Boalt v. Columbia Forum

[bosmer88]

Thanks for the advice.

[Rahviveh]

Boalt is a slam dunk in this case, but I don't understand how you got 90k COA...

[Ti Malice]

The difference in COA doesn't make sense here at all.

[smaug_]

Ultimately, I would like to do PI or government work. Ideally, I would like to work in DC or CA. While I wouldn't mind attending school in NYC for 3 years, I really don't have a desire to live there after law school.

Go to Boalt. I enjoy Columbia, but law school in general is about buying a ticket to EIP/connections. It's my impression that Boalt has good PI connections, and you're going to need to absolutely kill it to do government work or to go to DC. Especially given that you want to end up in CA, it's an easy choice.

[bosmer88]

Oops, I included cost of living in my grand totals. Hopefully that resolves the confusion. I will edit it.

Concerning CLS, I used the info from LST.

For Boalt, I already live near the law school, so calculating the cost of living plus the tuition was very easy for me to do.

[Ti Malice]

Oops, I included cost of living in my grand totals. Hopefully that clarifies.

It doesn't, because the difference between the two doesn't make any sense. Would you live with family if you attended Boalt?

By the way, COA includes tuition, COL, and all other fees.

[twinkletoes16]

Sorry I'm no help, but just curious- you submitted matching when and presumably got the 75k through that?

[BerkeleyBear]

So, you want to crack DC or CA? And Boalt has offered 75k? Well, I'd take Boalt and never look back.

[bosmer88]

Oops, I included cost of living in my grand totals. Hopefully that clarifies.

It doesn't, because the difference between the two doesn't make any sense. Would you live with family if you attended Boalt?

By the way, COA includes tuition, COL, and all other fees.

Why doesn't it make sense? I already have an apartment near Boalt that I currently live in. I included my current budget in that total.

Twinkletoes, yes, I got the $$ from the matching scholly program.

[Bronck]

CLS isn't worth sticker when you have other [as here, significantly] cheaper options in the lower T14, especially when you don't have an interest in working in NYC.

Take Boalt and run with it.

[Redfactor]

My family is also leaning towards CLS and would be willing to pay for it.

Normally I would be very hesitant to place undue cost burden on family. But, it sounds like they know the situation, and if they are willing to pay the extra 170k for a slightly higher ranked / more prestigious school, then I am cool with letting them. Some families have the financial means to do this. If their generosity isn't impacting their quality of life, then go to where you want.

I agree that Columbia has more portability than a degree from Berkeley. It truly is a national school. 9.2% of CLS grad took jobs in CA. I anticipate the number is that low only due to self-selection and not due to competition.

If I were in your shoes, I would go CLS and tell your folks of all the world-class opportunities if affords.

Good luck, there is no bad choice!

[smaug_]

I agree that Columbia has more portability than a degree from Berkeley. It truly is a national school. 9.2% of CLS grad took jobs in CA. I anticipate the number is that low only due to self-selection and not due to competition.

I don't know if I agree. Anyway you have two CLS students telling you to take Boalt, OP.

[camelcrema]

If the numbers are really that disparate, Boalt is probably the rational choice. CLS is probably more portable, but not 173k more portable.

But here's my question: Boalt's COA is approximately 220k. CLS is 263k. Subtract your 75k scholly from Boalt, and it's still 145k at Boalt. Where is the other 70k coming from?

[Ti Malice]

Oops, I included cost of living in my grand totals. Hopefully that clarifies.

It doesn't, because the difference between the two doesn't make any sense. Would you live with family if you attended Boalt?

By the way, COA includes tuition, COL, and all other fees.

Why doesn't it make sense? I already have an apartment near Boalt that I currently live in. I included my current budget in that total.

Twinkletoes, yes, I got the $$ from the matching scholly program.

It doesn't make sense because your $75K scholarship plus $90K, with tuition increases, will essentially only cover tuition and fees. Where's COL for Boalt? And if you're using LST for CLS (which includes estimated tuition increases and interest at graduation) but not for Boalt, you're using two different methods of calculating COA.

[BerkeleyBear]

My family is also leaning towards CLS and would be willing to pay for it.

Normally I would be very hesitant to place undue cost burden on family. But, it sounds like they know the situation, and if they are willing to pay the extra 170k for a slightly higher ranked / more prestigious school, then I am cool with letting them. Some families have the financial means to do this. If their generosity isn't impacting their quality of life, then go to where you want.

I agree that Columbia has more portability than a degree from Berkeley. It truly is a national school. 9.2% of CLS grad took jobs in CA. I anticipate the number is that low only due to self-selection and not due to competition.

If I were in your shoes, I would go CLS and tell your folks of all the world-class opportunities if affords.

Good luck, there is no bad choice!

Now I'm kind of confused. OP stated, "After taking into account my savings/other funds, the total cost (including both COA and COL) at both schools after 3 years would be the following:"
Idk if the "other funds" is his parents money? I was assuming it was, yet, if that isn't the case the argument for Berk should be even stronger. 90K compared to over 200K is a huge difference. The COL and COA seems off to me though but I'm sure OP knows better than we would.

[Emma.]

If those numbers are right, which seems questionable, you'd be crazy to take CLS. That is, unless forking out $170K is nothing to your family. If your folks take home 7 figures or something, then visit both and go to the place you like better.

[bosmer88]

Bear with me guys, math is obviously not my strong suit.

Let me know if I did something wrong.

So for Berkeley, I went with the tuition cost on LST. I added my own COL (which differs from LST since I already have an apt. in the area and planned to continue using it if I attended). I subtracted the scholly/savings/grants and got that final amount. That final amount would be what my family would pay off.

