$30K total aid to UC Irvine... would you do it?? Forum

[gitguy]

UCI is my top choice. I only got $15K over three years merit award, I expect $15K in grant aid over three years (although that is very conservative based on my means, but for planning purposes let's assume that figure).

ASW solidified their position as my top choice. They have a generous LRAP program, and I do intend to pursue public interest work that would highly likely qualify on the basis of salary for full or partial reimbursement (provided, of course, I can find a government / non-profit job) over each six month period.

I was a UCI undergrad, and I live very nearby so it would serve to eliminate costs of relocating.

I just want feedback. Keep it civil (I know people get riled up over UCI), and try not to "re-take, bro" too much. Thanks!

[Ruxin1]

UCI is my top choice. I only got $15K over three years merit award, I expect $15K in grant aid over three years (although that is very conservative based on my means, but for planning purposes let's assume that figure).

ASW solidified their position as my top choice. They have a generous LRAP program, and I do intend to pursue public interest work that would highly likely qualify on the basis of salary for full or partial reimbursement (provided, of course, I can find a government / non-profit job) over each six month period.

I was a UCI undergrad, and I live very nearby so it would serve to eliminate costs of relocating.

I just want feedback. Keep it civil (I know people get riled up over UCI), and try not to "re-take, bro" too much. Thanks!

What is total COA? like 200k right?

[andres]

How much is need based aid and how much is merit aid? If it's 30k in total (for all three years combine), it's not worth it.

[DoveBodyWash]

I do think re-taking/re-applying would definitely yield better results...but just from looking at your LSN profile it looks like you could have applied to a lot more schools but didn't.

I guess this depends on whether or not you think UCI's PI placement will maintain by the time you're looking for a position. If you get LRAP and solid PI job that you can/and wouldn't mind keeping for 10 years, then i could see this working. But California as a state is pretty broke right now, and UCI's placement doesn't really hold up outside of CA.

FWIW I withdrew from my cycle last year and re-applied. I would do the same were I in your situation.

[timbs4339]

Do you have the need based aid or a promise of need based aid already? Need based aid is effectively non-existent at most law schools not named HYS.

[DoveBodyWash]

Also, wtf did UCI do at their ASW? This is like the 9th time today i've seen a poster say that their ASW sealed the deal for them.

[NoodleyOne]

Also, wtf did UCI do at their ASW? This is like the 9th time today i've seen a poster say that their ASW sealed the deal for them.

Hookers and blow.

[gitguy]

UCI is my top choice. I only got $15K over three years merit award, I expect $15K in grant aid over three years (although that is very conservative based on my means, but for planning purposes let's assume that figure).

ASW solidified their position as my top choice. They have a generous LRAP program, and I do intend to pursue public interest work that would highly likely qualify on the basis of salary for full or partial reimbursement (provided, of course, I can find a government / non-profit job) over each six month period.

I was a UCI undergrad, and I live very nearby so it would serve to eliminate costs of relocating.

I just want feedback. Keep it civil (I know people get riled up over UCI), and try not to "re-take, bro" too much. Thanks!

What is total COA? like 200k right?

I'm personally looking at about $180K.

[Ruxin1]

UCI is my top choice. I only got $15K over three years merit award, I expect $15K in grant aid over three years (although that is very conservative based on my means, but for planning purposes let's assume that figure).

ASW solidified their position as my top choice. They have a generous LRAP program, and I do intend to pursue public interest work that would highly likely qualify on the basis of salary for full or partial reimbursement (provided, of course, I can find a government / non-profit job) over each six month period.

I was a UCI undergrad, and I live very nearby so it would serve to eliminate costs of relocating.

I just want feedback. Keep it civil (I know people get riled up over UCI), and try not to "re-take, bro" too much. Thanks!

What is total COA? like 200k right?

I'm personally looking at about $180K.

Before the 7.9% interest?

[gitguy]

Do you have the need based aid or a promise of need based aid already? Need based aid is effectively non-existent at most law schools not named HYS.

UCI does need based grants. There will be need based aid when my profile is complete, they require a supplement to the FAFSA. I think I can expect at least the $15K, if not more.

[gitguy]

UCI is my top choice. I only got $15K over three years merit award, I expect $15K in grant aid over three years (although that is very conservative based on my means, but for planning purposes let's assume that figure).

