Penn v. Cardozo $$$ (poll) Forum

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:16 pm

I should probably wait until scholarship info comes out from other schools in the T-14, but I'm a splitter and I don't anticipate getting anything worthwhile.

Cardozo gave me $40k a year, which I'm anticipating negotiating up to full tuition if the time comes. I wouldn't pay to attend. COL for me will be ~$15k a year, bringing the total COA to $45k.

Penn hasn't given me any money, though I am hoping for some need-based aid which may be realistic given my family circumstances. COL would be ~$40k for three years.

I want PI, but mostly I just want a job, which makes Cardozo super unappealing.

cahwc12 · Post by **cahwc12** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:34 pm

I think it boils down to:

How likely do you feel you will be able to service $270,000 in educational debt from Penn?
44% of Penn's graduating class made in excess of $145,000/yr.
66% of the class made in excess of $62,688/yr.
85% of graduates have non-school-funded jobs as lawyers.

How likely do you feel you will be able to service $120,000 in educational debt from Cardozo?
Cardozo has no available information about salary distribution among its graduates.
51% of graduates have non-school-funded jobs as lawyers.

I'm sure you've looked up this just as I have, but here's what it boils down to:

If you attend Cardozo, even at $40k/yr discount, with COA you're going to take on a crushing debt load serviceable only with a high paying job, of which there are an unknown amount. And at Cardozo, only half of the 302 graduates had a legal job of any kind.

If you attend Penn (presumably at sticker), with COA you're going to take on a crushing debt load serviceable only with a high paying job, of which 44% of last year's graduates ended up with. At Penn, nearly 90% of 261 graduates ended up with legal jobs.

And I'd wager that the school-funded positions Penn graduates get are at least slightly better than the ones Cardozo grads get.

ndirish2010 · Post by **ndirish2010** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:58 pm

Dude, the question is Penn (sticker) vs. retake.

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:00 pm

I retook a 170 and got a 172. Do you still think I should retake?

ndirish2010 · Post by **ndirish2010** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:02 pm

francesfarmer wrote:I retook a 170 and got a 172. Do you still think I should retake?

I just realized you said you were a splitter. In that case, retaking isn't going to do much for you. So, go to Penn. Nobody with a 172 should go to Cardozo. I assume you want to practice in NYC, though? So why not Fordham if they would give you decent money?

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:04 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:I retook a 170 and got a 172. Do you still think I should retake?
I just realized you said you were a splitter. In that case, retaking isn't going to do much for you. So, go to Penn. Nobody with a 172 should go to Cardozo. I assume you want to practice in NYC, though? So why not Fordham if they would give you decent money?

I don't think Fordham would give me enough money to justify not going to a T-14. I didn't apply.

bluepenguin · Post by **bluepenguin** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:05 pm

I'd vote Penn. If you swing PI their LRAP is pretty solid. I'd just be too worried about Dozo's employment figures. You could always try to beg for money from Penn.

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:06 pm

bluepenguin wrote:I'd vote Penn. If you swing PI their LRAP is pretty solid. I'd just be too worried about Dozo's employment figures. You could always try to beg for money from Penn.

I definitely plan on doing a lot of begging.

ndirish2010 · Post by **ndirish2010** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:08 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:I retook a 170 and got a 172. Do you still think I should retake?
I just realized you said you were a splitter. In that case, retaking isn't going to do much for you. So, go to Penn. Nobody with a 172 should go to Cardozo. I assume you want to practice in NYC, though? So why not Fordham if they would give you decent money?
I don't think Fordham would give me enough money to justify not going to a T-14. I didn't apply.

Good point, though they gave me 15K and I didn't have the numbers for any T14, much less Penn.

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:10 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:I retook a 170 and got a 172. Do you still think I should retake?
I just realized you said you were a splitter. In that case, retaking isn't going to do much for you. So, go to Penn. Nobody with a 172 should go to Cardozo. I assume you want to practice in NYC, though? So why not Fordham if they would give you decent money?
I don't think Fordham would give me enough money to justify not going to a T-14. I didn't apply.
Good point, though they gave me 15K and I didn't have the numbers for any T14, much less Penn.

I have not seen Fordham be kind to splitters in terms of money and if I'm going to take out over $100k in loans, I'm going to go to a T-14. Or just not go.

toothbrush · Post by **toothbrush** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:10 pm

You're a smart girl. Go to Penn. You know the answer when you made the post and wrote " i really want a job, which makes cardozo unappealing.."

bluepenguin · Post by **bluepenguin** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:10 pm

Do you have any other T14s or T30$$$'s for leverage? Financial aid could be interesting this cycle. You might get some money, especially if they need to keep their median at 170.

ndirish2010 · Post by **ndirish2010** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:11 pm

Yeah, go to Penn. You are far more logical than most who appear on these boards.

Crowing · Post by **Crowing** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:12 pm

lol the poll results pretty much speak for themselves

but seriously, i understand being debt averse, but in terms of risk, cardozo is clearly the riskier option here even though it's cheaper because of CoL + good chance of no job after 3 years of school. i really think the only options here are penn or don't go, and nobody can really comment on that being outside of your personal situation.

