Stanford vs. Berkeley Forum

[HeadingToCA]

How much more are you willing to pay per year to go to Stanford over Berkeley?

[Dr. Dre]

Berk would need to give close to or at least half of their tuition (for 3 yrs) + COL to even consider them

[JamesDean1955]

It would take a full ride at Berkeley to even make me think twice, given that my goals are biglaw/prestigious clerkships. Always nice to have a shot at academia, too.

[Itinerant]

It would take a full ride at Berkeley to even make me think twice, given that my goals are biglaw/prestigious clerkships. Always nice to have a shot at academia, too.

[ManOfTheMinute]

[Ti Malice]

If this had been my final decision (and ignoring the huge need-based grant SLS offered me), Berkeley would have had to offer a full ride to even get me to blink.

[UtilityMonster]

Whoever checked $10,000 is trolling so hard.

[Dr. Dre]

i change my answer to this

It would take a full ride at Berkeley to even make me think twice, given that my goals are biglaw/prestigious clerkships. Always nice to have a shot at academia, too.

[unc0mm0n1]

I love the confidence of this board. I picked 30k but in reality it'd be closer to 20k. To be clear I wouldn't attend either without substantial aid but if Stanford was 25K a year and Berkeley was free I'd chose UC. Maybe I'm just debt adverse but I couldn't imagine being 100K in debt, let alone 200K in debt with interest that's a ton of money. I've worked big law for a summer and I'm already looking for exit options. I'd hate to be stuck doing something I hate for 4-5 years just to pay of loans. Maybe my answer is colored by the fact that A) I had a pretty good job before I came in and could get offers in that field again if I struck out at OCI B) I could care less about the so-called prestige of a law firm and C) Did I mention I'm very debt adverse?

[twenty]

I love the confidence of this board. I picked 30k but in reality it'd be closer to 20k. To be clear I wouldn't attend either without substantial aid but if Stanford was 25K a year and Berkeley was free I'd chose UC. Maybe I'm just debt adverse but I couldn't imagine being 100K in debt, let alone 200K in debt with interest that's a ton of money. I've worked big law for a summer and I'm already looking for exit options. I'd hate to be stuck doing something I hate for 4-5 years just to pay of loans. Maybe my answer is colored by the fact that A) I had a pretty good job before I came in and could get offers in that field again if I struck out at OCI B) I could care less about the so-called prestige of a law firm and C) Did I mention I'm very debt adverse?

This mindset is criminally under-appreciated on this board. There's a bunch of 0Ls saying "HYS AT STICKER, MAYBE CCN" when what no one understands is that even if they got into, say, Yale, which means a guaranteed job, they may have to sweat it out in biglaw for 4-5 years to pay back that kind of debt. Maybe this makes sense for a homeless college grad with 50k in undergrad debt (which means that another 150k-200k is like eh, whatever).

Before being swarmed by "BUT YALE IS THE BEST OMG", consider that roughly half the students get "forced"/choose biglaw.

To answer this question, 90k at Berkeley for me would be enough. Wouldn't attend either at sticker.

[JamesDean1955]

First of all, it is rare not to get any aid whatsoever at HYS.

Secondly, LOL @ being afraid of taking Yale at sticker. And no, no, no you would not have to take biglaw in order to pay back your loans. Yale grads get the most prestigious PI jobs in the country and the best loan repayment assistance to boot.

If you do decide on biglaw, not only are your chances of lasting more than a few years greater, but your exit options are practically guaranteed, simply by virtue of having a Yale degree. I have seen this happen personally, even with the dumbest of Yale associates.

Not going to Yale because you're afraid of $250k debt is moronic and short-sighted.

And I'm pretty sure all of the above could be said for Stanford just as much as Yale.

[ManOfTheMinute]

First of all, it is rare not to get any aid whatsoever at HYS.

Secondly, LOL @ being afraid of taking Yale at sticker. And no, no, no you would not have to take biglaw in order to pay back your loans. Yale grads get the most prestigious PI jobs in the country and the best loan repayment assistance to boot.

If you do decide on biglaw, not only are your chances of lasting more than a few years greater, but your exit options are practically guaranteed, simply by virtue of having a Yale degree. I have seen this happen personally, even with the dumbest of Yale associates.