ASW solidified their position as my top choice. They have a generous LRAP program, and I do intend to pursue public interest work that would highly likely qualify on the basis of salary for full or partial reimbursement (provided, of course, I can find a government / non-profit job) over each six month period.

I was a UCI undergrad, and I live very nearby so it would serve to eliminate costs of relocating.

I just want feedback. Keep it civil (I know people get riled up over UCI), and try not to "re-take, bro" too much. Thanks!

What is total COA? like 200k right?

I'm personally looking at about $180K.

Before the 7.9% interest?

You got it.

[DoveBodyWash]

You should consider that UCI's first two classes only went because they got full-rides and half-rides respectively. Granted they needed more incentive since they were the first to "take the plunge" but are you really prepared to pay several times what your own 3L's and recent grads paid just based on the success of only one class of graduates? I mean..there were only 56 of them. It's not exactly representative.

FWIW I think UCI is heading in a great direction but i think it's too soon for anyone to take out those kinds of loans to attend such a new and untested school. If going for free or at a significant discount, then sure. But 180k before interest? nooo way

[Ruxin1]

So you'll be looking at over 200k after interest, don't do it.

[timbs4339]

If you wouldn't pay 200K for UCH or UCD, don't pay it for UCI. Simple.

[dissonance1848]

UCI for 200k in debt? Never worth it. Even if you want PI.

Just look at their data for 2012..... and remember that the class size has doubled,

effectively cutting their placement by around half..... and that the class size is still

going up, along with tuition......

And PI is considered harder to get than biglaw on these boards as well.....

Really OP, please retake.

[DoveBodyWash]

UCI for 200k in debt? Never worth it. Even if you want PI.

Just look at their data for 2012..... and remember that the class size has doubled,

effectively cutting their placement by around half..... and that the class size is still

going up, along with tuition......

And PI is considered harder to get than biglaw on these boards as well.....

Really OP, please retake.

tbf i don't think it's accurate to assume that placement size is halved just cuz the class size doubled, i don't think the relationship is so direct. But suffice it to say that placement is definitely diminished by bigger class sizes..

And also..OP..i can't stress this enough. California. is. broke.

[bananasplit19]

Only $10k/yr? Boy, that's tough, even with in-state tuition (which isn't that much cheaper anyways).

As bullish as I am about Irvine, I don't think you should take that risk. With that level of debt, you're basically throwing yourself at the mercy of the BigLaw roulette wheel to stay above water (and while I do feel that UCI is the real deal, it doesn't sound like your cup of tea), or snag an LRAP-eligible job. Those LRAP-eligible jobs aren't something you can pick up off the street: from what I hear, they can be incredibly difficult to nab, and California is so bad that the words 'hiring freeze' are bandied about like it's the status quo. This is all hearsay, but it's coming from a T6-graduated friend of mine who got a LRAP-eligible CA job and evidently had to to terrible things to get it. Terrible things. Like, I think he may have had to kill a guy.

OP, I think you should seriously consider waiting a year and trying for bigger and better schools and/or scholly amounts. cusenation is a shining example of that strategy. You should PM him for more details; I hear he doesn't get many PMs and gets lonely.

***

In regards to Irvine's ASW, the hookers and blow were fine, but Chemerinsky is obviously an extremely compelling speaker, and the entire event (at least, the part that I was privy to) seemed tailored to hammer two points:

1) UCI isn't like other schools, which is true on its face: it's got a unique combination of a new, motivated faculty/staff that actively bends over backwards to get their students jobs, and a tiny class size that allows them to bend over backwards for every student (even with the uptick to 120 students, it's still smaller than just about all other comers). The school started up right during the economic downturn, so the emphasis on getting their students geared up for the big bad world is in the school's DNA. You really can't say that about a lot of the good schools out there, some of which are seemingly still in pre-2008 mode.

2) Everyone is Stepford Wives-level nice. Students, faculty, the hookers, everyone was just farting out rainbows.

All in all, it wasn't just a standard come-to-law-school schtick, it was something different, which I think is why it stood out to so many people.

[teiswei]

UCI for 200k in debt? Never worth it. Even if you want PI.

