Notre Dame vs Minnesota vs Indiana-Bloomington (all w/$$) Forum

[majnana]

Please weigh in. I am not from the midwest, but am interested in practicing there. My home state is Hawaii (not interested in going back), and I currently reside in Texas, so although Texas would be of some interest I'm mostly interested in the midwest because I'd like to live in a secondary legal market in a very "livable" city. I have young children already, and I don't want to raise them in a Chicago/NYC/LA type of area. I'd like a Columbus, Seattle, Twin Cities, etc type of city.

Now, I know that people say to go to a school in the region where you want to practice. But with 25K/year scholarships from ND, MN and UIB, and all situated in the midwest, I'm starting to feel a little panicky. I honestly lean towards Notre Dame as far as just liking the feel of a school (well, what you can feel without having the means to go visit prior to matriculation). However, it doesn't have a home market and Minnesota definitely does. IUB has Indianapolis, as well. I also have the option of Ohio State at similar money, which is situated in Columbus.

It's great to have all these on the table, but the months seem to be passing quickly and I need to figure out where to go. I can't find much information on ND's placement in areas with strong regional schools (like Columbus, Twin Cities, etc) and imagine the home schools place better. But ND would be MUCH cheaper of an area to reside in during law school, which makes the scholarship stretch farther (plus I have kids to raise while in school, which is expensive).

Oh yes, and ND states they do not negotiate scholarships. I am assuming that perhaps MN or UIB might be open to raising scholarship offers, although I haven't broached that yet with any schools. Maybe, considering the amounts are already substantive, they will laugh in my face (just kidding... I'm sure they wait until after students hang up to laugh ).

Anyone care to offer advice, either generally or school-specific? If ND was located in or near to a city (other than Chicago) then this would be an easier choice, I think. But with kids already, I sure like the idea of settling in an area for school and not having to move after graduation. And I'm concerned that ND's reach is almost *too* broad. Since I'm not taking the degree back to my own home market/state, I'm concerned that a lack of ties in the midwest will prevent me from landing a job with that ND degree. Especially if I'm not looking at the 100 hours/week Biglaw jobs in Chicago. Whereas if I were to go to Minnesota there in the Twin Cities (or Ohio State in Columbus, etc) then I will have some "ties" by the time I graduate, in the form of a working spouse and children who attend elementary school. I have to imagine that a spouse's career and kids in a local school district are compelling evidence to a law firm that you're likely to stick around a while if given the job.

Please chime in!

[soccerfreak]

Of those, I'd say Notre Dame is likely the most prestigious/likely to get you a good job, as well as the most versatile in terms of which city you could end up in (and lay prestige if that ends up being somewhere like Texas). Money is big though as well...it sounds like you have the same scholarships at each school, but that doesn't mean you'll be paying the same tuition. Make sure you check out what the debt coming out of each is. Other than that...I'd say check out local school districts and the like, figure out where you'd like to raise a family.

Additionally, don't assume that any of those schools "own" their markets, or that "owning" a market means too much. There are not a ton of jobs in either Minneapolis or Indianapolis; solid secondary markets to be sure, but will still be VERY competitive.

[ndirish2010]

The problem with Minneapolis and Indy is that they are very insular. Just going to ND or IU is not going to really get you into Indy without ties. I actually really want to end up there, it is an awesome city, but I couldn't get a firm job there 2L summer w/ qualified grades at ND and ND undergrad and a 3 year relationship w/ an Indiana native (though she is not from Indy). IU should be a little better, but I would be a bit wary about going there w/ no ties to the state. Like I said, Indy is very insular. There are very few people practicing there who are not born and raised Hoosiers and they are skeptical of people from other regions. I was asked every week last summer why I was in Indy. That being said, I hope to get back there post-clerkship, and am hoping that my 2L summer did convince some people.

[majnana]

Hi ndirish2010, glad to see you here (I was hoping you'd see this thread and weigh in). So with the insular cities in the midwest, esp. the ones you mentioned, where are all the ND grads going? LST has a huge list of states (instead of one or two like most schools) for grad placement for ND, so I know they spread out and a lot go back to their home states. But I'm not interested in going back to my home state... And I've read that in recent years the OCI at NDLS is made up mostly of midwest firms, with less firms from CA and NYC coming in. If that's true, what midwest cities/states are they coming from? Are they only recruiting NDLS people that are already from those states, or are firms interested in people who want to move there for the first time?

I know I cannot rely on OCI for job placement, but since I cannot cultivate ties in other midwest cities while living in South Bend I will have to rely on a mixture of OCI and cold mailing to get jobs if I go to NDLS. And if I don't go to NDLS I think I might always feel that I should have gone. It's the difficulty in establishing midwest ties while living in South Bend that concerns me. Unless firms from less-insular cities in the midwest are actively recruiting non-natives or at least open to receiving resumes from non-native NDLS grads.

I wouldn't mind ending up somewhere like Sacramento, either, if I could get a job there without ties. I just don't know how hard that is after spending the law school years in South Bend.