NYU v. Chicago v. GULC v. Duke Forum

[trobriander]

With deposit deadlines fast approaching, I have narrowed my options down to 4 schools and hope to narrow down to two within the next week or so. Any information I can use toward my decision is much appreciated. I want to practice in the public sector and am interested in criminal law, and I would like to eventually practice in a large market like NY, DC, or Chicago. Financially, Duke, GULC, and Chicago are looking very comparable with the scholarships. I am waiting on appeal decisions at Chicago and GULC and haven't tried to appeal at Duke, though I might. Each of these schools are highly attractive choices to me for different reasons. Let me know if I need to provide additional information! Thanks in advance.

[Doorkeeper]

Chicago is the obvious choice here.

[Bronck]

Chicago is the obvious choice here.

[hephaestus]

UChi is easily worth the price difference from Duke. This is barely a choice.

[GMGP]

Appeal to Duke and see what happens. Also consider CoL and loan forgiveness. I'd also consider quality of life as well as rankings but that makes me the odd one out on TLS

[NinerFan]

Chicago is the obvious choice here.

[Pope Francis]

Chicago is the obvious choice here.

[trobriander]

Appeal to Duke and see what happens. Also consider CoL and loan forgiveness. I'd also consider quality of life as well as rankings but that makes me the odd one out on TLS

I agree with you! If I were just looking at rankings, Chicago would be the obvious choice. But all of these schools are top choices, and each have good public interest opportunities.

[gaud]

You shouldn't even be considering GULC in my opinion.

To echo what everyone else has said: Chicago. Then I'd go NYU - Duke

[trobriander]

For everyone saying Chicago, why Chicago (besides ranking)?

[20141023]

.

[sinfiery]

OP, would you take biglaw? 20yes/80% no? Or are you absolutely sure you want public sector work?

Are criminal law positions available for LRAP? Which school offers the best LRAP?

[dixiecupdrinking]

What does "public sector" and "criminal law" mean to you? If you want to be a public defender or something similar I'd probably take NYU. The network matters, having dozens of like-minded people for support matters, and the extra debt does not matter (much).

If you don't really know what it is you're looking for and will just end up going into biglaw, then maybe you should just go to Chicago.

[trobriander]

OP, would you take biglaw? 20yes/80% no? Or are you absolutely sure you want public sector work?

Are criminal law positions available for LRAP? Which school offers the best LRAP?

I am 95% sure I want public sector work and wouldn't go for biglaw. Criminal law positions are available for LRAP as long as they are with government/nonprofit. It looks like Chicago has the best LRAP just because it includes clerkships (my short-term goal after finishing law school) and excludes spousal income/assets. GULC has a great LRAP too. NYU's would be 3rd, with Duke as the most restrictive. I don't want to make my decision solely based on finances, but I am definitely considering LRAP generosity!

[trobriander]

What does "public sector" and "criminal law" mean to you? If you want to be a public defender or something similar I'd probably take NYU. The network matters, having dozens of like-minded people for support matters, and the extra debt does not matter (much).

If you don't really know what it is you're looking for and will just end up going into biglaw, then maybe you should just go to Chicago.

I would like to be a public defender, but I said "criminal law" because I am keeping my options open. I loved the network of aspiring crim defenders at NYU, but I was also a little worried that this would mean higher competition for similar positions. Thoughts?

Thanks for your thoughts on the debt! I suppose the extra debt doesn't matter to me as much as someone who is planning to go into an LRAP-ineligible field, but it still makes me uncomfortable. At least I wouldn't be taking it at sticker.

[hicrhodus]

I'm a 1L at NYU who will be working at a public defender this summer and likely pursuing a career in indigent criminal defense. NYU has probably the best training (i.e., clinics and simulation courses) and alumni network for public defense in the country. NYU alums started and/or run all the major public defense orgs in NYC (e.g., Legal Aid, Bronx Defenders, NDS, Brooklyn Defenders) and NYU has a strong network at major public defender offices across the country, such as PDS (DC), CPCS (Boston), and OPD (NOLA). Public defenders offices don't have hiring quotas for particular schools, but they do have a limited set of schools they recruit from and because of the training and critical mass of interested students, NYU is at the top of the list. If your goal is criminal defense in a major city, you should be joining us at NYU--the only reason you should even consider U of Chi with that goal is if you want to end up in the midwest. The difference in scholarships shouldn't be a consideration as you're going to need to use the LRAP anyway--while the LRAP should be a major consideration, NYU will cover clerkships as well.

PM me if you want to discuss this further.

[Big Dog]

"Public sector" (whatever than means) and NYC screams NYU.

[sinfiery]

I was going to say Chi because of their clerkship advantage but that possibility really isn't what you should make your decision on given the year to year fluctuations and rather small chance of achieving the outcome. If that poster is right about NYUs dedication to your field of choice, it seems like the right pick.

[dixiecupdrinking]

What does "public sector" and "criminal law" mean to you? If you want to be a public defender or something similar I'd probably take NYU. The network matters, having dozens of like-minded people for support matters, and the extra debt does not matter (much).

If you don't really know what it is you're looking for and will just end up going into biglaw, then maybe you should just go to Chicago.

I would like to be a public defender, but I said "criminal law" because I am keeping my options open. I loved the network of aspiring crim defenders at NYU, but I was also a little worried that this would mean higher competition for similar positions. Thoughts?

Thanks for your thoughts on the debt! I suppose the extra debt doesn't matter to me as much as someone who is planning to go into an LRAP-ineligible field, but it still makes me uncomfortable. At least I wouldn't be taking it at sticker.

