Legal Academia Forum
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Legal Academia
If I were interested in legal academia, are there schools other than HYS which would allow me to pursue that career?
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Re: Legal Academia
This:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=199388
And about 100 others if you use the "search" function.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=199388
And about 100 others if you use the "search" function.
- jselson
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Re: Legal Academia
Add Chicago. Other schools are crapshoots.superhopefulwoo wrote:If I were interested in legal academia, are there schools other than HYS which would allow me to pursue that career?
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Re: Legal Academia
I'd bet 50 bucks that Chicago's placement in academia is mostly just more people trying because of the kind of egregious nerds that go there.jselson wrote:Add Chicago. Other schools are crapshoots.superhopefulwoo wrote:If I were interested in legal academia, are there schools other than HYS which would allow me to pursue that career?
- The Brainalist
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Re: Legal Academia
I'd also bet that Yale wouldn't be placing so many in academia if so many of them did not try for academia.Desert Fox wrote:I'd bet 50 bucks that Chicago's placement in academia is mostly just more people trying because of the kind of egregious nerds that go there.jselson wrote:Add Chicago. Other schools are crapshoots.superhopefulwoo wrote:If I were interested in legal academia, are there schools other than HYS which would allow me to pursue that career?
You know, a good argument could be made that much of the benefit of ending up at YSH comes in the form of confidence or perceived opportunities.
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- jselson
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Re: Legal Academia
Even if this is true, they still place and schools look to them more than Columbia or NYU, and at least the OP would be with a group of people who have similar interests rather than being one of a few academia-track folks in sea of biglaw gunners. But idk, I'm an 0L, grain of salt, etc.Desert Fox wrote:I'd bet 50 bucks that Chicago's placement in academia is mostly just more people trying because of the kind of egregious nerds that go there.jselson wrote:Add Chicago. Other schools are crapshoots.superhopefulwoo wrote:If I were interested in legal academia, are there schools other than HYS which would allow me to pursue that career?
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Re: Legal Academia
But you don't know that schools look to them more.jselson wrote:Even if this is true, they still place and schools look to them more than Columbia or NYU, and at least the OP would be with a group of people who have similar interests rather than being one of a few academia-track folks in sea of biglaw gunners. But idk, I'm an 0L, grain of salt, etc.Desert Fox wrote:I'd bet 50 bucks that Chicago's placement in academia is mostly just more people trying because of the kind of egregious nerds that go there.jselson wrote:Add Chicago. Other schools are crapshoots.superhopefulwoo wrote:If I were interested in legal academia, are there schools other than HYS which would allow me to pursue that career?
- Redamon1
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Re: Legal Academia
It's my feeling as well that most people interested in academia pick HYS if they got in, or drop the idea if they didn't. Conversely, I'd be interested to know to what extent those at other top schools that DO TRY to get academia succeed. In other words, I wish I had more info about the success rate of the various schools.The Brainalist wrote:I'd also bet that Yale wouldn't be placing so many in academia if so many of them did not try for academia.Desert Fox wrote:I'd bet 50 bucks that Chicago's placement in academia is mostly just more people trying because of the kind of egregious nerds that go there.jselson wrote:Add Chicago. Other schools are crapshoots.superhopefulwoo wrote:If I were interested in legal academia, are there schools other than HYS which would allow me to pursue that career?
You know, a good argument could be made that much of the benefit of ending up at YSH comes in the form of confidence or perceived opportunities.
- The Brainalist
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Re: Legal Academia
This is just for your benefit, but I'm talking about the benefits of YHS which people perceive to be unique to those three schools, specifically access to academia here, but it would probably include clerking or politics in people's minds as well. That would be compared to the schools that are otherwise the same but for differences in placement in those areas, such as Columbia or Chicago.ajax adonis wrote:Eh, you can have all the confidence in the world, but if you're outside T14, it's extremely hard.The Brainalist wrote:
I'd also bet that Yale wouldn't be placing so many in academia if so many of them did not try for academia.
You know, a good argument could be made that much of the benefit of ending up at YSH comes in the form of confidence or perceived opportunities.
I don't think it was Leiter's stuff, though he used to do a lot, but I thought I saw somewhere a comparison of those who were trying to land something at whatever meat market they have every year for legal hiring vs. those who landed it. If I remember right, surprisingly few non-HYS grads were even trying for academia.