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:15 pm

bluepenguin wrote:Do you have any other T14s or T30$$$'s for leverage? Financial aid could be interesting this cycle. You might get some money, especially if they need to keep their median at 170.

I got $10k/year from Michigan and I might get something from GULC/Cornell/NU but I haven't heard back yet. From what I have read here, Penn doesn't really negotiate with scholarships below CCN.

I know Penn is the better choice but sticker anywhere is just so unappealing, it really makes me wish I wanted to be anything but a lawyer.

ndirish2010 · Post by **ndirish2010** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:16 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
bluepenguin wrote:Do you have any other T14s or T30$$$'s for leverage? Financial aid could be interesting this cycle. You might get some money, especially if they need to keep their median at 170.
I got $10k/year from Michigan and I might get something from GULC/Cornell/NU but I haven't heard back yet. From what I have read here, Penn doesn't really negotiate with scholarships below CCN.

I know Penn is the better choice but sticker anywhere is just so unappealing, it really makes me wish I wanted to be anything but a lawyer.

$$$ from Cornell might be worth it.

How do people feel about Michigan vs. Penn now? CoL in AA is cheaper than in Philly so that would actually be a significant difference.

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:20 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
bluepenguin wrote:Do you have any other T14s or T30$$$'s for leverage? Financial aid could be interesting this cycle. You might get some money, especially if they need to keep their median at 170.
I got $10k/year from Michigan and I might get something from GULC/Cornell/NU but I haven't heard back yet. From what I have read here, Penn doesn't really negotiate with scholarships below CCN.

I know Penn is the better choice but sticker anywhere is just so unappealing, it really makes me wish I wanted to be anything but a lawyer.
$$$ from Cornell might be worth it.

How do people feel about Michigan vs. Penn now? CoL in AA is cheaper than in Philly so that would actually be a significant difference.

Michigan's employment stats are WAY worse than Penn's so its not even a contender for me, even with the $10k. I am not going to take out anywhere near COL in Philly (and I wouldn't in NYC either--I lived on ~$14k in NYC for two years and I will do it again) so the difference wouldn't be that significant for me.

Do you really think I would get $$$ from Cornell? They place pretty much no one into PI and I don't think I'll get significant money from them based on LSN, but its been a while since I looked.

toothbrush · Post by **toothbrush** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:20 pm

Did you get NYU ? Their LRAP is strong for PI and I'd say its' the "safest" sticker you could pay for PI...

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:21 pm

toothbrush wrote:Did you get NYU ? Their LRAP is strong for PI and I'd say its' the "safest" sticker you could pay for PI...

Nope. ED app was deferred. I'm anticipating WL but I'm mentally preparing for my rejection

toothbrush · Post by **toothbrush** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:23 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
toothbrush wrote:Did you get NYU ? Their LRAP is strong for PI and I'd say its' the "safest" sticker you could pay for PI...
Nope. ED app was deferred. I'm anticipating WL but I'm mentally preparing for my rejection

eeeeeehhhh I'd put my chips on an acceptance.

IMO wait it out a bit til april. that sticker at penn isn't leaving and neither is cordlolzo $$$

just wait and see for NYU and money from others ?

ndirish2010 · Post by **ndirish2010** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:23 pm

I don't know if Cornell usually gives money to those below their GPA median (which I assume you are?).

Sorry I'm a 3L and haven't done this in a while.

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:25 pm

toothbrush wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
toothbrush wrote:Did you get NYU ? Their LRAP is strong for PI and I'd say its' the "safest" sticker you could pay for PI...
Nope. ED app was deferred. I'm anticipating WL but I'm mentally preparing for my rejection
eeeeeehhhh I'd put my chips on an acceptance.

IMO wait it out a bit til april. that sticker at penn isn't leaving and neither is cordlolzo $$$

just wait and see for NYU and money from others ?

Thanks for the support, I'm definitely waiting it out. I'm just going crazy trying to decide based on my current options. I wish Cardozo would pay me to go there.

Rahviveh · Post by **Rahviveh** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:26 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:I don't know if Cornell usually gives money to those below their GPA median (which I assume you are?).

Sorry I'm a 3L and haven't done this in a while.

They do.

If OP gets anything from them it'll be between 30-60k. I'd guess 30k.

toothbrush · Post by **toothbrush** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:28 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
toothbrush wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
toothbrush wrote:Did you get NYU ? Their LRAP is strong for PI and I'd say its' the "safest" sticker you could pay for PI...
Nope. ED app was deferred. I'm anticipating WL but I'm mentally preparing for my rejection
eeeeeehhhh I'd put my chips on an acceptance.

IMO wait it out a bit til april. that sticker at penn isn't leaving and neither is cordlolzo $$$

just wait and see for NYU and money from others ?
Thanks for the support, I'm definitely waiting it out. I'm just going crazy trying to decide based on my current options. I wish Cardozo would pay me to go there.

I'm with you and I understand your anxiety. Just wait a few more months with all your options available and then revisit this conversation.

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:29 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:I don't know if Cornell usually gives money to those below their GPA median (which I assume you are?).

Sorry I'm a 3L and haven't done this in a while.

I'm below every T-14's 25th percentile except NU. Its pretty much the worst but I guess I can't complain much!

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