USNWR Trolling with Yale #1. Texas Tech is place to be Forum

[drmguy]

http://abovethelaw.com/2013/02/pure-rid ... -rankings/

[sabanist]

Come on, everyone knows that the only place ‘Bama should be ranked ahead of Harvard is on a football field!

[2014]

Apparently UChi is in the 50s, based pretty much solely on our Ratemyprofessors grade being an F and our affordability being a D+ (Lowest COA in the T14) l0l

[cahwc12]

Employment Outcomes: 50%
Employment Rate: 22.5%
Super Lawyers: 12.5%
Partners in NLJ 200: 10%
Bar Passage: 5%

Peer Assessment: 35%
RateMyProfessors.com: 20%
Princeton Review: 15%

Cost of Attendance: 10%
Debt: 10%

Other: 5%
Diversity: 5%

Employment Outcomes: 20%
Employment rate at graduation: 4%
Employment rate at nine months after graduation: 14%
Bar passage rate: 2%

Peer Assessment: 25%
Peer assessment score: 25%

Cost of Attendance: 1.5%
Financial aid: 1.5%

Other: 53.5%
Assessment score by lawyers/judges: 15%
Median LSAT scores : 12.5%
Median undergrad GPA: 10%
Acceptance rate: 2.5%
Average instruction, library, and supporting services: 9.75%
Student/faculty ratio: 3%
Library resources: 0.75%

Which one looks more ridiculous to you? The one that rates employment outcomes at 50% or the one that factors in selectivity, admissions scores, boomer opinions and library services at 50%?

edit: for comparison, here are the Cooley rankings in like formatting:

Employment Outcomes: 7.5%
Percentage of Graduates Employed: 2.5%
Number of States in which Graduates are Employed: 2.5%
First-Time Bar Passage Percentage: 2.5%

Peer Assessment: 2.5%
Program Achievement Rating Rank: 2.5%

Cost of Attendance: 15%
Full-Time Resident Tuition: 2.5%
Full-Time Non-Resident Tuition: 2.5%
Percentage of Students Receiving Grants/Scholarships: 2.5%
Median Amount of Grants/Scholarships: 2.5%
Full-Time Resident Affordability Rankings: 2.5%
Full-Time Non-Resident Affordability Rankings: 2.5%

Library Quality: 25%
Library Materials Expenditure: 2.5%
Total Volumes in Library: 2.5%
Total Titles in Library: 2.5%
Total Serial Subscriptions: 2.5%
Number of Professional Librarians: 2.5%
Library Hours per Week with Professional Staff: 2.5%
Total Library Hours per Week: 2.5%
Library Seating Capacity: 2.5%
Number of Networked Computers Available for Use by Students: 2.5%
Library Total Square Footage: 2.5%

Other: 50%
Total JD Enrollment: 2.5%
Total Minority Enrollment: 2.5%
Percentage of Minority Students: 2.5%
JD First-Year Matriculant Rankings: 2.5%
JD First-Year Minority Enrollment Rankings: 2.5%
JD First-Year Minority Percentage Rankings: 2.5%
JD Foreign National Students: 2.5%
JD Foreign National Percentage Rankings: 2.5%
Median Percentile UGPA: 2.5%
Median Percentile LSAT: 2.5%
Total Applications: 2.5%
Number of Full-Time Faculty: 2.5%
Number of Part-Time Faculty: 2.5%
Total Teaching Faculty: 2.5%
Number of Minority Faculty: 2.5%
Student-Faculty Ratio: 2.5%
Typical First-Year Section Size: 2.5%
Number of Course Titles Beyond the First Year: 2.5%
Non-Library Total Square Footage: 2.5%
Total Law School Square Footage: 2.5%

[John_rizzy_rawls]

Employment Outcomes: 50%
Employment Rate: 22.5%
Super Lawyers: 12.5%
Partners in NLJ 200: 10%
Bar Passage: 5%