I know what you mean about competition for jobs, but I think it's not a big deal. First of all, these organizations are not hiring as if they have a quota for graduates from each school. They're not taking one NYU and one Chicago grad. If both NYU grads are better qualified than the Chicago grad, they're taking both NYU grads. So there is only more "competition" in the sense that you know who you're competing with.

And even though there is that competitive element, the public interest student community at NYU is very supportive. Everyone knows the job market is tough but everyone is generally happy to see each other be successful—it bears well on the school and on its public interest reputation.

The other element is that public interest hiring is not highly structured like biglaw hiring. It helps to be able to compare notes with other people who are applying and interviewing for jobs and fellowships. It also helps to have a support network of people who are, say, second semester 3Ls and don't have jobs yet, not because they failed but because that's just how it works. At a school where there are only a few people who actually wanted to do public interest work, you're more likely to feel like a pariah. (This feeling seems to exist even at NYU, where there are probably 50+ people per class who were dedicated to public interest from day one; I can't imagine what it would be like elsewhere.)

This is all without even touching on the career services, the alumni network, and the clinical opportunities, all of which I suspect are a little to a lot better at NYU.

[Micdiddy]

If you're also interested in quality of living Chicago happens to be the greatest city on earth.

UChi is definitely the best option. You probably know this but in your heart of hearts you always wanted to go to NYU or Duke or something and you were thinking "if I can just get 3 people to say it's ok, I can justify doing it!" or something like that. Or maybe you were pretty darn sure Chi was right, but wanted final opinions. Not that this is a bad thing, I made a thread with my choice already 90% made just for final, total confirmation, and now you have it as well: Chi.

[dixiecupdrinking]

If you're also interested in quality of living Chicago happens to be the greatest city on earth.

UChi is definitely the best option. You probably know this but in your heart of hearts you always wanted to go to NYU or Duke or something and you were thinking "if I can just get 3 people to say it's ok, I can justify doing it!" or something like that. Or maybe you were pretty darn sure Chi was right, but wanted final opinions. Not that this is a bad thing, I made a thread with my choice already 90% made just for final, total confirmation, and now you have it as well: Chi.

Did you read the thread?

[Micdiddy]

If you're also interested in quality of living Chicago happens to be the greatest city on earth.

UChi is definitely the best option. You probably know this but in your heart of hearts you always wanted to go to NYU or Duke or something and you were thinking "if I can just get 3 people to say it's ok, I can justify doing it!" or something like that. Or maybe you were pretty darn sure Chi was right, but wanted final opinions. Not that this is a bad thing, I made a thread with my choice already 90% made just for final, total confirmation, and now you have it as well: Chi.

Did you read the thread?

Yes. And then your inane response made me waste time reading it all over again. Thanks.

[Emma.]

I'm a 1L at NYU who will be working at a public defender this summer and likely pursuing a career in indigent criminal defense. NYU has probably the best training (i.e., clinics and simulation courses) and alumni network for public defense in the country. NYU alums started and/or run all the major public defense orgs in NYC (e.g., Legal Aid, Bronx Defenders, NDS, Brooklyn Defenders) and NYU has a strong network at major public defender offices across the country, such as PDS (DC), CPCS (Boston), and OPD (NOLA). Public defenders offices don't have hiring quotas for particular schools, but they do have a limited set of schools they recruit from and because of the training and critical mass of interested students, NYU is at the top of the list. If your goal is criminal defense in a major city, you should be joining us at NYU--the only reason you should even consider U of Chi with that goal is if you want to end up in the midwest. The difference in scholarships shouldn't be a consideration as you're going to need to use the LRAP anyway--while the LRAP should be a major consideration, NYU will cover clerkships as well.

PM me if you want to discuss this further.

The bolded is certainly an overstatement. I have 3L friends who have successfully secured public defender positions all over the country, including in NYC. Chicago has the Federal Criminal Justice Clinic, which I believe is still the only clinic in the country that exclusively represents indigent clients in fed court. I know a bunch of students in the FCJC and they have had a great experience. The professor who runs that clinic has great connections across the country, and works really hard to help her students get public defender gigs. There are several other clinics at Chicago that would be relevant to OPs interests, but FCJC seems like a no-brainer.

UChi's LRAP also covers clerkships.

[dixiecupdrinking]

If you're also interested in quality of living Chicago happens to be the greatest city on earth.

UChi is definitely the best option. You probably know this but in your heart of hearts you always wanted to go to NYU or Duke or something and you were thinking "if I can just get 3 people to say it's ok, I can justify doing it!" or something like that. Or maybe you were pretty darn sure Chi was right, but wanted final opinions. Not that this is a bad thing, I made a thread with my choice already 90% made just for final, total confirmation, and now you have it as well: Chi.

Did you read the thread?

Yes. And then your inane response made me waste time reading it all over again. Thanks.

I ask because your post has nothing to do with anything that's been discussed here or that the OP has said, if you want to talk about inane.

[Micdiddy]

If you're also interested in quality of living Chicago happens to be the greatest city on earth.

UChi is definitely the best option. You probably know this but in your heart of hearts you always wanted to go to NYU or Duke or something and you were thinking "if I can just get 3 people to say it's ok, I can justify doing it!" or something like that. Or maybe you were pretty darn sure Chi was right, but wanted final opinions. Not that this is a bad thing, I made a thread with my choice already 90% made just for final, total confirmation, and now you have it as well: Chi.

Did you read the thread?

Yes. And then your inane response made me waste time reading it all over again. Thanks.

I ask because your post has nothing to do with anything that's been discussed here or that the OP has said, if you want to talk about inane.

Right, right, answering which school is a better choice has nothing to with the question of which school is a better choice. It's a form of narcissism to think that because a comment happens to be below yours that makes it a response to you (or even the three previous comments for that matter. Geez, imagine the derailment opportunities if everyone was forced to respond only to what was said above ).