Just look at their data for 2012..... and remember that the class size has doubled,

effectively cutting their placement by around half..... and that the class size is still

going up, along with tuition......

And PI is considered harder to get than biglaw on these boards as well.....

Really OP, please retake.

I understand the caution and agree but the bolded bit is a terrible fallacy. Does that mean a school that halves their class size doubles their employment numbers? Negative

Edit: scooped

[gitguy]

I really appreciate everyone's input. Problem is, I did wait and retake. UCI was my target. Another year, another cycle... very hard to swallow. I'm set to leave my job to attend school. This is three years in the making. The most attractive alternative option for me right now is a nice package I got to U Maryland. Hence, my distress.

[NoodleyOne]

I really appreciate everyone's input. Problem is, I did wait and retake. UCI was my target. Another year, another cycle... very hard to swallow. I'm set to leave my job to attend school. This is three years in the making. The most attractive alternative option for me right now is a nice package I got to U Maryland. Hence, my distress.

Get a new target.

[Golden Bear 11]

plugged into the georgetown calculator

OP would owe 215K at repayment. Even if he got a 2L SA, it wouldn't change the amount of debt since OP would probably lose the need based grant for 3L.

Retake and apply more broadly next cycle

[DoveBodyWash]

I really appreciate everyone's input. Problem is, I did wait and retake. UCI was my target. Another year, another cycle... very hard to swallow. I'm set to leave my job to attend school. This is three years in the making. The most attractive alternative option for me right now is a nice package I got to U Maryland. Hence, my distress.

Hmm..I'm going to deviate from the conventional wisdom of the TLS hive mind and accept that re-taking/re-applying isn't an option. I sympathize with the job part because my company also knows I'm leaving for school...and I don't think i'd be too keen to sheepishly ask to stay longer last minute. (Although plenty of TLS posters will say that this is a small small price to pay for the presumed benefits of re-applying, but again, I'm accepting that this isn't an option)

Are the UCI's awards locked? There's no room to negotiate for more? I dunno how their need-grants work so I'll just assume that 15k is what you'll end up getting. if it's more, then great.

Have you considered taking the June LSAT? Maybe a higher LSAT will draw more interest from UCI. Are you eligible for PAYE? (Did you receive any federal loans before October 2007?)

Right now it looks like the only options are to aggressively negotiate more scholly, and i mean aggressively. Aka you bother them all the way through July and August. And/or taking the June LSAT to give you more leverage. Or you could apply for as many outside scholarships as you can.

[sinfiery]

You had no chance when you added "would you do it?" to the tittle.

What job are you leaving and why?

If you are PI focused and will rely on PSLF or LRAP, I don't think it's the end of the world...depending on how easy it is to get a job that qualifies for each of these from UCI.

Have you done that research? Please do so and report back here.

[DoveBodyWash]

You had no chance when you added "would you do it?" to the tittle.

What job are you leaving and why?

If you are PI focused and will rely on PSLF or LRAP, I don't think it's the end of the world...depending on how easy it is to get a job that qualifies for each of these from UCI.

Have you done that research? Please do so and report back here.

+1

I think OP is looking more for affirmation than anything else. Nothing wrong with that, we all need some affirmation sometimes. As long as you've done the requisite research and know what risks you're taking.

[dissonance1848]

tbf i don't think it's accurate to assume that placement size is halved just cuz the class size doubled, i don't think the relationship is so direct.

I understand the caution and agree but the bolded bit is a terrible fallacy. Does that mean a school that halves their class size doubles their employment numbers? Negative

I will obviously grant that my initial statement was hyperbolic, and that there is not a direct linear relationship between class size and placement power.

However, you must get the gist of what I was saying there, as well as that there are additional caveats which I did not mention which obviously will have significant marginal impact on the prospective employment outcomes of UCI's student body, namely the self-selection which occured in the two initial classes which recieved substantial subsidies from the school, as well as the initial deployment of social capital by the Dean and faculty.

You had no chance when you added "would you do it?" to the tittle.

What job are you leaving and why?

If you are PI focused and will rely on PSLF or LRAP, I don't think it's the end of the world...depending on how easy it is to get a job that qualifies for each of these from UCI.

Have you done that research? Please do so and report back here.

+ 10