UC Irvine vs. Pepperdine $$$ vs. Loyola Forum

[GueritaPeloChino]

Just got in off the waitlist at UC Irvine and I'm going over my options. UC Davis was giving me 14k in grant money so I'm guessing UCI will be around the same amount. However, they are saying their merit aid is completely gone at this point =/

At Pepperdine i'm up to 25k/year renewable.

I'm only still considering Loyola in case they might make me an offer at the last minute....

I am attracted to UC Irvine's small class size, their highly-regarded faculty, and I'm overall pretty impressed. I still feel it's a gamble though since it's still unranked and all...

[Yukos]

Thread needs a poll.

These are all incredibly risky propositions. I would probably retake in your position. Otherwise, Pepperdine and Loyola are definitely out. It's just a matter of if you prefer a school with proven mediocre placement or a school with unproven mediocre placement.

[goldenflash19]

What's your COL situation? Do you have family with which you could live near any of these schools, or would you be footing the bill?

[partyrock]

2L at LLS here.

I didn't apply to UCI, but I had a similar scholarship offer at Davis, and ~$30k offers from LLS and Pepperdine (top 1/3 stip). I ended up going with LLS, and I couldn't be happier.

Given the range of schools you are looking at, I think it would be naive to say that UCI at sticker or Davis w/ a small scholarship will be more valuable, long term, than taking a large scholarship.

I think most people will tell you to retake, and depending on where you want to practice and what you want to do, that may be your best route. But if you have to pick from these, I would go with LLS or Pepperdine.

[splitsplat]

I'm not 100% on this, but I think Irvine caps need based aid at 5k/year

[anonymouse2828]

does UCI still have the 3-yr subsidy scholarship in place? I know first class got 100%, second class got 50%, and last year's class for 33% for all 3 years. You should factor that into the equation if it still exists.

Else, be sure to read the stipulations of the scholarships, getting into top 15%, top 33%, etc, is not easy, and you should NOT depend on that to fund your tuition. Especially since 1L's who drop out are not included in the rankings... for example, if you need top 33%, bottom 15% gets kicked out, and 5% transfer, then you need to be in the top 33% of the remaining 80%. In other words, top ~26.4%.

I also wouldn't worry about UCI's accreditation. First 2-3 years they attracted top quality HYS-level students. Most would probably not have a problem passing the CA Bar, which is the limiting factor for most schools. That being said, there's also no alumni network to tap either.

[splitsplat]

does UCI still have the 3-yr subsidy scholarship in place? I know first class got 100%, second class got 50%, and last year's class for 33% for all 3 years. You should factor that into the equation if it still exists.

How would this have any bearing on a future student?

Else, be sure to read the stipulations of the scholarships, getting into top 15%, top 33%, etc, is not easy, and you should NOT depend on that to fund your tuition. Especially since 1L's who drop out are not included in the rankings... for example, if you need top 33%, bottom 15% gets kicked out, and 5% transfer, then you need to be in the top 33% of the remaining 80%. In other words, top ~26.4%.

UC merit aid only requires a 2.0 (C average)

I also wouldn't worry about UCI's accreditation. First 2-3 years they attracted top quality HYS-level students. Most would probably not have a problem passing the CA Bar, which is the limiting factor for most schools. That being said, there's also no alumni network to tap either.

LOL @ HYS level students.

[anonymouse2828]

does UCI still have the 3-yr subsidy scholarship in place? I know first class got 100%, second class got 50%, and last year's class for 33% for all 3 years. You should factor that into the equation if it still exists.

How would this have any bearing on a future student?

I said if it still exists. I'm not sure if they're still offering anything for the next class, or if all the money is gone already.

Else, be sure to read the stipulations of the scholarships, getting into top 15%, top 33%, etc, is not easy, and you should NOT depend on that to fund your tuition. Especially since 1L's who drop out are not included in the rankings... for example, if you need top 33%, bottom 15% gets kicked out, and 5% transfer, then you need to be in the top 33% of the remaining 80%. In other words, top ~26.4%.

UC merit aid only requires a 2.0 (C average)

$500 merit aid is still aid... besides, I was referring to OP's pepperdine offer which stipulated top 1/3 to retain.