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Re: Legal Academia
Looking at the faculty at most law schools, their degrees are so intimidating. I am bummed because I got my first top 10 ding and doubt I have a shot at any I guess. But I would love to pursue legal academia and I just can't help but think pursuing that with a full a scholly at USD is going to help my career in much of anyway. I could be wrong though? Maybe if I'm the only one trying sub top 20 I have a good shot? I am definitely feeling frustrated at myself for not being 'smart' enoughThe Brainalist wrote:This is just for your benefit, but I'm talking about the benefits of YHS which people perceive to be unique to those three schools, specifically access to academia here, but it would probably include clerking or politics in people's minds as well. That would be compared to the schools that are otherwise the same but for differences in placement in those areas, such as Columbia or Chicago.ajax adonis wrote:Eh, you can have all the confidence in the world, but if you're outside T14, it's extremely hard.The Brainalist wrote:
I'd also bet that Yale wouldn't be placing so many in academia if so many of them did not try for academia.
You know, a good argument could be made that much of the benefit of ending up at YSH comes in the form of confidence or perceived opportunities.
I don't think it was Leiter's stuff, though he used to do a lot, but I thought I saw somewhere a comparison of those who were trying to land something at whatever meat market they have every year for legal hiring vs. those who landed it. If I remember right, surprisingly few non-HYS grads were even trying for academia.
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Re: Legal Academia
Think of it as a favor. If you can't get HYS it's difficult to imagine that you'd have anything substantive to add to legal academia anyhow. You end up looking like a Paul Campos idiot, making shit up because you're butt hurt over teaching at a TTT.superhopefulwoo wrote:Looking at the faculty at most law schools, their degrees are so intimidating. I am bummed because I got my first top 10 ding and doubt I have a shot at any I guess. But I would love to pursue legal academia and I just can't help but think pursuing that with a full a scholly at USD is going to help my career in much of anyway. I could be wrong though? Maybe if I'm the only one trying sub top 20 I have a good shot? I am definitely feeling frustrated at myself for not being 'smart' enoughThe Brainalist wrote:This is just for your benefit, but I'm talking about the benefits of YHS which people perceive to be unique to those three schools, specifically access to academia here, but it would probably include clerking or politics in people's minds as well. That would be compared to the schools that are otherwise the same but for differences in placement in those areas, such as Columbia or Chicago.ajax adonis wrote:Eh, you can have all the confidence in the world, but if you're outside T14, it's extremely hard.The Brainalist wrote:
I'd also bet that Yale wouldn't be placing so many in academia if so many of them did not try for academia.
You know, a good argument could be made that much of the benefit of ending up at YSH comes in the form of confidence or perceived opportunities.
I don't think it was Leiter's stuff, though he used to do a lot, but I thought I saw somewhere a comparison of those who were trying to land something at whatever meat market they have every year for legal hiring vs. those who landed it. If I remember right, surprisingly few non-HYS grads were even trying for academia.
P.S. before anyone tries to call me out on this, I'm referring to the "figures" he provided regarding NYU employment.
P.S.S. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that people who want academia picture themselves as the next Dworkin, so I don't think it's worth getting your hopes up over if you can't even get into HYS.
- John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Legal Academia
Incorrect. I, for one, love teaching and have a passion for the theory of the law. So I want to do both. That's all. I have no pretense of thinking I would be some seminal scholar. Do I think I could produce a few good ideas that contribute to the scholarship of my field? Sure. But mostly I want to teach law because I want to teach law.grapefruits wrote:P.S.S. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that people who want academia picture themselves as the next Dworkin, so I don't think it's worth getting your hopes up over if you can't even get into HYS.
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- star fox
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Re: Legal Academia
Even tho I think I would enjoy academia more than big law (if I eventually at some point go to U of Chicago. Anything beneath it and there's almost no shot at becoming a law prof) I don't think I could morally do it. I mean, unless you have zero empathy whatsoever it has to be tough to sleep at night knowing your students are paying your salary and in return you are supposed to prepare them for a legal career knowing that the vast majority are going to be SOL upon graduating. It'd be tough to interact and see the optimism of kids who are willing to work hard to study the law knowing what awaits them with a J.D. from whichever TTT hires you.
- star fox
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Re: Legal Academia
Even tho I think I would enjoy academia more than big law (if I eventually at some point go to U of Chicago. Anything beneath it and there's almost no shot at becoming a law prof) I don't think I could morally do it. I mean, unless you have zero empathy whatsoever it has to be tough to sleep at night knowing your students are paying your salary and in return you are supposed to prepare them for a legal career knowing that the vast majority are going to be SOL upon graduating. It'd be tough to interact and see the optimism of kids who are willing to work hard to study the law knowing what awaits them with a J.D. from whichever TTT hires you.
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Re: Legal Academia
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:Incorrect. I, for one, love teaching and have a passion for the theory of the law. So I want to do both. That's all. I have no pretense of thinking I would be some seminal scholar. Do I think I could produce a few good ideas that contribute to the scholarship of my field? Sure. But mostly I want to teach law because I want to teach law.grapefruits wrote:P.S.S. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that people who want academia picture themselves as the next Dworkin, so I don't think it's worth getting your hopes up over if you can't even get into HYS.
Are you a 0L? Do you have the "novel" idea of putting would be law makers behind the veil of ignorance?
