Smiles per Dollar: A Qualitative Analysis of Law Schools Forum

[red8aron]

When choosing a law school a lot of factors come into play. Some are more important that other. To most of us, job opportunities are the biggest factor. But I'm interested in TSL's opinion of the different value of schools prestige if we ignored the job benefits.

My reasoning behind this is anecdotal. My father finished a engineering degree after dropping out of school for about 20 years. He already had a well paying job and had no intention of using the degree, but he defiantly was a happier person after completing the degree. I think it was an affirmation of his own intelligence. He finished a competitive degree that many can't. And every time he thinks of his success he smiles a little

In the same way that he can look at his degree and see what he accomplished, I think we see different values in admittance to different schools. I imagine most of us would pay a bit more to hang a Harvard degree on the wall than State School X even if it didn't mean we would get a better job.

So the question is, how much is that worth? If you knew you would get a great job no matter where you go to school, how much more would you pay to hang a degree that shows just how hard you worked to get into that school?

Nothing - 20,000$ - 50,000$ - 200,000$ or any other number?

To answer the poll, ask yourself how much more you would pay for a T14 degree, without any better job prospects that a generic school in the 50-100 range.

If you like, you can also post some analysis of how to determine an accurate value, or make more specific parings like
"I'll pay 500,000$ more for a Harvard degree than a U Chicago degree because of those idiot economists" (JK, try not to troll like that, I actually love U Chicago, have a close friend there, and wish I had the scores to get in! )

[dextermorgan]

Without better employment?

Anyone who answers anything more than $0 is an idiot.

Also dude, there is a big difference between having a degree from a T2 or T14, and not having a degree at all. Your dad's story doesn't really mesh up with your question.

[prezidentv8]

Without better employment?

Anyone who answers anything more than $0 is an idiot.

WUT ABOUT CRED WITH TEH LADIEZ???

[ChikaBoom]

Without that preftige and those job prospects, Harvard might as well be Cooley. But, cool about your dad, breh.

[TatteredDignity]

Dad analogy is misplaced because it's arguably more "difficult" to earn a degree from a TTT than from H. Like, you may have to go to class and beat 1/3 of your competition to avoid being kicked out of the program. Everyone graduates from H.

[paratactical]

T14 is worth leprechaun pot full of unicorn vomit smiles.

[Ludo!]

Two people are dumb. Or misread the question.

If I knew I could get a great job no matter where I went to law school I would be at People's right now

[red8aron]

Your dad's story doesn't really mesh up with your question.

The story is just an anecdote which draws a link to the possibility that there is an intangible value.
I appreciate the perspective that T14 without better employment has no value and I think rational economics agrees. I may even agree.

But I don't think it is the only correct answer, I've seen people post jokingly that they would "do highly illegal things" to go to X school. I don't think their only reason for this statement is money from a better job.

And I don't think someone is stupid to see value outside of tangible things like money. I think there is some value to the physical affirmation of an achievement. But I'm no expert, and I really am just as interested to see the types of responses that TLS's give.

[Mce252]

I would be willing to shoot myself in the face to go to Yale.

[prezidentv8]

I'll bite. If the job prospects were somehow completely the same from each, I'd probably pony up as much as a hundred bucks for the social value of a fancy degree.

[sinfiery]

props to your dad

the story does fit, I dunno what people are talking about
May not be a perfect comparison but the underlying point stands.

he spent significant money/time for no monetary gain but still perceived gain to himself.

same question being asked here.

[dextermorgan]

Your dad's story doesn't really mesh up with your question.

The story is just an anecdote which draws a link to the possibility that there is an intangible value.
I appreciate the perspective that T14 without better employment has no value and I think rational economics agrees. I may even agree.

But I don't think it is the only correct answer, I've seen people post jokingly that they would "do highly illegal things" to go to X school. I don't think their only reason for this statement is money from a better job.

And I don't think someone is stupid to see value outside of tangible things like money. I think there is some value to the physical affirmation of an achievement. But I'm no expert, and I really am just as interested to see the types of responses that TLS's give.

BTW I'm not dogging your dad. I think it's cool that he went back and finished. Hell, I hope to one day be financially secure enough to go get all the degrees I want.

[paratactical]

props to your dad

the story does fit, I dunno what people are talking about
May not be a perfect comparison but the underlying point stands.

he spent significant money/time for no monetary gain but still perceived gain to himself.

same question being asked here.

The question here requires the assumption that there exists a T14 and a T2 that have comprable economic incentives and that's false.

[sinfiery]

props to your dad

the story does fit, I dunno what people are talking about
May not be a perfect comparison but the underlying point stands.

he spent significant money/time for no monetary gain but still perceived gain to himself.

same question being asked here.

The question here requires the assumption that there exists a T14 and a T2 that have comprable economic incentives and that's false.

Well, if you think a person is unable to distinguish between financial obligations and non-financial reward even if asked to do so, you have a point.

[dextermorgan]

props to your dad

the story does fit, I dunno what people are talking about
May not be a perfect comparison but the underlying point stands.

he spent significant money/time for no monetary gain but still perceived gain to himself.

same question being asked here.

The question here requires the assumption that there exists a T14 and a T2 that have comprable economic incentives and that's false.

