as well.

DoveBodyWash · Post by **DoveBodyWash** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:27 pm

Bob-Loblaw 1 wrote:Hello ladies and gentlemen,

So my buddy with whom I went through the LSAT process ended up with a 166/3.6x.
However, he didn't apply until January, and has subsequently been rejected/wait listed at almost all the schools to which he applied.
At this point his best option is Loyola Marymount (LA) with a 90k scholarship over three years.

I am considering trying to convince him to work for a year and reapply next cycle, as I believe that with a year of WE and sending out applications in September could yield better results.

Thoughts?

WTF!?

Loyola with a 166/3.6X is a HUGE waste. Even if he didn't re-take and just sat on his ass for a year he would get better results by re-applying. But yes. He needs to re-take and re-apply. WE is sort of irrelevant other than for NU and whatever experience he might personally gain from it. (Maybe he'll decide to not go to law school or something)

Bob-Loblaw 1 · Post by **Bob-Loblaw 1** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:29 pm

Yes, and while you're at him tell him to retake as well.

I was actually thinking of doing that as well. However when we studied (and we took a course) he never broke 170.
I'm not sure, honestly, if he would do much better than 166.

DoveBodyWash · Post by **DoveBodyWash** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:31 pm

Bob-Loblaw 1 wrote:
Yes, and while you're at him tell him to retake as well.
I was actually thinking of doing that as well. However when we studied (and we took a course) he never broke 170.
I'm not sure, honestly, if he would do much better than 166.

Even if he doesn't improve he would still be better off by re-applying.

guinness1547 · Post by **guinness1547** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:33 pm

The answer is yes, but try and be tactful about it. Telling people they're making a huge mistake can be tricky. And definitely try and tell him to retake as well.

moonman157 · Post by **moonman157** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:34 pm

Bob-Loblaw 1 wrote:
Yes, and while you're at him tell him to retake as well.
I was actually thinking of doing that as well. However when we studied (and we took a course) he never broke 170.
I'm not sure, honestly, if he would do much better than 166.

If he's taking a year off, it doesn't hurt at all. I'll be the first one to say that TLS on a whole overestimates the ease with which one can score a 170+ on the actual test, but there's no sense in not spending more time studying and retaking a 166.

CaptainLeela · Post by **CaptainLeela** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:36 pm

Welcome to TLS

Bob-Loblaw 1 · Post by **Bob-Loblaw 1** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:38 pm

The answer is yes, but try and be tactful about it. Telling people they're making a huge mistake can be tricky. And definitely try and tell him to retake as well.

Yeah I'm kind of nervous about how to approach this, as I'll be going to a t-10 this fall and I don't want it to seem like I am being elitist or mean or anything (especially since we went through the whole process together). At the end of the day, I simply don't want him to fuck himself over and drown in a sea of debt.

DoveBodyWash · Post by **DoveBodyWash** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:40 pm

Bob-Loblaw 1 wrote:
The answer is yes, but try and be tactful about it. Telling people they're making a huge mistake can be tricky. And definitely try and tell him to retake as well.
Yeah I'm kind of nervous about how to approach this, as I'll be going to a t-10 this fall and I don't want it to seem like I am being elitist or mean or anything (especially since we went through the whole process together). At the end of the day, I simply don't want him to fuck himself over and drown in a sea of debt.

This. Honestly there might be some resentment on his part, but he needs to understand that you're doing it out of genuine concern and not cuz you're being pretentious or anything. If he follows through, he'll thank you down the road.

efin12 · Post by **efin12** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:42 pm

Bob-Loblaw 1 wrote:
Yes, and while you're at him tell him to retake as well.
I was actually thinking of doing that as well. However when we studied (and we took a course) he never broke 170.
I'm not sure, honestly, if he would do much better than 166.

You can tell your friend about my story! I had similar numbers at the beginning of the cycle (167/3.6x) and applied ED to UVA but was wait listed. I retook in December and raised my score to a 173 and actually ended up turning down my UVA offer (with $75k) to attend Columbia with money (and currently on Harvard wait list). Retaking is absolutely the best option here.

As far as having already taken an LSAT prep course, that doesn't really mean anything. Courses are pointless (in my experience). I couldn't break a 163 after my Kaplan course and had many sleepless nights thinking I was a complete idiot. Until your friend self-studies for a couple of months using Powerscore and Manhattan, I doubt he's reached his maximum potential. Feel free to PM me with any questions

dissonance1848 · Post by **dissonance1848** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:43 pm

Hi! In 2011 I was staring down the barrel of going to Temple and/or riding out a bunch of waitlists or reapplying.

Now, I'm trying to decide between Duke & Michigan. Or maybe Northwestern or Penn if I get lucky off of holds/waitlists. Guess how fucking happy I am that I found TLS and people talked to me about waiting a few years?! SO FUCKING HAPPY!

Please feel free to PM me, but seriously, that's an enormous waste, as others have said. I've been in those exact shoes and waiting was 1000% the right decision. I don't have enough good things to say about reapplying.