On an unrelated note, I hear Columbia needs a con. law (maybe crim., can't remember) prof. ASAP. Look, there are jobs!
- A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Legal Academia
Keep in mind, though, that the teaching part is heavily undervalued in legal academia. Publications are the coin of the realm; teaching is what you have to do because it pays the bills. (Unless you do something like teach practice-oriented courses at a community college or the like.)
And I agree that it would be tough to teach at most law schools, given the employment outcomes they'd face. But getting hired at HYS has got to be harder than getting into them in the first place. And given the bias away from practitioners, getting hired in legal academia usually means you have very little practice experience, which means you're (in theory) teaching students to do something you yourself spent almost no time doing. It's a quandary.
(This isn't meant to be a comment on anyone here's shot at academia, just general comments.)
And I agree that it would be tough to teach at most law schools, given the employment outcomes they'd face. But getting hired at HYS has got to be harder than getting into them in the first place. And given the bias away from practitioners, getting hired in legal academia usually means you have very little practice experience, which means you're (in theory) teaching students to do something you yourself spent almost no time doing. It's a quandary.
(This isn't meant to be a comment on anyone here's shot at academia, just general comments.)
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Re: Legal Academia
I don't think that me not getting into HYS means I wouldn't be able to make valuable contributions to the legal academia field. Like previous poster , I enjoy teaching and I enjoy doing research. I don't think my aspirations are unrealistic. I think it is presumptive to state that anyone 'unable' to get into HYS can't be expected to make worthy contributions... I think there are plenty of incredibly intelligent people who didn't get 175+ their first try on the lsat, and their score is by no means an accurate indicator of how valuable their contributions to academia could be.
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Re: Legal Academia
john7234797 wrote:Even tho I think I would enjoy academia more than big law (if I eventually at some point go to U of Chicago. Anything beneath it and there's almost no shot at becoming a law prof) I don't think I could morally do it. I mean, unless you have zero empathy whatsoever it has to be tough to sleep at night knowing your students are paying your salary and in return you are supposed to prepare them for a legal career knowing that the vast majority are going to be SOL upon graduating. It'd be tough to interact and see the optimism of kids who are willing to work hard to study the law knowing what awaits them with a J.D. from whichever TTT hires you.
Take comfort in the fact the the government, I.e. people making $100k+/yr, and China, are actually the ones paying for it; as well as the fact that 100% of law students are adults, so if they don't know better, they deserve it.
- hohenheim
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Re: Legal Academia
So retakesuperhopefulwoo wrote:I don't think that me not getting into HYS means I wouldn't be able to make valuable contributions to the legal academia field. Like previous poster , I enjoy teaching and I enjoy doing research. I don't think my aspirations are unrealistic. I think it is presumptive to state that anyone 'unable' to get into HYS can't be expected to make worthy contributions... I think there are plenty of incredibly intelligent people who didn't get 175+ their first try on the lsat, and their score is by no means an accurate indicator of how valuable their contributions to academia could be.
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Re: Legal Academia
Lol what? Just world fallacy much?superhopefulwoo wrote:I don't think that me not getting into HYS means I wouldn't be able to make valuable contributions to the legal academia field. Like previous poster , I enjoy teaching and I enjoy doing research. I don't think my aspirations are unrealistic. I think it is presumptive to state that anyone 'unable' to get into HYS can't be expected to make worthy contributions... I think there are plenty of incredibly intelligent people who didn't get 175+ their first try on the lsat, and their score is by no means an accurate indicator of how valuable their contributions to academia could be.
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Re: Legal Academia
This thread reminds me of all the "What schools besides the T14 are good for big law" threads.
You may think you can contribute to legal academia. That's great. But no one else will think that. Yale or change your goals.
You may think you can contribute to legal academia. That's great. But no one else will think that. Yale or change your goals.
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Re: Legal Academia
What I am trying to get across is that I don't think its right to deem someone 'not good enough' because they don't attend HYS. I am open to the fact that I may be wrong or too idealistic. It just seems like most people value prestige more than what an individual has to offer. Again, I may be wrong...! It is just my humble opinion.Suralin wrote:Lol what? Just world fallacy much?superhopefulwoo wrote:I don't think that me not getting into HYS means I wouldn't be able to make valuable contributions to the legal academia field. Like previous poster , I enjoy teaching and I enjoy doing research. I don't think my aspirations are unrealistic. I think it is presumptive to state that anyone 'unable' to get into HYS can't be expected to make worthy contributions... I think there are plenty of incredibly intelligent people who didn't get 175+ their first try on the lsat, and their score is by no means an accurate indicator of how valuable their contributions to academia could be.
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Re: Legal Academia
Not to be overly mean, but your opinion doesn't matter. Hiring committees look for top shelf credentials. That's how it works.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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