full ride@Minnesota Forum

[jessierocks]

I just got a full ride @Minnesota. Apart from that, I have an interview with BU and am still waiting for decisions from 13 schools.
The thing is, I looked at the employment data of Minnesota which is not very good.
My career goal is to become a business lawyer. Is Minnesota really not suitable for me?

[K Rock]

Wut.

[rickgrimes69]

I seriously considered (and turned down) a full ride at MN because I wanted biglaw, and their large firm placement is awful. However, if you are content with staying in Minnesota and don't mind working at a smaller firm, you could do worse than UMN with a full ride.

Do you have ties to the area? What type of business law do you want to practice?

[jessierocks]

I seriously considered (and turned down) a full ride at MN because I wanted biglaw, and their large firm placement is awful. However, if you are content with staying in Minnesota and don't mind working at a smaller firm, you could do worse than UMN with a full ride.

Do you have ties to the area? What type of business law do you want to practice?

Well, I'm an international student. I don't know whether biglaw firms are very different from smaller firms. As far as I am concerned, if the pay is satisfactory, it is okay. Still I guess I might be more suitable for international business issues.

[stuckinthemiddle]

If you're an international student with no ties to Minnesota, that school may not be a good bet. I've heard the market's hard to crack for outsiders.

How will you be paying the cost of living?

[jessierocks]

Ummm, if you're an international student with no ties to Minnesota, then you probably shouldn't go to that school no matter what.

May I ask why? It is because Minnesota is very cold?

[stuckinthemiddle]

Sorry. I rephrased the previous post to explain myself.

Why Minnesota (if you don't mind me asking)? Do you have T14 acceptances? I just hear it's hard for international students to get an employer outside of biglaw to sponsor a working visa. If you can only get small offices or PI gigs, I have no idea if they'll be as able/willing to sponsor you, and those are what you are likely gonna get coming out of Minnesota in this economy.

[jessierocks]

Sorry. I rephrased the previous post to explain myself.

Why Minnesota (if you don't mind me asking)? Do you have T14 acceptances? I just hear it's hard for international students to get an employer outside of biglaw to sponsor a working visa. If you can only get small offices or PI gigs, I have no idea if they'll be as able/willing to sponsor you, and those are what you are likely gonna get coming out of Minnesota in this economy.

Hmm, that's right. To be honest, Minnesota is the only offer I have got. 13 schools that I have applied for have not given me any feedback. I applied for 8 T14s, of which 3 turned me down. Is it possible that I will get a higher ranking in Minnesota so that the school itself doesn't matter that much?

[stuckinthemiddle]

It's difficult to bank on ranking high in your 1L law class. The consensus seems to be that grades can be somewhat unpredictable, and you shouldn't go to a law school that you aren't comfortable graduating from. If you can score within the top 10% of your class, you might have a reasonable shot at big law. Still, that's a very lofty goal.

See: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0126161309. Minessota only gets 10 percent of its graduates in big law. The odds don't look good...

Still, if you can get a full ride to Minnesota, I'm pretty sure you should snag at least one T14. What are your stats? However, the problem will shift from getting biglaw to sponsor a working visa, to actually funding your education. You probably won't get a full ride, and will need to find ways to pay for law school (since federal loans won't be an option for you). That makes the investment riskier, but you have more chance of actually finding a visa sponsoring employer. Do you have funds saved up to mitigate the cost?

Really difficult situation. Not sure how to advise you except by giving you the facts/TLS wisdom. It's pretty hard for international students to get a good deal in this economy.

[jessierocks]

It's difficult to bank on ranking high in your 1L law class. The consensus seems to be that grades can be somewhat unpredictable, and you shouldn't go to a law school that you aren't comfortable graduating from. If you can score within the top 10% of your class, you might have a reasonable shot at big law. Still, that's a very lofty goal.

See: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 0126161309. Minessota only gets 10 percent of its graduates in big law. The odds don't look good...

