T-30 School Value Forum

[JetsFan1990]

This may exist elsewhere, but I thought it could be helpful to many people if there was a comprehensive list of what people would need (in terms of scholarship money) in order to justify attending each T30 school. Note: judging each school individually (not against other offers)

Mine:
T14 - sticker
UCLA - sticker
UT - 5k/year
Vandy - 5k/year
USC - 10k/year
Minn. - 25k/year
GW - 15k/year
U Washington - 25k/year
Notre Dame - 20k/year
WUSTL - 25k/year
Emory - 30k/year
W&L - 30k/year
Arizona - 35k/year
BU - 20k/year
Indiana U - 30k/year
BC - 20k/year
Fordham - 25k/year
Alabama - 35k/year
UC Davis - 35k/year
Iowa - 40k/year

[flem]

ok

[swimmer11]

I usually do not post and am reserved to lurking. However, isn't there a little more that usually goes into one's decision about where they attend lawl school? I doubt everyone just considers the dollars and senses (albeit there are some for sure).

[cinephile]

I usually do not post and am reserved to lurking. However, isn't there a little more that usually goes into one's decision about where they attend lawl school? I doubt everyone just considers the dollars and senses (albeit there are some for sure).

What else should a person consider other than cost and job prospects? Specialities are meaningless. Picking a school in a region where you'd want to be is an important thing to consider, though. That's about it.

[20130312]

This may exist elsewhere, but I thought it could be helpful to many people if there was a comprehensive list of what people would need (in terms of scholarship money) in order to justify attending each T30 school. Note: judging each school individually (not against other offers)

Mine:
T14 - sticker
UCLA - sticker
UT - 5k/year
Vandy - 5k/year
USC - 10k/year
Minn. - 25k/year
GW - 15k/year
U Washington - 25k/year
Notre Dame - 20k/year
WUSTL - 25k/year
Emory - 30k/year
W&L - 30k/year
Arizona - 35k/year
BU - 20k/year
Indiana U - 30k/year
BC - 20k/year
Fordham - 25k/year
Alabama - 35k/year
UC Davis - 35k/year
Iowa - 40k/year

Thank you for sharing your unsolicited opinion. Next?

[JetsFan1990]

This may exist elsewhere, but I thought it could be helpful to many people if there was a comprehensive list of what people would need (in terms of scholarship money) in order to justify attending each T30 school. Note: judging each school individually (not against other offers)

Mine:
T14 - sticker
UCLA - sticker
UT - 5k/year
Vandy - 5k/year
USC - 10k/year
Minn. - 25k/year
GW - 15k/year
U Washington - 25k/year
Notre Dame - 20k/year
WUSTL - 25k/year
Emory - 30k/year
W&L - 30k/year
Arizona - 35k/year
BU - 20k/year
Indiana U - 30k/year
BC - 20k/year
Fordham - 25k/year
Alabama - 35k/year
UC Davis - 35k/year
Iowa - 40k/year

Thank you for sharing your unsolicited opinion. Next?

I was asking for your opinion.

[Nova]

Assuming OOS tuition at the public schools? if so, I dont think UT at 45k a year is worth it. Especially when much of the class is paying under 30k.

[rickgrimes69]

This may exist elsewhere, but I thought it could be helpful to many people if there was a comprehensive list of what people would need (in terms of scholarship money) in order to justify attending each T30 school. Note: judging each school individually (not against other offers)

Mine:
T14 - sticker
UCLA - sticker
UT - 5k/year
Vandy - 5k/year
USC - 10k/year
Minn. - 25k/year
GW - 15k/year
U Washington - 25k/year
Notre Dame - 20k/year
WUSTL - 25k/year
Emory - 30k/year
W&L - 30k/year
Arizona - 35k/year
BU - 20k/year
Indiana U - 30k/year
BC - 20k/year
Fordham - 25k/year
Alabama - 35k/year
UC Davis - 35k/year
Iowa - 40k/year

Thank you for sharing your unsolicited opinion. Next?

I was asking for your opinion.

My opinion is that you spent too much time on this list.

