What's the word on UCI? Forum

[vanwinkle]

Because opening the eighth first tier/top 50 law school in the state of California during a down economy was an act of pure hubris and needs to be punished. Whether it miraculously lands in the top 20 and proceeds to take jobs from UCLA and USC grads, or it, more likely, lands in the lower half of the first tier and takes jobs away from Davis and Hastings grads, it was a pointless exercise.

The seven California law schools ranked in the first tier already combine to graduate over 5,500 lawyers every year. Add to that the fact that California is a very popular choice for T14 grads, and the fact that the very top grads of the lower ranked schools in the region are also competitive, and we have a massively oversaturated legal market.

Seriously, what was the f-ing point of this school? As far as I can tell, it's role in the law school system will be to serve that niche of SoCal kids that are (i) too dumb for UCLA or USC, (ii) too smart for Loyola or USD, and (iii) too provincial to make the long trek to UCD or Hastings.

So yeah, I hope it debuts low in the first tier and this starts a death spiral of bad consequences.

Sounds like someone got rejected from California law schools

Weak response to a decently solid post. The CA legal market really is over-saturated, and we honestly don't need more law schools anywhere right now, but especially not in CA.

[3ThrowAway99]

Sounds like someone got rejected from California law schools

Possibly, but that doesn't mean that the points of concern he/she posted are necessarily invalid. There was a heck of a lot of hype about UCI, and when the dust settles I have a hard time seeing it as being any better than UCD or UCH, which already have established histories and which this school will be competing with for jobs in CA.

Also, lol how there were tons of UC comparison charts posted and debated in this thread apparently referencing pecking order of all the UC law schools and UCH (Hastings) was completely left out. I'm not a student there and never had an interest in attending, but if you are going to try to make comprehensive pecking-order claims at least include the oldest public law school in CA in the discussion.

[enigmabk]

Sounds like someone got rejected from California law schools

Possibly, but that doesn't mean that the points of concern he/she posted are necessarily invalid. There was a heck of a lot of hype about UCI, and when the dust settles I have a hard time seeing it as being any better than UCD or UCH, which already have established histories and which this school will be competing with for jobs in CA.

Also, lol how there were tons of UC comparison charts posted and debated in this thread apparently referencing pecking order of all the UC law schools and UCH (Hastings) was completely left out. I'm not a student there and never had an interest in attending, but if you are going to try to make comprehensive pecking-order claims at least include the oldest public law school in CA in the discussion.

i think they were talking about undergrad

[timbs4339]

Dean Chemerinsky is doing this all on a bet- that his school can game the rankings to debut top 20, or that employers will want to hire UCI students over the grads of other more established schools because of a kickass faculty.

Right or wrong he still gets paid. If he's right- great, some jobs that would have gone to UCLA/USC/UCD/UCH grads go to UCI grads. If he's wrong-dozens of students at UCI are SoL, with bigdebt and nojerb.

This might be a great hypo to kick around in the faculty lounge, but Dean Chem is playing with people's futures here.

[Tiago Splitter]

Sounds like someone got rejected from California law schools

Possibly, but that doesn't mean that the points of concern he/she posted are necessarily invalid. There was a heck of a lot of hype about UCI, and when the dust settles I have a hard time seeing it as being any better than UCD or UCH, which already have established histories and which this school will be competing with for jobs in CA.

Also, lol how there were tons of UC comparison charts posted and debated in this thread apparently referencing pecking order of all the UC law schools and UCH (Hastings) was completely left out. I'm not a student there and never had an interest in attending, but if you are going to try to make comprehensive pecking-order claims at least include the oldest public law school in CA in the discussion.

i think they were talking about undergrad

LOL no we weren't. Anyone with a half a brain would take UC Santa Barbara's law school over UCH any day.

[bhan87]

Because opening the eighth first tier/top 50 law school in the state of California during a down economy was an act of pure hubris and needs to be punished. Whether it miraculously lands in the top 20 and proceeds to take jobs from UCLA and USC grads, or it, more likely, lands in the lower half of the first tier and takes jobs away from Davis and Hastings grads, it was a pointless exercise.

The seven California law schools ranked in the first tier already combine to graduate over 5,500 lawyers every year. Add to that the fact that California is a very popular choice for T14 grads, and the fact that the very top grads of the lower ranked schools in the region are also competitive, and we have a massively oversaturated legal market.

Seriously, what was the f-ing point of this school? As far as I can tell, it's role in the law school system will be to serve that niche of SoCal kids that are (i) too dumb for UCLA or USC, (ii) too smart for Loyola or USD, and (iii) too provincial to make the long trek to UCD or Hastings.