Still, if you can get a full ride to Minnesota, I'm pretty sure you should snag at least one T14. What are your stats? However, the problem will shift from getting biglaw to sponsor a working visa, to actually funding your education. You probably won't get a full ride, and will need to find ways to pay for law school (since federal loans won't be an option for you). That makes the investment riskier, but you have more chance of actually finding a visa sponsoring employer. Do you have funds saved up to mitigate the cost?

Really difficult situation. Not sure how to advise you except by giving you the facts/TLS wisdom. It's pretty hard for international students to get a good deal in this economy.

Right. The living cost isn't very high. And I can accept that. I have a LSAT score of 167 and a gpa of above average. Really looking forward to another offer or at least admission now.

[stuckinthemiddle]

Which T14's have you applied to? I hope you threw an application at cornell because your LSAT sits nicely on their median. At Cornell, your chances at biglaw will go from 10% to about 50%.

[jessierocks]

Which T14's have you applied to? I hope you threw an application at cornell because your LSAT sits nicely on their median.

Berkeley, Virginia and Georgetown turned me down.
I'm still waiting for feedbacks from Upenn, Duke, Umich, Northwestern and Cornell.

I guess my essays are not bad as I got full ride @Minnesota. Really hope I can get at least one T14.

[rickgrimes69]

Ummm, if you're an international student with no ties to Minnesota, then you probably shouldn't go to that school no matter what.

May I ask why? It is because Minnesota is very cold?

It's because the MN market isn't that big, and very insular. I have strong ties to that area, and employers grilled me mercilessly about them and my long-term plans. If you don't have stellar grades, it might be tough to convince employers to take a chance on a flight risk like yourself. And you can't really can't count on getting stellar grades (1L is super unpredictable).

And yes, it is pretty cold in the winter.

[Guillaume9]

OP: as an international student who has interviewed with 20+ PIs, I can confirm that almost no PI will sponsor you a work permit. If you want to find a job in US, biglaw is probably your best bet, because they are willing to sponsor work permits.
As for your chance of getting biglaw from Minnesota, I honestly don't know. But I think what other posters said are reasonable.

[jeffyl00b]

here is what is alluded to in this thread, but not outright mentioned for some reason that none of us can figure out. People in Minnesota being "cold" and "insular" culturally. In that, the people don't deal with outsiders or make new friends unless they've known you since birth.
However that's what the average person deals with, I can't tell you if actually graduating from a local school changes this or not. Maybe it still doesn't matter for them.

[cahwc12]

I just got a full ride @Minnesota. Apart from that, I have an interview with BU and am still waiting for decisions from 13 schools.
The thing is, I looked at the employment data of Minnesota which is not very good.
My career goal is to become a business lawyer. Is Minnesota really not suitable for me?

[PRgradBYU]

It's funny to me how people are so bent on "cracking the T14," as if going to UCLA or UT would leave you significantly more disadvantaged than attending Cornell or GULC. OP, you should be more concerned with employment data than with "breaking the T14" (although obviously the higher end of the T14 tends to correlate positively with better employment statistics). Do you want to end up in Minnesota? Are you willing to take on a 58.6% chance of getting a full-time job as a lawyer? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, by all means go to Minnesota.

Also:

I just got a full ride @Minnesota. Apart from that, I have an interview with BU and am still waiting for decisions from 13 schools.
The thing is, I looked at the employment data of Minnesota which is not very good.
My career goal is to become a business lawyer. Is Minnesota really not suitable for me?

[stuckinthemiddle]

To be fair, doesn't attending any of the T-13 give you a significant advantage over any non-T13 school as far as the NLJ/Clerkship stats go? Genuine question as I don't see how 1/2 at a T13 isn't better than 1/3 or 1/4 in UT/UCLA/Vandy with less mobility.

For an international student, the best places to go are those with the highest rates of biglaw placement. No surprise that such schools also happen to be in the T13/14.