I also wouldn't worry about UCI's accreditation. First 2-3 years they attracted top quality HYS-level students. Most would probably not have a problem passing the CA Bar, which is the limiting factor for most schools. That being said, there's also no alumni network to tap either.

LOL @ HYS level students.

Although I haven't verified this in person, it was reported that some students in UCI's fist year class turned down sticker-price admission at H to go to UCI. Maybe I'm wrong, hell, it's likely that I'm wrong... after looking at the stats for class of 2012, but still, the quality of students are definitely upper T1, and I'm sure they're pushing really hard to ensure a high BAR passage rate, since a failure to become accredited will pretty much mean death to the school.

[GueritaPeloChino]

2L at LLS here.

I didn't apply to UCI, but I had a similar scholarship offer at Davis, and ~$30k offers from LLS and Pepperdine (top 1/3 stip). I ended up going with LLS, and I couldn't be happier.

Given the range of schools you are looking at, I think it would be naive to say that UCI at sticker or Davis w/ a small scholarship will be more valuable, long term, than taking a large scholarship.

I think most people will tell you to retake, and depending on where you want to practice and what you want to do, that may be your best route. But if you have to pick from these, I would go with LLS or Pepperdine.

I was actually up to 24k from UC Davis as they offered 10k renewable on top of the grant money. I decided not to attend, however, because I'd rather be in SoCal. Also, if i stay here I have no housing costs to worry about, which I think is a huge plus.

Thanks a lot for your input. If I'm not offered a good amount of money from Irvine, I think 75k from Pepperdine will be the best way to go. The stip for Pepperdine is "good academic standing" (maintaining a 2.0 or above), which isn't bad at all. I contacted admissions and they said last year only 4% of the 1l class went below a 2.0.

[GueritaPeloChino]

I'm not 100% on this, but I think Irvine caps need based aid at 5k/year

Ouch. I hope that's not the case.

[bingbang1025]

UCI at sticker is financial suicide. Especially considering that there'll be tuition hikes every year (as is every UC). Paying close to sticker for a new school is incredibly risky. It would be incredibly risky to go to USC or UCLA at sticker...at UCI, not even a consideration without at least $20k/year.

Retake.

[partyrock]

2L at LLS here.

I didn't apply to UCI, but I had a similar scholarship offer at Davis, and ~$30k offers from LLS and Pepperdine (top 1/3 stip). I ended up going with LLS, and I couldn't be happier.

Given the range of schools you are looking at, I think it would be naive to say that UCI at sticker or Davis w/ a small scholarship will be more valuable, long term, than taking a large scholarship.

I think most people will tell you to retake, and depending on where you want to practice and what you want to do, that may be your best route. But if you have to pick from these, I would go with LLS or Pepperdine.

I was actually up to 24k from UC Davis as they offered 10k renewable on top of the grant money. I decided not to attend, however, because I'd rather be in SoCal. Also, if i stay here I have no housing costs to worry about, which I think is a huge plus.

Thanks a lot for your input. If I'm not offered a good amount of money from Irvine, I think 75k from Pepperdine will be the best way to go. The stip for Pepperdine is "good academic standing" (maintaining a 2.0 or above), which isn't bad at all. I contacted admissions and they said last year only 4% of the 1l class went below a 2.0.

Yeah thats much better than the stipulations they (both Loyola and Pepperdine) were putting on scholarships last year. It just adds another layer of stress to 1L that you don't need. I'm from SoCal, and I was very close to picking Perpperdine, its a beautiful campus and everyone was very friendly.

[Doorkeeper]

What's total cost of attendance for all three schools?

Loyola is out unless you get a significant scholarship.

Irvine is indeed interesting (small classes, good faculty, etc), but considering how unproven it is it's not worth it unless you get a scholarship.

Honestly, your best option was Davis with the 24k. Now you need to bargain money out of Irvine to make it worth it.

[Yukos]

Yeah thats much better than the stipulations they (both Loyola and Pepperdine) were putting on scholarships last year. It just adds another layer of stress to 1L that you don't need. I'm from SoCal, and I was very close to picking Perpperdine, its a beautiful campus and everyone was very friendly.

This is all credited. Pepperdine is the most beautiful campus I've ever seen, and I'm sure the people there are very friendly.