[JetsFan1990]

This may exist elsewhere, but I thought it could be helpful to many people if there was a comprehensive list of what people would need (in terms of scholarship money) in order to justify attending each T30 school. Note: judging each school individually (not against other offers)

Mine:
T14 - sticker
UCLA - sticker
UT - 5k/year
Vandy - 5k/year
USC - 10k/year
Minn. - 25k/year
GW - 15k/year
U Washington - 25k/year
Notre Dame - 20k/year
WUSTL - 25k/year
Emory - 30k/year
W&L - 30k/year
Arizona - 35k/year
BU - 20k/year
Indiana U - 30k/year
BC - 20k/year
Fordham - 25k/year
Alabama - 35k/year
UC Davis - 35k/year
Iowa - 40k/year

Thank you for sharing your unsolicited opinion. Next?

I was asking for your opinion.

My opinion is that you spent too much time on this list.

I spent about as much time on this list as you did finding a cool little avatar for your TLS account..

[doomed123]

lol @ UCLA being worth sticker... or UT and Vandy being worth what is practically sticker...

[flem]

lol @ UCLA being worth sticker... or UT and Vandy being worth what is practically sticker...

lol @ GeorgeTTTown being worth sticker

[JCFindley]

This may exist elsewhere, but I thought it could be helpful to many people if there was a comprehensive list of what people would need (in terms of scholarship money) in order to justify attending each T30 school. Note: judging each school individually (not against other offers)

Mine:
T14 - sticker
UCLA - sticker
UT - 5k/year
Vandy - 5k/year
USC - 10k/year
Minn. - 25k/year
GW - 15k/year
U Washington - 25k/year
Notre Dame - 20k/year
WUSTL - 25k/year
Emory - 30k/year
W&L - 30k/year
Arizona - 35k/year
BU - 20k/year
Indiana U - 30k/year
BC - 20k/year
Fordham - 25k/year
Alabama - 35k/year
UC Davis - 35k/year
Iowa - 40k/year

Thank you for sharing your unsolicited opinion. Next?

I was asking for your opinion.

HY-Sticker
S and B-Full Ride, stipend, you have to live in Cali for even three years 25K/yr signing bonus.
T4->T14 (-B) Full ride
UCLA - No way ever regardless of price
UT - Sticker plus cost of divorce proceedings since my wife won't live in TX
Vandy - full ride
USC - See UCLA
Minn. - full ride plus parka stipend
GW - full ride
U Washington - full ride
Notre Dame - full ride and contract written that I do NOT have to care one freak'n bit about the Irish in Football season
WUSTL - full ride
Emory - full ride
W&L - full ride and a full frame Canon 5D MkIII since the ONLY thing to do there is take pictures.
Arizona - full ride
BU - full ride
Indiana U - full ride
BC - full ride
Fordham - full ride
Alabama - Sticker plus divorce proceeding cost with a caveat that I get one year dating some hot freshman coed that needs a fling with a father figure AND they change the name of the school to That Other School in Alabama that isn't Aubun"
UC Davis - See UCLA/USC
Iowa - full ride

[JetsFan1990]

Forgive my naivety.. I am simply a T20 plebeian unfit to grace your message boards with my unsolicited opinions. After all, what kind of idiot thinks a site like this is for opinions anyway??

[JetsFan1990]

This may exist elsewhere, but I thought it could be helpful to many people if there was a comprehensive list of what people would need (in terms of scholarship money) in order to justify attending each T30 school. Note: judging each school individually (not against other offers)

Mine:
T14 - sticker
UCLA - sticker
UT - 5k/year
Vandy - 5k/year
USC - 10k/year
Minn. - 25k/year
GW - 15k/year
U Washington - 25k/year
Notre Dame - 20k/year
WUSTL - 25k/year
Emory - 30k/year
W&L - 30k/year
Arizona - 35k/year
BU - 20k/year
Indiana U - 30k/year
BC - 20k/year
Fordham - 25k/year
Alabama - 35k/year
UC Davis - 35k/year
Iowa - 40k/year

Thank you for sharing your unsolicited opinion. Next?

I was asking for your opinion.