Cracking T13/14 = better employment prospects for international students with no ties anywhere.

[jessierocks]

It's funny to me how people are so bent on "cracking the T14," as if going to UCLA or UT would leave you significantly more disadvantaged than attending Cornell or GULC. OP, you should be more concerned with employment data than with "breaking the T14" (although obviously the higher end of the T14 tends to correlate positively with better employment statistics). Do you want to end up in Minnesota? Are you willing to take on a 58.6% chance of getting a full-time job as a lawyer? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, by all means go to Minnesota.

Also:

I just got a full ride @Minnesota. Apart from that, I have an interview with BU and am still waiting for decisions from 13 schools.
The thing is, I looked at the employment data of Minnesota which is not very good.
My career goal is to become a business lawyer. Is Minnesota really not suitable for me?

I applied for UCLA and UT too. Still waiting for their feedback.

[jessierocks]

To be fair, doesn't attending any of the T-13 give you a significant advantage over any non-T13 school as far as the NLJ/Clerkship stats go? Genuine question as I don't see how 1/2 at a T13 isn't better than 1/3 or 1/4 in UT/UCLA/Vandy with less mobility.

For an international student, the best places to go are those with the highest rates of biglaw placement. No surprise that such schools also happen to be in the T13/14.

Cracking T13/14 = better employment prospects for international students with no ties anywhere.

Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

[jessierocks]

OP: as an international student who has interviewed with 20+ PIs, I can confirm that almost no PI will sponsor you a work permit. If you want to find a job in US, biglaw is probably your best bet, because they are willing to sponsor work permits.
As for your chance of getting biglaw from Minnesota, I honestly don't know. But I think what other posters said are reasonable.

Hmm, so what are you gonna do after graduation?

[jessierocks]

here is what is alluded to in this thread, but not outright mentioned for some reason that none of us can figure out. People in Minnesota being "cold" and "insular" culturally. In that, the people don't deal with outsiders or make new friends unless they've known you since birth.
However that's what the average person deals with, I can't tell you if actually graduating from a local school changes this or not. Maybe it still doesn't matter for them.

It's quite disappointing if they are so "cold".

[stuckinthemiddle]

OP, the general consensus is that it would not be wise for you to attend Minnesota given your goals/lack of ties. If you don't get a better offer, consider waiting another year and retaking the LSAT (eurgh I hate giving that advice to a 167 but it's just really more difficult for international students). I don't think you'd be very happy with your opportunities post-graduation out of UMinn in three years, and you may be forced to return to your home country if you can't find a sponsoring job. That would be a wasted three years, imo.

[A. Nony Mouse]

here is what is alluded to in this thread, but not outright mentioned for some reason that none of us can figure out. People in Minnesota being "cold" and "insular" culturally. In that, the people don't deal with outsiders or make new friends unless they've known you since birth.
However that's what the average person deals with, I can't tell you if actually graduating from a local school changes this or not. Maybe it still doesn't matter for them.

It's quite disappointing if they are so "cold".

I moved to Minnesota from the east coast and lived there for a number of years, and didn't find this to be the case at all.

[canarykb]

here is what is alluded to in this thread, but not outright mentioned for some reason that none of us can figure out. People in Minnesota being "cold" and "insular" culturally. In that, the people don't deal with outsiders or make new friends unless they've known you since birth.
However that's what the average person deals with, I can't tell you if actually graduating from a local school changes this or not. Maybe it still doesn't matter for them.

It's quite disappointing if they are so "cold".

I moved to Minnesota from the east coast and lived there for a number of years, and didn't find this to be the case at all.

Yeah I don't know what you're talking about here. Haven't you ever heard of "Minnesota nice?" The stereotype, and I think often the reality is that Minnesotans are warm and welcoming to a fault (in that they can be passive aggressive when upset). Additionally, although there are a lot of small towns where people may be more insular, the Twin Cities are very lively and diverse.