But those aren't reasons to go to a certain law school.

Retake.

[splitsplat]

I also wouldn't worry about UCI's accreditation. First 2-3 years they attracted top quality HYS-level students. Most would probably not have a problem passing the CA Bar, which is the limiting factor for most schools. That being said, there's also no alumni network to tap either.

LOL @ HYS level students.

Although I haven't verified this in person, it was reported that some students in UCI's fist year class turned down sticker-price admission at H to go to UCI. Maybe I'm wrong, hell, it's likely that I'm wrong... after looking at the stats for class of 2012, but still, the quality of students are definitely upper T1, and I'm sure they're pushing really hard to ensure a high BAR passage rate, since a failure to become accredited will pretty much mean death to the school.

http://www.law.uci.edu/prospective/consumer_info.html

Is it possible that a few students in the inaugural class might have been able to pull Harvard acceptances... maybe. But I would be seriously shocked if any UCI students turned down Yale or Stanford for UCI. That being said, there is a big gap between HYS and "upper TI" and no one here is arguing that UCI will rank lower than T1.

[Huskar]

Just got in off the waitlist at UC Irvine and I'm going over my options. UC Davis was giving me 14k in grant money so I'm guessing UCI will be around the same amount. However, they are saying their merit aid is completely gone at this point =/

At Pepperdine i'm up to 25k/year renewable.

I'm only still considering Loyola in case they might make me an offer at the last minute....

I am attracted to UC Irvine's small class size, their highly-regarded faculty, and I'm overall pretty impressed. I still feel it's a gamble though since it's still unranked and all...

aren't they basically peer schools picking up slacks after UCLA/USC in socal? i say retake and reapply next year, but given those 3 options, take the money

[GueritaPeloChino]

What's total cost of attendance for all three schools?

Loyola is out unless you get a significant scholarship.

Irvine is indeed interesting (small classes, good faculty, etc), but considering how unproven it is it's not worth it unless you get a scholarship.

Honestly, your best option was Davis with the 24k. Now you need to bargain money out of Irvine to make it worth it.

I have no housing costs so my COA at each is pretty much as follows:

Pepperdine= 60k
Loyola= 135k
Irvine= I won't know until the person in charge of Financial Aid comes back next week.


I'm considering UC Irvine because of all the great things I've heard of their first graduating class. 12 judicial clerkships out of 60 students sounds pretty neat. I've also read that since they don't have alumni network, the faculty are the ones trying to open doors for them. It makes sense that they will try extra hard to find their graduates jobs as they're trying to be top-20 and all. I definitely feel I will receive a tremendous amount of support. At sticker I don't think it's worth it to take the risk. But at the same discount as Pepperdine, I think it will be worth a serious consideration.

[justonemoregame]

If your COA = total debt at graduation then pick your favorite of Pepp / Irvine

[Dreas]

.

[top30man]

If your COA = total debt at graduation then pick your favorite of Pepp / Irvine

Yeah this. If irvine stays at or near sticker, its definitely pepp. That being said, the real answer is retake.

[ikle]

uci does in fact unfortunately cap their need base aid at 5k/year. Although attending UCI at basically sticker price is pretty hard to justify, if I for some reason had to choose between your 3 options, I'd still pick UCI.

[GueritaPeloChino]

uci does in fact unfortunately cap their need base aid at 5k/year. Although attending UCI at basically sticker price is pretty hard to justify, if I for some reason had to choose between your 3 options, I'd still pick UCI.

Really, even with the scholarship offers from Pepperdine (75k) and Loyola (54k), I am still leaning towards going to UCI. After visiting and realizing all it has to offer, idk they got me =/ . I'm on TLS again so someone can talk some sense into me. In my head I reason that my family can pay for it, or even if they are upset at me for not taking the least expensive route, as long as they help me out with half, I'll be pleased. I can't see myself thriving at either Pepp or LLS, as much as I can see myself thriving at Irvine. For one thing, the small entering class size (<120) and faculty-student ratio. For second, they are dependent on their students for rankings so i'm sure the institutional backing will be there when it comes time to find employment.

[Paul Campos]

uci does in fact unfortunately cap their need base aid at 5k/year. Although attending UCI at basically sticker price is pretty hard to justify, if I for some reason had to choose between your 3 options, I'd still pick UCI.