Or intellectual gains. THe ABA has made JDs just about the most generic degree you can get. That's actually why T14 is worth anything, they theoretically take smarter people going in and spit them out the other side (since no one really gets smarter in law school).

[rad lulz]

Without better employment?

Anyone who answers anything more than $0 is an idiot.

WUT ABOUT CRED WITH TEH LADIEZ???

dat LAY preftige

[red8aron]

props to your dad

the story does fit, I dunno what people are talking about
May not be a perfect comparison but the underlying point stands.

he spent significant money/time for no monetary gain but still perceived gain to himself.

same question being asked here.

The question here requires the assumption that there exists a T14 and a T2 that have comprable economic incentives and that's false.

First, that is not always true. For example someone with a strong connection to a firm they want to work at could get there with either a state school degree or a t14. If they know that is what they want because 1) it has reasonable pay 2) reasonable hours 3) close to family; that person may end up at the same place either way. Or, some Yale superstar could probably go to a lower ranked school (perhaps not T2, but T1 defiantly) and end up at the same place. Even some low ranked schools have sent 1 grad to clerk for the USSC. There is an argument to be made that better employment out of a top school is partially caused by smart students, not a great school.

Second, some lower ranked schools have general prestige. I added the poll to have a clear distinction between tangible and intangible value. But someone could prefer the intangible value of a well know school like Vanderbilt or Notre Dame instead of a less well known school with similar job prospects.

So, don't be too literal. Its a thought experiment which has application. Its not perfect, but its not meant to be. Its about something that is hard to weigh. Its easy to say no value, its hard to weigh out why it may have value and what that would be.

[red8aron]

Also, all zero values are forgetting the law school experience. I would pay more for 3 years at Berkeley than I would at UC Hastings or USF for that matter (I choose those two to minimize weather and other specific differences). Being a part of a really intelligent campus has value.

[bk1]

Being a part of a really intelligent campus has value.

I despise many of my "intelligent" classmates. Is there a law school where everyone realizes they're not a genius of the law and shuts the fuck up? I'd pay more for that.

[red8aron]

Being a part of a really intelligent campus has value.

I despise many of my "intelligent" classmates. Is there a law school where everyone realizes they're not a genius of the law and shuts the fuck up? I'd pay more for that.

Defiantly a fair point, though coming from a T2 undergrad, I can tell you that there are lots of stupid as well as smart people who drive me crazy. And there are a fair number of smart people who arn't annoying but improve the quality of a class.

I don't think its about being intelligent which causes people to be gunners, its about people thinking they are smart, or people being super competitive. Still if you want to avoid that sort of environment, it may be better to avoid top schools? But I don't have that info.

[Ludo!]

Also, all zero values are forgetting the law school experience. I would pay more for 3 years at Berkeley than I would at UC Hastings or USF for that matter (I choose those two to minimize weather and other specific differences). Being a part of a really intelligent campus has value.

What the fuck. So if you knew that you would get the exact same job from Berkeley that you would from USF you would still pay thousands of dollars more to go to Berkeley? This is objectively retarded.

In your magical hypothetical world where job prospects are equal the people paying more money for dat preftige at Berkeley wouldn't be the intelligent ones.

[red8aron]

What the fuck. So if you knew that you would get the exact same job from Berkeley that you would from USF you would still pay thousands of dollars more to go to Berkeley? This is objectively retarded.

In your magical hypothetical world where job prospects are equal the people paying more money for dat preftige at Berkeley wouldn't be the intelligent ones.

Haha, thats a good point, but my world is not self sustaining. I was more trying to point out that if I had to choose between between Berkeley and USF, I would pay more to be at Berkeley. And its not just about money or prestige, its about being part of something great. You have to admit that there is some cool scholarship which comes out Berkeley. I have chatted with intelligent people and come away with new ideas from the conversation.

Still, that is just part of the intangible aspects that potentially come out of schools like Berkeley. And, personally, Berkeley is my dream school, so it makes it easier for me to say.

Surly you have a dream school you would pay more more to attend, even if it wouldn't guarantee you a different job?

[Ludo!]

What the fuck. So if you knew that you would get the exact same job from Berkeley that you would from USF you would still pay thousands of dollars more to go to Berkeley? This is objectively retarded.

In your magical hypothetical world where job prospects are equal the people paying more money for dat preftige at Berkeley wouldn't be the intelligent ones.

Haha, thats a good point, but my world is not self sustaining. I was more trying to point out that if I had to choose between between Berkeley and USF, I would pay more to be at Berkeley. And its not just about money or prestige, its about being part of something great. You have to admit that there is some cool scholarship which comes out Berkeley. I have chatted with intelligent people and come away with new ideas from the conversation.

Still, that is just part of the intangible aspects that potentially come out of schools like Berkeley. And, personally, Berkeley is my dream school, so it makes it easier for me to say.

Surly you have a dream school you would pay more more to attend, even though it wouldn't guarantee you a different job?

No, not at all. I had dream schools that were dream schools because they offered a better chance of getting a job.

[sinfiery]

No, not at all. I had dream schools that were dream schools because they offered a better chance of getting a job.

You must think like 60% of UG majors are completely ridiculous.

[Ludo!]

No, not at all. I had dream schools that were dream schools because they offered a better chance of getting a job.

You must think like 60% of UG majors are completely ridiculous.

Doesn't everybody?