Not going to Yale because you're afraid of $250k debt is moronic and short-sighted.

And I'm pretty sure all of the above could be said for Stanford just as much as Yale.

+1... except for the fact that both YLS and SLS cannot have the best loan repayment assistant programs

[jrf12886]

First born son.

[Teflon_Don]

Funny how a lot of people that talk major shit about HYS at sticker didn't get into HYS... LOL

[Ti Malice]

I love the confidence of this board. I picked 30k but in reality it'd be closer to 20k. To be clear I wouldn't attend either without substantial aid but if Stanford was 25K a year and Berkeley was free I'd chose UC. Maybe I'm just debt adverse but I couldn't imagine being 100K in debt, let alone 200K in debt with interest that's a ton of money. I've worked big law for a summer and I'm already looking for exit options. I'd hate to be stuck doing something I hate for 4-5 years just to pay of loans. Maybe my answer is colored by the fact that A) I had a pretty good job before I came in and could get offers in that field again if I struck out at OCI B) I could care less about the so-called prestige of a law firm and C) Did I mention I'm very debt adverse?

This mindset is criminally under-appreciated on this board. There's a bunch of 0Ls saying "HYS AT STICKER, MAYBE CCN" when what no one understands is that even if they got into, say, Yale, which means a guaranteed job, they may have to sweat it out in biglaw for 4-5 years to pay back that kind of debt. Maybe this makes sense for a homeless college grad with 50k in undergrad debt (which means that another 150k-200k is like eh, whatever).

Before being swarmed by "BUT YALE IS THE BEST OMG", consider that roughly half the students get "forced"/choose biglaw.

To answer this question, 90k at Berkeley for me would be enough. Wouldn't attend either at sticker.

A whole lot of no to this post.

At YLS, not a 0L. No one here is "forced" to choose BigLaw. COAP is amazing. If I decide on graduation day that I want to work as a circus clown, I'll never have to put a dime of my own money toward debt service (unless I strike it rich as a circus clown). SLS's LRAP isn't quite that amazing, but it's still incredible. LIPP is pretty great, too.

SLS is worth a lot more money than Boalt because the odds of a bad outcome are much lower at the former than the latter.

[PRgradBYU]

First born son.

Entire family.

[unc0mm0n1]

Funny how a lot of people that talk major shit about HYS at sticker didn't get into HYS... LOL

I got into two of them and I didn't apply to Stanford. And I tell you unequivocally I wouldn't go to Yale at sticker. I wouldn't go anywhere at sticker, ever. I'm not saying Yale at sticker is a bad decision (in fact considering how awesome COAP is, it is probably a good idea) but I wouldn't do it, esp. when I probably got into a school like Penn, NYU or Berkeley with a huge scholarship.

[unc0mm0n1]

I love the confidence of this board. I picked 30k but in reality it'd be closer to 20k. To be clear I wouldn't attend either without substantial aid but if Stanford was 25K a year and Berkeley was free I'd chose UC. Maybe I'm just debt adverse but I couldn't imagine being 100K in debt, let alone 200K in debt with interest that's a ton of money. I've worked big law for a summer and I'm already looking for exit options. I'd hate to be stuck doing something I hate for 4-5 years just to pay of loans. Maybe my answer is colored by the fact that A) I had a pretty good job before I came in and could get offers in that field again if I struck out at OCI B) I could care less about the so-called prestige of a law firm and C) Did I mention I'm very debt adverse?

This mindset is criminally under-appreciated on this board. There's a bunch of 0Ls saying "HYS AT STICKER, MAYBE CCN" when what no one understands is that even if they got into, say, Yale, which means a guaranteed job, they may have to sweat it out in biglaw for 4-5 years to pay back that kind of debt. Maybe this makes sense for a homeless college grad with 50k in undergrad debt (which means that another 150k-200k is like eh, whatever).

Before being swarmed by "BUT YALE IS THE BEST OMG", consider that roughly half the students get "forced"/choose biglaw.

To answer this question, 90k at Berkeley for me would be enough. Wouldn't attend either at sticker.

A whole lot of no to this post.