HY-Sticker
S and B-Full Ride, stipend, you have to live in Cali for even three years 25K/yr signing bonus.
T4->T14 (-B) Full ride
UCLA - No way ever regardless of price
UT - Sticker plus cost of divorce proceedings since my wife won't live in TX
Vandy - full ride
USC - See UCLA
Minn. - full ride plus parka stipend
GW - full ride
U Washington - full ride
Notre Dame - full ride and contract written that I do NOT have to care one freak'n bit about the Irish in Football season
WUSTL - full ride
Emory - full ride
W&L - full ride and a full frame Canon 5D MkIII since the ONLY thing to do there is take pictures.
Arizona - full ride
BU - full ride
Indiana U - full ride
BC - full ride
Fordham - full ride
Alabama - Sticker plus divorce proceeding cost with a caveat that I get one year dating some hot freshman coed that needs a fling with a father figure AND they change the name of the school to That Other School in Alabama that isn't Aubun"
UC Davis - See UCLA/USC
Iowa - full ride

hahahah JC, thank you. At least if someone is going be a dick, they're funny too.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Forgive my naivety.. I am simply a T20 plebeian unfit to grace your message boards with my unsolicited opinions. After all, what kind of idiot thinks a site like this is for opinions anyway??

Ooooh, oooh, insult me next!

[flem]

Forgive my naivety.. I am simply a T20 plebeian unfit to grace your message boards with my unsolicited opinions. After all, what kind of idiot thinks a site like this is for opinions anyway??

It looks like you just scaled scholarships up as rankings went down, which is dumb and un-insightful.

[Robespierre]

This may exist elsewhere, but I thought it could be helpful to many people if there was a comprehensive list of what people would need (in terms of scholarship money) in order to justify attending each T30 school. Note: judging each school individually (not against other offers)

Mine:
T14 - sticker
UCLA - sticker
UT - 5k/year
Vandy - 5k/year
USC - 10k/year
Minn. - 25k/year
GW - 15k/year
U Washington - 25k/year
Notre Dame - 20k/year
WUSTL - 25k/year
Emory - 30k/year
W&L - 30k/year
Arizona - 35k/year
BU - 20k/year
Indiana U - 30k/year
BC - 20k/year
Fordham - 25k/year
Alabama - 35k/year
UC Davis - 35k/year
Iowa - 40k/year

You're generally on the right track, but it depends totally on the person's geographical preferences and how much of the cost he is debt-financing.

[doomed123]

lol @ UCLA being worth sticker... or UT and Vandy being worth what is practically sticker...

lol @ GeorgeTTTown being worth sticker

That too.

[rickgrimes69]

Minn. - full ride plus parka stipend

I fucking lol'd.

Reminded of that thread from the disillusioned UMN student who claimed the orientation involved multiple talks about remembering to wear hats and bundle up.

[Elston Gunn]

I'll try to answer you seriously. There's no bright line point where a school immediately becomes "worth it," but I would say in general you're willing to pay too much for schools with shiny rankings numbers. GULC and UCLA are definitely not worth sticker, nor are Vandy, UT or USC worth what you'd pay (also, why would you pay 30K more for UCLA than USC, when USC has the same/better employment stats?). I also think BU and BC both have better employment numbers than GW, for example, but you're willing to pay 15K + probably higher COL for that school because it's ranked higher.

Also, how much you should pay is heavily dependent on where you're from/where you want to end up. I, a native northeasterner who wants to stay here, wouldn't even consider IU-B with a full-ride, since IU-B students are basically praying to get lucky enough to get a job in Indy. But if you were from there, 25-30K sounds about right.

Finally, pure scholly numbers aren't really relevant. What matters is COA. How much is (Tuition + COL - scholarships)? That's the relevant question.

[JetsFan1990]

I'll try to answer you seriously. There's no bright line point where a school immediately becomes "worth it," but I would say in general you're willing to pay too much for schools with shiny rankings numbers. GULC and UCLA are definitely not worth sticker, nor are Vandy, UT or USC worth what you'd pay (also, why would you pay 30K more for UCLA than USC, when USC has the same/better employment stats?). I also think BU and BC both have better employment numbers than GW, for example, but you're willing to pay 15K + probably higher COL for that school because it's ranked higher.