Really, even with the scholarship offers from Pepperdine (75k) and Loyola (54k), I am still leaning towards going to UCI. After visiting and realizing all it has to offer, idk they got me =/ . I'm on TLS again so someone can talk some sense into me. In my head I reason that my family can pay for it, or even if they are upset at me for not taking the least expensive route, as long as they help me out with half, I'll be pleased. I can't see myself thriving at either Pepp or LLS, as much as I can see myself thriving at Irvine. For one thing, the small entering class size (<120) and faculty-student ratio. For second, they are dependent on their students for rankings so i'm sure the institutional backing will be there when it comes time to find employment.

Numbers: UCI in-state is $47K this year, and it's likely to go up in your second and third years. You'll probably pay around $150K total in tuition. Throw in another $8K for books and bar review. Now add interest and you're around $185K six months after graduation. (This is assuming you have no living expenses).

This is for a school with no alumni network, a lefty faculty in a very right-wing area of SoCal, and a terrible local legal market.

[bankruptedcasino]

I am here to try and talk sense into you. UCI/Pepperdine/LLS are all similarly regarded in the legal communities in southern California. While UCI isn't ranked, it is considered relatively equal with Pepperdine and LLS though some attorneys hold it in less regard.

Southern California's legal market is complete and utter poo. It's a mess, shambles, devoid of all hope and optimism. 3Ls from UCLA and USC are having trouble finding work at respectable firms if they are not at the top of their class/on law review/related to a senior partner at a firm like O'Melveny and Myers/related to a federal judge.

I do not think that you shouldn't go to law school. Far from it. I'm one of those TLSer's that believe that if you are going to go to a school that is not the top-ranked school in your geographic area, then you should go to the school that costs the least. Pepperdine and LLS are very pricey, but your schollys make it manageable. UCI will cost about as much as going to Pepperdine and LLS at full sticker. Very risky gamble.

In the end, do what you think is best for you. But ask yourself: 10 years after graduation, if you only graduate at median at UCI (can't expect anything more as a 0L) and struggle to find work for a couple years after you take the bar, only to find yourself employed as an in-house counsel at a debt collection agency ... will you be so enamored with UCI's small class size and faculty-student ratio? Put another way, when you can't buy a house until you're in your 50s because your debt is too high and the cost of a house in southern California is so prohibitively expensive, will you be grateful that you spent 3 years at a school you thought you could thrive at?

I dunno, maybe your parents will pay for the whole thing in which case ... game on. But if they don't, you might be wise to ask them to pay for all/half of a very reduced bill at Pepperdine or LLS.

[GueritaPeloChino]

uci does in fact unfortunately cap their need base aid at 5k/year. Although attending UCI at basically sticker price is pretty hard to justify, if I for some reason had to choose between your 3 options, I'd still pick UCI.

Really, even with the scholarship offers from Pepperdine (75k) and Loyola (54k), I am still leaning towards going to UCI. After visiting and realizing all it has to offer, idk they got me =/ . I'm on TLS again so someone can talk some sense into me. In my head I reason that my family can pay for it, or even if they are upset at me for not taking the least expensive route, as long as they help me out with half, I'll be pleased. I can't see myself thriving at either Pepp or LLS, as much as I can see myself thriving at Irvine. For one thing, the small entering class size (<120) and faculty-student ratio. For second, they are dependent on their students for rankings so i'm sure the institutional backing will be there when it comes time to find employment.

Numbers: UCI in-state is $47K this year, and it's likely to go up in your second and third years. You'll probably pay around $150K total in tuition. Throw in another $8K for books and bar review. Now add interest and you're around $185K six months after graduation. (This is assuming you have no living expenses).

This is for a school with no alumni network, a lefty faculty in a very right-wing area of SoCal, and a terrible local legal market.

I was surprised tuition for UCI Law actually went down this year- it's $42k.

I guess reading all those great things about their first graduating class really put my hopes up. I couldn't accept the scholly from Davis because of family not supporting my moving out of SoCal, so I thought I could make up for the disappointment with another UC. I should be hearing from them early next regarding merit aid. Though, they made it clear it wouldn't be as good an offer as the ones from the other schools.