At YLS, not a 0L. No one here is "forced" to choose BigLaw. COAP is amazing. If I decide on graduation day that I want to work as a circus clown, I'll never have to put a dime of my own money toward debt service (unless I strike it rich as a circus clown). SLS's LRAP isn't quite that amazing, but it's still incredible. LIPP is pretty great, too.

SLS is worth a lot more money than Boalt because the odds of a bad outcome are much lower at the former than the latter.

It depends on how much money you make as a circus clown. Let me give you a scenerio. You go to Yale at sticker, coming out with about 230k in loans. Coap works on a ten year plan thus they would pay up to 25k in years 1-5 and 42K yr 6-10.

Let's say you decide screw law I want to teach kids and become a teacher in New York. The starting salary is 50k, Your spouse is a policy analyst for NYC and makes about 100k. So combined your income is 150k after taxes (using standard deduction), SS, etc., it's about 104k. Now if I'm reading this right COAP is taken from your before tax salary which is 50K plus your spouses salary minus the first 40K. So your COAP eligible income is 110K. The rate would be 6750 plus 60% of money over 80K. Which mean you would contribute 24750 and COAP would pay 50 bucks. so instead of taking home 104k a year you're taking home 79k a year. Even with Coap you can get screwed. I know most 0L's don't look at this stuff as real money but it is. Paying that type of money for 10 years is crazy to me. Once again maybe I'm too risk adverse but I'd rather be debt free and go to a school like NYU than pay sticker at Yale.

[pedestrian]

I love the confidence of this board. I picked 30k but in reality it'd be closer to 20k. To be clear I wouldn't attend either without substantial aid but if Stanford was 25K a year and Berkeley was free I'd chose UC. Maybe I'm just debt adverse but I couldn't imagine being 100K in debt, let alone 200K in debt with interest that's a ton of money. I've worked big law for a summer and I'm already looking for exit options. I'd hate to be stuck doing something I hate for 4-5 years just to pay of loans. Maybe my answer is colored by the fact that A) I had a pretty good job before I came in and could get offers in that field again if I struck out at OCI B) I could care less about the so-called prestige of a law firm and C) Did I mention I'm very debt adverse?

This mindset is criminally under-appreciated on this board. There's a bunch of 0Ls saying "HYS AT STICKER, MAYBE CCN" when what no one understands is that even if they got into, say, Yale, which means a guaranteed job, they may have to sweat it out in biglaw for 4-5 years to pay back that kind of debt. Maybe this makes sense for a homeless college grad with 50k in undergrad debt (which means that another 150k-200k is like eh, whatever).

Before being swarmed by "BUT YALE IS THE BEST OMG", consider that roughly half the students get "forced"/choose biglaw.

To answer this question, 90k at Berkeley for me would be enough. Wouldn't attend either at sticker.

A whole lot of no to this post.

At YLS, not a 0L. No one here is "forced" to choose BigLaw. COAP is amazing. If I decide on graduation day that I want to work as a circus clown, I'll never have to put a dime of my own money toward debt service (unless I strike it rich as a circus clown). SLS's LRAP isn't quite that amazing, but it's still incredible. LIPP is pretty great, too.

SLS is worth a lot more money than Boalt because the odds of a bad outcome are much lower at the former than the latter.

It depends on how much money you make as a circus clown. Let me give you a scenerio. You go to Yale at sticker, coming out with about 230k in loans. Coap works on a ten year plan thus they would pay up to 25k in years 1-5 and 42K yr 6-10.

Let's say you decide screw law I want to teach kids and become a teacher in New York. The starting salary is 50k, Your spouse is a policy analyst for NYC and makes about 100k. So combined your income is 150k after taxes (using standard deduction), SS, etc., it's about 104k. Now if I'm reading this right COAP is taken from your before tax salary which is 50K plus your spouses salary minus the first 40K. So your COAP eligible income is 110K. The rate would be 6750 plus 60% of money over 80K. Which mean you would contribute 24750 and COAP would pay 50 bucks. so instead of taking home 104k a year you're taking home 79k a year. Even with Coap you can get screwed. I know most 0L's don't look at this stuff as real money but it is. Paying that type of money for 10 years is crazy to me. Once again maybe I'm too risk adverse but I'd rather be debt free and go to a school like NYU than pay sticker at Yale.

