Am I crazy for attending Duke at sticker minus COL? Forum

[AllDangle]

My goals are biglaw or clerkship>biglaw. I am from the south with ties to Florida (family and legal profession) and North Carolina (family). My target markets are D.C., Atlanta, Florida, Charlotte and NY (pretty much in that order). My alternative is continuing to work in a position as a paralegal. As the title says, my cost of living expenses are paid for.

[nebula666]

Sticker is always risky but with CoL paid for, I don't think it's a bad move. 56% into biglaw / clerkships is pretty solid.

[rad lulz]

So what's total debt?

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I would look in to regional schools where you could attend on a full ride. Given your plans, I'd look at GW, W&L, W&M, Emory, WFU, UF, and Fordham...its great that you have COL covered, but tuition is still like $200k.

[nebula666]

I would look in to regional schools where you could attend on a full ride. Given your plans, I'd look at GW, W&L, W&M, Emory, WFU, UF, and Fordham...its great that you have COL covered, but tuition is still like $200k.

I may be reading too much into Op's situation, but I would have guessed the reason Duke is free for CoL is because his family is from NC, ie, he can live at home. If that is not the case, I agree with you.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I would look in to regional schools where you could attend on a full ride. Given your plans, I'd look at GW, W&L, W&M, Emory, WFU, UF, and Fordham...its great that you have COL covered, but tuition is still like $200k.

I may be reading too much into Op's situation, but I would have guessed the reason Duke is free for CoL is because his family is from NC, ie, he can live at home. If that is not the case, I agree with you.

UNC should be added to the list if this is the case, since you could live at home and attend as a resident.

[AllDangle]

I wouldn't be living with family in NC. I just have some immediate family there.

[RodneyRuxin]

OP:

I know you're trying to be reassured after someone made a thread asking about a school ranked higher than yours and got a lot of positive comments.

Duke is a good school, but DC isn't easy to break into and you're going to have to have good grades.
Your next two options are secondary markets. If those are really higher on the list than biglaw in NYC, then there's some merit to considering a local school with a great scholarship.

TCR is that this is a personal decision and you're going to get mixed responses.
If you're doing it for a confidence boost, then the negative answers are going to hit you harder than the positive are going to bring you up--so this thread is a bad idea.

[northwood]

whats an approximation of your total debt going to be? do you have a lot of UG loans? do you have any scholarship options? If you want better insight, more information about your options would be better?

plus, are you sure that you dont have to pay for COL? For all 3 years? otherwise, the cost of DUKE will increase tremendously and render this conversation/debate/ question pretty much moot.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

another thing to consider is the reality behind your numbers. for instance, if someone had a 3.1/175, and the low GPA was because they had a really hard undergrad major, I would be more likely to encourage them to go to Duke because it's more likely they will be in the top half of their class. Nothing is a guarantee, but its more likely. Similarly, if someone is 4.0/163, and had an easier major at maybe a less prestigious school, I would be even more cautious suggesting Duke because the school wants them for their GPA, but their LSAT is below the 25%, and the high gpa may have a lot to do with their major and where they went to school. You need to be really strategic about this choice, because at a place like Duke virtually everyone has a high gpa/LSAT, and there are a dozen or two people in every class with crazy high numbers who are attending with huge financial aid, and may have turned down YHS to go there.

[Tiago Splitter]

another thing to consider is the reality behind your numbers. for instance, if someone had a 3.1/175, and the low GPA was because they had a really hard undergrad major, I would be more likely to encourage them to go to Duke because it's more likely they will be in the top half of their class.

I don't know if I agree it's more likely they'll finish top half (in part because of how poorly people evaluate the difficulty of their own major), but someone with a 3.1/175 has pretty limited options beyond Duke at sticker, so paying sticker for Duke makes more sense than it would for someone with a 3.7/169.

OP would you have COL covered everywhere?

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

another thing to consider is the reality behind your numbers. for instance, if someone had a 3.1/175, and the low GPA was because they had a really hard undergrad major, I would be more likely to encourage them to go to Duke because it's more likely they will be in the top half of their class.

I don't know if I agree it's more likely they'll finish top half (in part because of how poorly people evaluate the difficulty of their own major), but someone with a 3.1/175 has pretty limited options beyond Duke at sticker, so paying sticker for Duke makes more sense than it would for someone with a 3.7/169.

OP would you have COL covered everywhere?

that's a good point.

[dsn32]

OP:

I know you're trying to be reassured after someone made a thread asking about a school ranked higher than yours and got a lot of positive comments.

Duke is a good school, but DC isn't easy to break into and you're going to have to have good grades.
Your next two options are secondary markets. If those are really higher on the list than biglaw in NYC, then there's some merit to considering a local school with a great scholarship.

TCR is that this is a personal decision and you're going to get mixed responses.
If you're doing it for a confidence boost, then the negative answers are going to hit you harder than the positive are going to bring you up--so this thread is a bad idea.

So the consensus is that Penn would be worth it at sticker, but Duke probably not? Two of the five schools I'm looking at, so relevant for me.

[rad lulz]

OP:

I know you're trying to be reassured after someone made a thread asking about a school ranked higher than yours and got a lot of positive comments.

Duke is a good school, but DC isn't easy to break into and you're going to have to have good grades.
Your next two options are secondary markets. If those are really higher on the list than biglaw in NYC, then there's some merit to considering a local school with a great scholarship.

TCR is that this is a personal decision and you're going to get mixed responses.
If you're doing it for a confidence boost, then the negative answers are going to hit you harder than the positive are going to bring you up--so this thread is a bad idea.

So the consensus is that Penn would be worth it at sticker, but Duke probably not? Two of the five schools I'm looking at, so relevant for me.