For CLS, I used LST's numbers and subtracted my savings and grants and got that final amount.

Edit: Realizing I screwed up Columbia's numbers. My apologies.

[camelcrema]

Bear with me guys, math is obvious not my strong suit.

Let me know if I did something wrong.

So for Berkeley, I went with the tuition cost on LST. I added my own COL (which differs from LST since I already have an apt. in the area and planned to continue using it if I attended). I subtracted the scholly/savings/grants and got that final amount.

For CLS, I used LST and subtracted my savings and grants and got that final amount.

Do you have ridiculously cheap rent or something? Could you show us the numbers so we know if/where there is a mistake?

[bosmer88]

Bear with me guys, math is obvious not my strong suit.

Let me know if I did something wrong.

So for Berkeley, I went with the tuition cost on LST. I added my own COL (which differs from LST since I already have an apt. in the area and planned to continue using it if I attended). I subtracted the scholly/savings/grants and got that final amount.

For CLS, I used LST and subtracted my savings and grants and got that final amount.

Do you have ridiculously cheap rent or something? Could you show us the numbers so we know if/where there is a mistake?

I'll put the numbers in.

[Redfactor]

I get the sense that most everyone reading this thread is treating this as a plug-n-play cost to benefit ratio for Boalt vs CLS.

I don't get the sense that this is the case though. Maybe I am interpreting the OP's situation wrongly, but it sounds like in either situation s/he wont have to take out loans. So fear of debt is a non-issue. Same with savings. S/he is expected to put their savings into law school and the rest is covered by family, no?

So from either school OP comes out of school in the same financial situation. Broke, but debt free.


And I totally understand why so many are hesitant to allow parents to pay so much money on a school that is maybe only marginally better (my personal situation would be like that), but some people have wealthy parents. And if OP's family is willing and happy to pay for the extra costs of CLS, then they probably know their financial situation better than us. People who are willing to throw another 170k at a legal education are most likely good with money. They know exactly what that money can buy if not spent on law school. If they are cool with it, there is no reason to protect them from themselves.

Plus there is the pride of being a parent. Providing opportunities (perceived or actual) can be a great source of pride to parents.

As long as they are not hurting themselves by giving too much (i.e. not taking vacations, postponing retirement, not buying / remodeling their dream home, not being able to provide college for other siblings / grandkids, or taking on ANY debt), then I say take the money if that's where your heart is and be appreciative of the opportunities your family has given you.

Just make sure that in either choice you make, thank your family for being so wonderful.

[bosmer88]

Bear with me guys, math is obvious not my strong suit.

Let me know if I did something wrong.

So for Berkeley, I went with the tuition cost on LST. I added my own COL (which differs from LST since I already have an apt. in the area and planned to continue using it if I attended). I subtracted the scholly/savings/grants and got that final amount.

For CLS, I used LST and subtracted my savings and grants and got that final amount.

Do you have ridiculously cheap rent or something? Could you show us the numbers so we know if/where there is a mistake?

I live in a cheaper area that few students live in. That's my guess as to why my rent isn't that much.

Boalt:
Tuition-$162,000 (roughly, from LST)
COL-$45,000 (Based off my current budget.)
COA-$207,000

207,000- (Scholly: 75,000 + Grant=10,000 + Savings: 30,000)= $92,000 is what my family would pay.

CLS:
COA: $231,000 (taken from LST)

231,000 -(Grants=10,000 + Savings: 30,000)= 191,000

[de5igual]

COL includes rent, utilities, food, books, insurance, etc. -> are these figures being factored in for Boalt?

[camelcrema]

Bear with me guys, math is obvious not my strong suit.

Let me know if I did something wrong.

So for Berkeley, I went with the tuition cost on LST. I added my own COL (which differs from LST since I already have an apt. in the area and planned to continue using it if I attended). I subtracted the scholly/savings/grants and got that final amount.

For CLS, I used LST and subtracted my savings and grants and got that final amount.

Do you have ridiculously cheap rent or something? Could you show us the numbers so we know if/where there is a mistake?

I live in a cheaper area that few students live in. That's my guess as to why my rent isn't that much.

Boalt:
Tuition-$162,000 (roughly, from LST)
COL-$45, 000 (Based off my current budget)
COA-$207,000

207,000- (Scholly: 75,000 + Grant=10,000 + Savings: 30,000)= $92,000 is what my family would pay.

CLS:
COA: $231,000 (taken from LST)

231,000 -(Grants=10,000 + Savings: 30,000)= 191,000

So it's really 191k for CLS vs. 92k for Boalt.

Does your family feel so much more strongly about CLS as to justify 99k? (Full disclosure: CLS 2L who will be working in CA)

[bosmer88]

COL includes rent, utilities, food, books, insurance, etc. -> are these figures being factored in for Boalt?

Everything else is included, but I forgot books. According to Boalt's website, that would be an additional $4500. But since I am mathematically zapped right now, ignore it.

Does your family feel so much more strongly about CLS as to justify 99k? (Full disclosure: CLS 2L who will be working in CA)

My family is CLS all the way. I feel guilty making them pay that additional cost, especially since I want to do PI. I told my family that up front but they told me to practice in the area I wanted. Still, they wanted me to take CLS just in case if I decided to change my mind later about my area of practice.

[camelcrema]

My family is CLS all the way. I feel guilty making them pay that additional cost, especially since I want to do PI. I told my family that up front but they told me to practice in the area I wanted. Still, they wanted me to take CLS just in case if I decided to change my mind later about my area of practice.

Well shit. Visit CLS?