BUT your spouse may have never married you if you didn't have that sexy YLS degree, so then you would only be making 50k. Your "free" education at NYU cost you $29k a year, or payments of $2,400 a month. Is that a risk you want to take?

Joking aside, there is risk in every decision, even a full-ride at NYU or Berkeley. If you don't get the job that you want the opportunity cost of going to NYU over not going to law school is three years of earnings, while the opportunity cost of not going to HYS is a lifetime of higher earnings and/or satisfaction.

Going to a school that virtually guarantees the job that you want and has a back-up guarantee of loan repayment is actually the risk averse option here. Loans in this case are not a gamble, they are the premium you are willing to pay to avoid risk. Lower risk usually does carry some added cost.

A lower ranked school on a full scholarship is a gamble that you will get the same outcome at a lower cost. Your odds may be good and it may be a risk you are willing to take - but it is not the risk averse option.

[stuckinthemiddle]

An organ or two.

[unc0mm0n1]

It depends on how much money you make as a circus clown. Let me give you a scenerio. You go to Yale at sticker, coming out with about 230k in loans. Coap works on a ten year plan thus they would pay up to 25k in years 1-5 and 42K yr 6-10.

Let's say you decide screw law I want to teach kids and become a teacher in New York. The starting salary is 50k, Your spouse is a policy analyst for NYC and makes about 100k. So combined your income is 150k after taxes (using standard deduction), SS, etc., it's about 104k. Now if I'm reading this right COAP is taken from your before tax salary which is 50K plus your spouses salary minus the first 40K. So your COAP eligible income is 110K. The rate would be 6750 plus 60% of money over 80K. Which mean you would contribute 24750 and COAP would pay 50 bucks. so instead of taking home 104k a year you're taking home 79k a year. Even with Coap you can get screwed. I know most 0L's don't look at this stuff as real money but it is. Paying that type of money for 10 years is crazy to me. Once again maybe I'm too risk adverse but I'd rather be debt free and go to a school like NYU than pay sticker at Yale.

BUT your spouse may have never married you if you didn't have that sexy YLS degree, so then you would only be making 50k. Your "free" education at NYU cost you $29k a year, or payments of $2,400 a month. Is that a risk you want to take?

Joking aside, there is risk in every decision, even a full-ride at NYU or Berkeley. If you don't get the job that you want the opportunity cost of going to NYU over not going to law school is three years of earnings, while the opportunity cost of not going to HYS is a lifetime of higher earnings and/or satisfaction.

Going to a school that virtually guarantees the job that you want and has a back-up guarantee of loan repayment is actually the risk averse option here. Loans in this case are not a gamble, they are the premium you are willing to pay to avoid risk. Lower risk usually does carry some added cost.

A lower ranked school on a full scholarship is a gamble that you will get the same outcome at a lower cost. Your odds may be good and it may be a risk you are willing to take - but it is not the risk averse option.

Three years? At most I'd lose 1 year of salary. I said I'm risk adverse if I did terrible my first year I'd probably drop and do something more productive with my time. Also 29K a year? I could easily get by on half of that. I summered in NYC and I spent $1800 for rent for the entire summer I lived right off the 5 and could get to NYU in about 30 minutes. NYC isn't as expensive as people make it out to be (If you're living as a humble law student) esp. if you are ok living near brown people.

[pedestrian]

It depends on how much money you make as a circus clown. Let me give you a scenerio. You go to Yale at sticker, coming out with about 230k in loans. Coap works on a ten year plan thus they would pay up to 25k in years 1-5 and 42K yr 6-10.

Let's say you decide screw law I want to teach kids and become a teacher in New York. The starting salary is 50k, Your spouse is a policy analyst for NYC and makes about 100k. So combined your income is 150k after taxes (using standard deduction), SS, etc., it's about 104k. Now if I'm reading this right COAP is taken from your before tax salary which is 50K plus your spouses salary minus the first 40K. So your COAP eligible income is 110K. The rate would be 6750 plus 60% of money over 80K. Which mean you would contribute 24750 and COAP would pay 50 bucks. so instead of taking home 104k a year you're taking home 79k a year. Even with Coap you can get screwed. I know most 0L's don't look at this stuff as real money but it is. Paying that type of money for 10 years is crazy to me. Once again maybe I'm too risk adverse but I'd rather be debt free and go to a school like NYU than pay sticker at Yale.