So yeah, I hope it debuts low in the first tier and this starts a death spiral of bad consequences.

Sounds like someone got rejected from California law schools

Weak response to a decently solid post. The CA legal market really is over-saturated, and we honestly don't need more law schools anywhere right now, but especially not in CA.

Fair enough. I think ideally, however, I'd rather see UCI succeed and Chapman / Whittier close their doors. Similarly it'd probably be better to see Cal Western, TJSL, Southwestern all go on a death spiral before UCI does.

[vanwinkle]

Fair enough. I think ideally, however, I'd rather see UCI succeed and Chapman / Whittier close their doors. Similarly it'd probably be better to see Cal Western, TJSL, Southwestern all go on a death spiral before UCI does.

If you have too many law schools, and you add one and lose one, you still have too many law schools.

[twenty]

Fair enough. I think ideally, however, I'd rather see UCI succeed and Chapman / Whittier close their doors. Similarly it'd probably be better to see Cal Western, TJSL, Southwestern all go on a death spiral before UCI does.

If you have too many law schools, and you add one and lose one, you still have too many law schools.

Keep in mind that both Whittier and Chapman both have significantly (more than double) the students UCI has. I'm somewhat familiar with the OC legal market -- it's dismal, but the biggest problem is the massive glut of graduates these other schools produce, not the inherent lack of jobs. Orange is financially doing a lot better than Los Angeles, San Diego, and exponentially better than Riverside or Kern.

I would feel far better graduating from UCI law than I would graduating from Davis, that's for sure.

[vanwinkle]

Keep in mind that both Whittier and Chapman both have significantly (more than double) the students UCI has. I'm somewhat familiar with the OC legal market -- it's dismal, but the biggest problem is the massive glut of graduates these other schools produce, not the inherent lack of jobs.

The "massive glut of graduates" and "inherent lack of jobs" are two sides of the same coin. If there were enough jobs to absorb the current number of graduates, we wouldn't be referring to it as a "glut".

The main problem is still too many law schools. Opening a new school, even a good law school, under these circumstances is still a waste of resources and a contribution to the overall problem.

Is it good that UCI has a smaller class size than these other schools? Yes. Are those other schools going away? No. Even if they did, would there be enough jobs for UCI to make sense? Probably not.

[dingbat]

The only reason to attend UCI is for the free full ride given to every stud... O wait, they stopped doing that, didn't they?
Nothing to see here, move along.
(seriously, why turn down a school with a solid alumni base and a proven track record and predictable employment stats?)

[LSTfan]

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[LSTfan]

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[Rahviveh]

Im all for UCI if they shut down Whittier, Chapman, Southwestern, and all the other shit schools in OC.

[06102016]

..

[BoGuaGua]

southwestern isn't shitty, otherwise credited

[Bildungsroman]

southwestern isn't shitty, otherwise credited

oh boy

[somewhatwayward]

southwestern isn't shitty, otherwise credited

Both Chapman and Southwestern need to close, but Chapman is less shitty than Southwestern

[Golden Bear 11]

ABA should shut down all law schools in CA except for Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, and USC.

[BoGuaGua]

berkeley and UCLA need to go too

[06102016]

..

[justonemoregame]

The only reason to attend UCI is for the free full ride given to every stud... O wait, they stopped doing that, didn't they?
Nothing to see here, move along.
(seriously, why turn down a school with a solid alumni base and a proven track record and predictable employment stats?)

Studs are still getting free full rides*


I'm a child, and I feel bad.

[6thbackstreetboy]

CA bar results for UCI July 2012: 90% passed

For comparison, here are the schools with the highest bar passage rate from July 2011:

1. USC 91%
2. Stanford 89%
3. UC-B 87%
4. Pepperdine 86%
5. UCLA 85%

[dingbat]

ABA should shut down all law schools in CA except for Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, and USC.

Eh. I interned with a judge and met a lot of judges/DAs/public defenders. A shit ton of them were from Loyola and Pepperdine. Plenty from Southwestern too, though I think that's changing. I think there's a place in the legal world for these schools, even if many who come out of them are unsuccessful and crippled by debt.

ETA: I mean a place for Tier 2 regional schools like Loyola/Pepperdine, not TTTs and below.

One reason TTTs should stay is that not every smart person has a talent for law, and while there's no empirical evidence, I'm willing to bet that the top student at a TTT would probably make a better lawyer than the bottom student of a T14. Being really smart can get you into a great school, but it doesn't mean you "get it".

[dproduct]

berkeley and UCLA need to go too

LOL

[LSTfan]

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