TLS should have a testimonials section, would make it easier to persuade naive and gullible 0Ls into making the right choices.

FlowBro · Post by **FlowBro** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:48 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:
Hi! In 2011 I was staring down the barrel of going to Temple and/or riding out a bunch of waitlists or reapplying.

Now, I'm trying to decide between Duke & Michigan. Or maybe Northwestern or Penn if I get lucky off of holds/waitlists. Guess how fucking happy I am that I found TLS and people talked to me about waiting a few years?! SO FUCKING HAPPY!

Please feel free to PM me, but seriously, that's an enormous waste, as others have said. I've been in those exact shoes and waiting was 1000% the right decision. I don't have enough good things to say about reapplying.
TLS should have a testimonials section, would make it easier to persuade naive and gullible 0Ls into making the right choices.

THIS

ManoftheHour · Post by **ManoftheHour** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:53 pm

Bob-Loblaw 1 wrote:Hello ladies and gentlemen,

So my buddy with whom I went through the LSAT process ended up with a 166/3.6x.
However, he didn't apply until January, and has subsequently been rejected/wait listed at almost all the schools to which he applied.
At this point his best option is Loyola Marymount (LA) with a 90k scholarship over three years.

I am considering trying to convince him to work for a year and reapply next cycle, as I believe that with a year of WE and sending out applications in September could yield better results.

Thoughts?

That scholarship comes with a 50% stip. Definitely tell him to retake. Or at the very least, put down a deposit at LMU and then retake June. If he does well, reapply. If he bombs it, then go to LMU.

Although in his situation, even if he did nothing and reapplied earlier, he should have a much better cycle next year.

CaptainLeela · Post by **CaptainLeela** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:55 pm

Welcome to TLS

annjel · Post by **annjel** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:01 pm

I would like to add that I'm already on track to re-apply next cycle while gearing up for a retake in June.

I got into UCLA which is not horrible by any means. In fact, I'm actually from LA and went there for undergrad so it would be the easiest school to transition into. But I have spent the last two years studying for the LSAT and know full well that I underperformed in December when I got a 168. I know that I could do better and have already pinpointed all the reasons why I failed to get a much higher score (lesson learned -- never talking to anyone during the break, otherwise, i would have owned the games section, but i'm over it, sorta). I'm retaking in June as I said, and it's my last shot. If I get the score I want, I'm re-applying no question. If I don't, I'll take UCLA and make the best out of it.

In other words, YES TELL YOUR FRIEND TO RE-APPLY. And when I have more time to chit chat after the June LSAT, I want to talk to you, CaptainLeela, because your story is amazing!

I know it's going to suck telling my friends and family and having to "explain myself." But fuck that. Rewards, like an offer to your dream school, are worth taking risks, being patient, and working harder when others have already given up.

EDIT: Also, just like your friend, I applied last minute, literally day it was due for most of the top 20 schools. And I can honestly say my application overall was at my 70% best. Not only did I get into UCLA but got WL'ed at Penn, Virginia, and Georgetown.

NOW IMAGINE IF I ACTUALLY TRIED MY BEST AND APPLIED ON DAY ONE ... that's what I'm telling myself. To be honest, I didn't even want to apply this year and only did it in response to mounting pressure from family and friends. They think I'm getting old (I'm 24). I figured I was going to get rejected across the board and viewed all my apps as hail mary's. Look what happened. But that's not the end goal, the end goal for your friend is doing his best and taking all that advantages that he has available to him such as re-taking and re-applying but early.

Tekrul · Post by **Tekrul** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:05 pm

Direct him to this thread and let him hear it from strangers in addition to your words as a caring friend. Retake reapply is absolutely the right choice.

Bob-Loblaw 1 · Post by **Bob-Loblaw 1** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:11 pm

I got into UCLA which is not horrible by any means. In fact, I'm actually from LA and went there for undergrad so it would be the easiest school to transition into.

Nice I went to UCLA for undergrad and almost decided to stay for law school too!

But it seems we have a consensus. Time to figure out how to start this conversation haha...

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:55 pm

cusenation wrote: He needs to re-take and re-apply.

WE is sort of irrelevant other than for NU and whatever experience he might personally gain from it. (Maybe he'll decide to not go to law school or something)

First part of this is true.

Second part is not. Northwestern has a stated emphasis on work experience, but all top law schools will want to see that you have spent your time productively unless you are at both 75ths. You do not want to have long gaps in your work history, undergrad summers wasted, ect. at T14 if you can avoid it. You can see this all the time when people who are working part time or just studying for the lsat aren't performing with median numbers. Saving money will also help bring down your debt load when you finish by helping cover CoL.

Also, your friend won't want to hear that they should do "nothing" instead of law school.

Snowboarder1588 · Post by **Snowboarder1588** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:22 pm

I would like to thank you all for convincing me to retake and reapply. I have a couple ok offers, but I applied early February. I started studying again and plan on retaking in June. I've realized that everyone suggests applying early is key and you know, learning from others is better than failing (not saying any of you failed) and having to learn from your own mistake.