BUT your spouse may have never married you if you didn't have that sexy YLS degree, so then you would only be making 50k. Your "free" education at NYU cost you $29k a year, or payments of $2,400 a month. Is that a risk you want to take?

Joking aside, there is risk in every decision, even a full-ride at NYU or Berkeley. If you don't get the job that you want the opportunity cost of going to NYU over not going to law school is three years of earnings, while the opportunity cost of not going to HYS is a lifetime of higher earnings and/or satisfaction.

Going to a school that virtually guarantees the job that you want and has a back-up guarantee of loan repayment is actually the risk averse option here. Loans in this case are not a gamble, they are the premium you are willing to pay to avoid risk. Lower risk usually does carry some added cost.

A lower ranked school on a full scholarship is a gamble that you will get the same outcome at a lower cost. Your odds may be good and it may be a risk you are willing to take - but it is not the risk averse option.

Three years? At most I'd lose 1 year of salary. I said I'm risk adverse if I did terrible my first year I'd probably drop and do something more productive with my time. Also 29K a year? I could easily get by on half of that. I summered in NYC and I spent $1800 for rent for the entire summer I lived right off the 5 and could get to NYU in about 30 minutes. NYC isn't as expensive as people make it out to be (If you're living as a humble law student) esp. if you are ok living near brown people.

LOL ok, then I suppose you could get by on 79k a year.

[thand42292]

It depends on how much money you make as a circus clown. Let me give you a scenerio. You go to Yale at sticker, coming out with about 230k in loans. Coap works on a ten year plan thus they would pay up to 25k in years 1-5 and 42K yr 6-10.

Let's say you decide screw law I want to teach kids and become a teacher in New York. The starting salary is 50k, Your spouse is a policy analyst for NYC and makes about 100k. So combined your income is 150k after taxes (using standard deduction), SS, etc., it's about 104k. Now if I'm reading this right COAP is taken from your before tax salary which is 50K plus your spouses salary minus the first 40K. So your COAP eligible income is 110K. The rate would be 6750 plus 60% of money over 80K. Which mean you would contribute 24750 and COAP would pay 50 bucks. so instead of taking home 104k a year you're taking home 79k a year. Even with Coap you can get screwed. I know most 0L's don't look at this stuff as real money but it is. Paying that type of money for 10 years is crazy to me. Once again maybe I'm too risk adverse but I'd rather be debt free and go to a school like NYU than pay sticker at Yale.

What are you talking about? I know tons of people who work white collar jobs for NYC. Not one started off making 100k. That's a mid-career salary after years of raises in local government usually. What job is this? If the persons around entry level like you they should be making significantly less. If the person's not around entry level and is your goddamn spouse they should be able to help you with your loans anyway. Like you say NYs not that expensive if your willing to live out. If your taking home 79k a year as a couple in your 20s or 30s, as most people on this board are, and are working teachers hours you should have no problem living on the cheap in the outer boroughs. This is a shitty anecdote. Which just shows its goddamn hard to thing of a scenario where Yale's the wrong answer.

Disclaimer: Didn't even apply. Just a 0l with some NYC experience and a deep desire to call bullshit.

[Ling520]

It depends on how much money you make as a circus clown. Let me give you a scenerio. You go to Yale at sticker, coming out with about 230k in loans. Coap works on a ten year plan thus they would pay up to 25k in years 1-5 and 42K yr 6-10.

Let's say you decide screw law I want to teach kids and become a teacher in New York. The starting salary is 50k, Your spouse is a policy analyst for NYC and makes about 100k. So combined your income is 150k after taxes (using standard deduction), SS, etc., it's about 104k. Now if I'm reading this right COAP is taken from your before tax salary which is 50K plus your spouses salary minus the first 40K. So your COAP eligible income is 110K. The rate would be 6750 plus 60% of money over 80K. Which mean you would contribute 24750 and COAP would pay 50 bucks. so instead of taking home 104k a year you're taking home 79k a year. Even with Coap you can get screwed. I know most 0L's don't look at this stuff as real money but it is. Paying that type of money for 10 years is crazy to me. Once again maybe I'm too risk adverse but I'd rather be debt free and go to a school like NYU than pay sticker at Yale.