Also, how much you should pay is heavily dependent on where you're from/where you want to end up. I, a native northeasterner who wants to stay here, wouldn't even consider IU-B with a full-ride, since IU-B students are basically praying to get lucky enough to get a job in Indy. But if you were from there, 25-30K sounds about right.

Finally, pure scholly numbers aren't really relevant. What matters is COA. How much is (Tuition + COL - scholarships)? That's the relevant question.

Thank you for your serious response. I have another question that is pretty relevant to this thread I guess. Do you think the NLJ 250 "go-to schools" is a better indicator of school rank, value, etc. than USNWR? I mean, realistically, everyone is gunning for those jobs anyway. Shouldn't the schools that place more students into those firms be held in higher regard than those that don't?

[flem]

Thank you for your serious response. I have another question that is pretty relevant to this thread I guess. Do you think the NLJ 250 "go-to schools" is a better indicator of school rank, value, etc. than USNWR? I mean, realistically, everyone is gunning for those jobs anyway. Shouldn't the schools that place more students into those firms be held in higher regard than those that don't?

Sort of, though the NLJ250 only takes into account size - there are legit boutiques, smaller firms that pay market in smaller cities, etc that the NLJ250 misses. There's also some TTT firms on the NLJ250 (eg, Morgan & Morgan)

[rad lulz]

I'll try to answer you seriously. There's no bright line point where a school immediately becomes "worth it," but I would say in general you're willing to pay too much for schools with shiny rankings numbers. GULC and UCLA are definitely not worth sticker, nor are Vandy, UT or USC worth what you'd pay (also, why would you pay 30K more for UCLA than USC, when USC has the same/better employment stats?). I also think BU and BC both have better employment numbers than GW, for example, but you're willing to pay 15K + probably higher COL for that school because it's ranked higher.

Also, how much you should pay is heavily dependent on where you're from/where you want to end up. I, a native northeasterner who wants to stay here, wouldn't even consider IU-B with a full-ride, since IU-B students are basically praying to get lucky enough to get a job in Indy. But if you were from there, 25-30K sounds about right.

Finally, pure scholly numbers aren't really relevant. What matters is COA. How much is (Tuition + COL - scholarships)? That's the relevant question.

Thank you for your serious response. I have another question that is pretty relevant to this thread I guess. Do you think the NLJ 250 "go-to schools" is a better indicator of school rank, value, etc. than USNWR? I mean, realistically, everyone is gunning for those jobs anyway. Shouldn't the schools that place more students into those firms be held in higher regard than those that don't?

Your assumption is that the USNWR accurately measures what schools are held in higher regard relative to one another.

[Elston Gunn]

Thank you for your serious response. I have another question that is pretty relevant to this thread I guess. Do you think the NLJ 250 "go-to schools" is a better indicator of school rank, value, etc. than USNWR? I mean, realistically, everyone is gunning for those jobs anyway. Shouldn't the schools that place more students into those firms be held in higher regard than those that don't?

Sort of, though the NLJ250 only takes into account size - there are legit boutiques, smaller firms that pay market in smaller cities, etc that the NLJ250 misses. There's also some TTT firms on the NLJ250 (eg, Morgan & Morgan)

+ AIII clerkship numbers aren't included. Also the numbers fluctuate very widely from year to year, so you can't just rely on one year's data. I think your best bet is to find Rayiner's employment and unemployment threads. Those are pretty close to the best we can do on assessing employment prospects.

[Pate]

Here is the trick to making a T30 law school worth the value. . . it is harder than it seems. The tricky part ― secure an SA position that pays good $$. This is achievable even before your first exam grade is released. Once you are IN the odds are very much in your favor of securing an offer. At that point, the importance of grades are neutralized (although poor grades could cause you to stress). I blew my BL V-10 SA interview but two friends made it through, and even though their grades are pedestrian, they are golden. If you want to avoid the hassle of OCI and grade anxiety. . . do everything you can to get an SA interview ― then bring the passion.