Peer Assessment: 35%
RateMyProfessors.com: 20%
Princeton Review: 15%

Cost of Attendance: 10%
Debt: 10%

Other: 5%
Diversity: 5%

Employment Outcomes: 20%
Employment rate at graduation: 4%
Employment rate at nine months after graduation: 14%
Bar passage rate: 2%

Peer Assessment: 25%
Peer assessment score: 25%

Cost of Attendance: 1.5%
Financial aid: 1.5%

Other: 53.5%
Assessment score by lawyers/judges: 15%
Median LSAT scores : 12.5%
Median undergrad GPA: 10%
Acceptance rate: 2.5%
Average instruction, library, and supporting services: 9.75%
Student/faculty ratio: 3%
Library resources: 0.75%

Which one looks more ridiculous to you? The one that rates employment outcomes at 50% or the one that factors in selectivity, admissions scores, boomer opinions and library services at 50%?

Glad someone said it. These aren't the idiotic Cooley rankings, they're a system using metrics very relevant ITE.

Although they would do well to take into account self-selecting employment data from Yale and I'd like to see what their employment breakdown is (clerkships, academia, non-JD required employment, etc).

[drmguy]

Transfer the 20% from ratemyprofessors to employment outcome, and I would like them.

[Crowing]

At least 47.5% of these rankings are still utter trash (ratemyprofessor, princeton review, super lawyers). Maybe they're better than the Cooley rankings, but that's like saying I'd rather eat a bloody turd than eat a bloody turd wrapped in a hippo placenta.

[spicyyoda17]

Transfer the 20% from ratemyprofessors to employment outcome, and I would like them.

Any sort of rankings that gives such significant weight to ratemyprofessors loses legitimacy with me. It's not because students don't use it. It's not because it's not useful.

It's because ratemyprofessors is a reflection of different expectations, which is in turn a reflection of different academic goals. Students at Stanford are grading professors at Stanford. Students at Alabama are grading professors at Alabama. The expectations of students at Stanford (in terms of quality, teaching methods, etc.) are going to be different, so comparing the ratings of Stanford's professors to those at Alabama is faulty.

[cahwc12]

If I were to make my own rankings system it might be something like:

Employment Outcomes: 50%
Employed at nine months: 15%
Employed in a full-time, long-term job requiring bar passage: 25%
Employed in NLJ250, Federal Clerkship, or some other 'esteemed' job: 10%


Cost of Attendance: 40%
Quality of IBR/LRAP: 15%
Median starting salary of graduates employed: 10%
Likelihood to repay law school debt in X (10?) years: 15%

Peer Assessment: 10%
Student assessment of educational quality: 5%
Student satisfaction: 5%


Come to think of it... why don't we make our own ranking system? The only things I think I couldn't fill out of the above are:
'esteemed job'
quality of IBR/LRAP: how would we determine this empirically?
median starting salary of employed graduates: not all schools report salary data...

[dixiecupdrinking]

Transfer the 20% from ratemyprofessors to employment outcome, and I would like them.

Any sort of rankings that gives such significant weight to ratemyprofessors loses legitimacy with me. It's not because students don't use it. It's not because it's not useful.

It's because ratemyprofessors is a reflection of different expectations, which is in turn a reflection of different academic goals. Students at Stanford are grading professors at Stanford. Students at Alabama are grading professors at Alabama. The expectations of students at Stanford (in terms of quality, teaching methods, etc.) are going to be different, so comparing the ratings of Stanford's professors to those at Alabama is faulty.

Maybe that's right but it's also ridiculous because students don't use it and because it's not useful.

I think maybe someone I knew in college used that website once. I would be shocked if more than one or two people at my law school have rated their professors on it in the past five years.

It's like some boomer literally just went on Google and typed "website where students rate professors" and then published some rankings based on the first thing that came up.

Edit: So I just looked at it and you can also rate your professors based on whether they're hot? WTF is this bullshit website.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, Rate My Professors is bullshit. The biggest problem is that it's entirely voluntary, so generally the only people who use it are those who really really hated their profs and those who really really loved their profs (and probably more of the former than the latter). It's statistically useless. If you want to collect school-administered student evals and use those, that would be one thing (but even those probably have a really terrible return rate).