What are you talking about? I know tons of people who work white collar jobs for NYC. Not one started off making 100k. That's a mid-career salary after years of raises in local government usually. What job is this? If the persons around entry level like you they should be making significantly less. If the person's not around entry level and is your goddamn spouse they should be able to help you with your loans anyway. Like you say NYs not that expensive if your willing to live out. If your taking home 79k a year as a couple in your 20s or 30s, as most people on this board are, and are working teachers hours you should have no problem living on the cheap in the outer boroughs. This is a shitty anecdote. Which just shows its goddamn hard to thing of a scenario where Yale's the wrong answer.

Disclaimer: Didn't even apply. Just a 0l with some NYC experience and a deep desire to call bullshit.

Looks like your having reading comprehension difficulty; he never claimed that 100K was starting salary in NYC. Also, keep in mind that the people you know are not representative of the people unc0mm0n1 knows or anyone else knows, for that matter—e.g., for many of the people I know, mostly former military working in policy or the defense sector, six figure salaries are the norm at early/mid-career.

[pedestrian]

It depends on how much money you make as a circus clown. Let me give you a scenerio. You go to Yale at sticker, coming out with about 230k in loans. Coap works on a ten year plan thus they would pay up to 25k in years 1-5 and 42K yr 6-10.

Let's say you decide screw law I want to teach kids and become a teacher in New York. The starting salary is 50k, Your spouse is a policy analyst for NYC and makes about 100k. So combined your income is 150k after taxes (using standard deduction), SS, etc., it's about 104k. Now if I'm reading this right COAP is taken from your before tax salary which is 50K plus your spouses salary minus the first 40K. So your COAP eligible income is 110K. The rate would be 6750 plus 60% of money over 80K. Which mean you would contribute 24750 and COAP would pay 50 bucks. so instead of taking home 104k a year you're taking home 79k a year. Even with Coap you can get screwed. I know most 0L's don't look at this stuff as real money but it is. Paying that type of money for 10 years is crazy to me. Once again maybe I'm too risk adverse but I'd rather be debt free and go to a school like NYU than pay sticker at Yale.

What are you talking about? I know tons of people who work white collar jobs for NYC. Not one started off making 100k. That's a mid-career salary after years of raises in local government usually. What job is this? If the persons around entry level like you they should be making significantly less. If the person's not around entry level and is your goddamn spouse they should be able to help you with your loans anyway. Like you say NYs not that expensive if your willing to live out. If your taking home 79k a year as a couple in your 20s or 30s, as most people on this board are, and are working teachers hours you should have no problem living on the cheap in the outer boroughs. This is a shitty anecdote. Which just shows its goddamn hard to thing of a scenario where Yale's the wrong answer.

Disclaimer: Didn't even apply. Just a 0l with some NYC experience and a deep desire to call bullshit.

Looks like your having reading comprehension difficulty; he never claimed that 100K was starting salary in NYC. Also, keep in mind that the people you know are not representative of the people unc0mm0n1 knows or anyone else knows, for that matter—e.g., for many of the people I know, mostly former military working in policy or the defense sector, six figure salaries are the norm at early/mid-career.

The "risk" in the scenario is that you will decide, immediately after graduating, that you don't want a legal degree after all AND you also have a spouse who can just barely afford to pay for it, so you are stuck paying for a useless degree.

I think that is an extreme and unlikely scenario, but going to ANY law school in that scenario is a bad decision, even if you are going for free. The way to avoid that outcome is not to get a full ride at a lower ranked school, it is to make sure that you want a legal career before you go to law school.

The real risk of taking out loans for law school is usually that you will be unable, through no fault of your own, to get the legal work that you want, but will still be forced to pay back the debt. That risk diminishes to essentially zero at the very top schools with generous LRAPs.