Drop out from both if you don't get a 2L SA.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

OP:

I know you're trying to be reassured after someone made a thread asking about a school ranked higher than yours and got a lot of positive comments.

Duke is a good school, but DC isn't easy to break into and you're going to have to have good grades.
Your next two options are secondary markets. If those are really higher on the list than biglaw in NYC, then there's some merit to considering a local school with a great scholarship.

TCR is that this is a personal decision and you're going to get mixed responses.
If you're doing it for a confidence boost, then the negative answers are going to hit you harder than the positive are going to bring you up--so this thread is a bad idea.

So the consensus is that Penn would be worth it at sticker, but Duke probably not? Two of the five schools I'm looking at, so relevant for me.

I'm not sure what the consensus is on TLS, but note that the fact that something is a consensus position does not mean that it is correct. I think the consensus on this site is that its a very risky proposition to attend any school outside of HYS at sticker, and below the T14 it moves from risky to reckless to crazy quickly, absent very special circumstances (i.e. a guaranteed job in a family member's firm making 100k at graduation regardless of grades).

[lawyerwannabe]

If Penn is worth sticker, then Duke is worth sticker. The only schools markedly better than either are HYSC IMO. Nevertheless, these types of choices are very personal. You need to asses your risk tolerance and your other options. You are essentially looking at being over $150k in debt with a 50% chance at Biglaw. There is not really a wrong answer just a personal choice. Good luck.

[Crowing]

duke at sticker: crazy? no. scary? yes.

[Real Madrid]

If Penn is worth sticker, then Duke is worth sticker. The only schools markedly better than either are HYSC IMO. Nevertheless, these types of choices are very personal. You need to asses your risk tolerance and your other options. You are essentially looking at being over $150k in debt with a 50% chance at Biglaw. There is not really a wrong answer just a personal choice. Good luck.

This crap has got to stop.

[otnemem]

You wouldn't be crazy. However, I personally wouldn't do it, nor would I recommend it to a friend in most situations.

That being said, it you are a splitter who isn't going to get significant money elsewhere, and you have poor non-law school options, Duke for 180k in debt or so might make sense.

[Ti Malice]

duke at sticker: crazy? no. scary? yes.

[DaleCooper]

I would look in to regional schools where you could attend on a full ride. Given your plans, I'd look at GW, W&L, W&M, Emory, WFU, UF, and Fordham...its great that you have COL covered, but tuition is still like $200k.

UNC should be added to the list if this is the case, since you could live at home and attend as a resident.

I'm Tar Heel born and Tar Heel bred, but... no. No to UNC, no to GW, no to W&L, no to Emory and Wake and Florida and Fordham. Free COL and sticker at Duke is kind of like a one-third scholarship, and you'd be clinically insane to take even a full ride at any of those schools over a third at Duke.

(I was offered the Chancellor's Scholarship at UNC and $20k at Duke before I got into NYU, and I chose Duke. Even though I hate Duke. It's just such a better law school on every level. Undergrad? No. Med School? No. Most Ph.D. programs? No. But UNC Law is just not in the same universe, particularly if you want to stay in NC... As far as I can tell, bottom 40% at Duke is like top 10% at UNC if you have ties. There just aren't enough Duke JDs sticking around, and the name on the degree is worth a lot on a firm's website. Also, Duke Law has a really impressive, grounded, well-rounded student body relative to a lot of other T14s. Which is funny, because their undergrads are spoiled little gremlins. Choose Duke, and don't look back.)

[rickgrimes69]

Duke student here. I wouldn't attend any school south of HYS at full boat. Knocking off COL helps a little, but it's still scary. However, your significant Southern ties will help you. For all the talk about how Duke is a NY focused school (which is true), the South loves Duke and vice versa. It's your call - I would say maybe plan on cutting your losses if you're in the bottom quarter after 1L.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I would look in to regional schools where you could attend on a full ride. Given your plans, I'd look at GW, W&L, W&M, Emory, WFU, UF, and Fordham...its great that you have COL covered, but tuition is still like $200k.

UNC should be added to the list if this is the case, since you could live at home and attend as a resident.

I'm Tar Heel born and Tar Heel bred, but... no. No to UNC, no to GW, no to W&L, no to Emory and Wake and Florida and Fordham. Free COL and sticker at Duke is kind of like a one-third scholarship, and you'd be clinically insane to take even a full ride at any of those schools over a third at Duke.

(I was offered the Chancellor's Scholarship at UNC and $20k at Duke before I got into NYU, and I chose Duke. Even though I hate Duke. It's just such a better law school on every level. Undergrad? No. Med School? No. Most Ph.D. programs? No. But UNC Law is just not in the same universe, particularly if you want to stay in NC... As far as I can tell, bottom 40% at Duke is like top 10% at UNC if you have ties. There just aren't enough Duke JDs sticking around, and the name on the degree is worth a lot on a firm's website. Also, Duke Law has a really impressive, grounded, well-rounded student body relative to a lot of other T14s. Which is funny, because their undergrads are spoiled little gremlins. Choose Duke, and don't look back.)

Haha. Well, call me crazy because I did it. And I do not think that below median at Duke gives you equal opportunities to top 10% at UNC or any of the schools I listed. If you are at a reputable school (at T1) and you have top grades, you will have good options. But there's a big risk, because if you attend one of those schools and don't do well you will have uncertain and likely bad options. On the other hand, all of the evidence suggests that bottom 40% at Duke or a peer school, even with ties, big law is not secure and even a law job at graduation is uncertain.

[SportsFan]

duke at sticker: crazy? no. scary? yes.

This is pretty much how I feel paying sticker at Penn, fwiw.

[star fox]

LOL at this 0L circle **** that will probably leave the OP SOL

Care to elaborate? I'm always interested in reading perspectives from 2L/3L/law grads.