[star fox]

Yeah, Rate My Professors is bullshit. The biggest problem is that it's entirely voluntary, so generally the only people who use it are those who really really hated their profs and those who really really loved their profs (and probably more of the former than the latter). It's statistically useless. If you want to collect school-administered student evals and use those, that would be one thing (but even those probably have a really terrible return rate).

Rate My Professors = super useful for finding out which professors give out easy A's in undergrad. Anyone who want to be "pre-law" and is in a major with a lot of course flexibility (useless liberal arts degrees FT...W?) should use it.

[nickb285]

.

[Crowing]

Yeah, Rate My Professors is bullshit. The biggest problem is that it's entirely voluntary, so generally the only people who use it are those who really really hated their profs and those who really really loved their profs (and probably more of the former than the latter). It's statistically useless. If you want to collect school-administered student evals and use those, that would be one thing (but even those probably have a really terrible return rate).

Rate My Professors = super useful for finding out which professors give out easy A's in undergrad. Anyone who want to be "pre-law" and is in a major with a lot of course flexibility (useless liberal arts degrees FT...W?) should use it.

I admittedly found the site quite useful for UG.

[pastapplicant]

LOL texas tech has this up on their school website.

[drmguy]

I admittedly found the site quite useful for UG.

I don't that it is something to be ashamed of. Ratemyprofessors saved me from a professor that always failed like 80 or 90 percent of his students.

[shifty_eyed]

Congratulations Dean Perez!

[hookem7]

Idk if other schools have done this but UT partnered with myEdu.com to post the evaluations that everyone had to fill out at the end of the semester. It was really useful for picking elective type classes because it had more in-depth reviews as opposed to "this prof is awesome/terrible" plus grade distributions. It saved me from taking a science credit that sounded interesting but was apparently really boring and work intensive.

[rad lulz]

LOL texas tech has this up on their school website.

LOLOLOL

[pastapplicant]

lol look at that scribble on the chalkboard. so many times law professors scribble incoherent stuff on the board.

[cahwc12]

As much as you guys scoff at the utility of ratemyprofessors.com ratings (which I admit is very low) I just don't think you can make a reasonable case that it is less useful than factoring in something like library services and admissions criteria.

I think USNWR rankings contain about 25% useful information and 75% fluff.

The national jurist contains about 60-70% useful information and 30-40% fluff.

USNWR peer assessment isn't actually peer assessment at all, because they don't poll the students (peers). Instead, they poll faculty and administration. Do you really think their opinions will be valid about other schools to which they have no association?

I agree ratemyprofessors.com is not a reliable metric for performance, but something that asks students directly about their satisfaction with professors, classes and the overall education should be factored in. I don't care what my professors think about the school relative to others, or even what my peers think about their school relative to others. I do care about what those peers think about the school relative to what they expected.

Someone mentioned above that it isn't fair that Alabama students are judging against Alabama standards, while Stanford students are judging against Stanford standards, but I think that's exactly fair. If a school is exceeding or falling below it's expected academic rigor, it should be praised or lowered accordingly until those line up.

[dingbat]

USNWR peer assessment isn't actually peer assessment at all, because they don't poll the students (peers). Instead, they poll faculty and administration. Do you really think their opinions will be valid about other schools to which they have no association?

[cahwc12]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+peer

[dingbat]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+peer

1 : one that is of equal standing with another : equal ; especially : one belonging to the same societal group especially based on age, grade, or status

how are a school's students it's peers?
A school's peers are other schools.

[A. Nony Mouse]

While I think student evaluations can be valuable (when administered properly, unlike RMP), student evals aren't peer evals because a student isn't a law school's peer. Law schools are each others' peers.
(um, what dingbat said.)
And actually, faculty and admin will have a lot more knowledge of other law schools' practices than students do. Now, you may not want to weight those perspectives very heavily because you might argue those perspectives don't represent student interests, but that's different from saying they won't know anything about other schools.