Rutgers FT vs. Fordham PT? Forum

[teacozy]

Cost of attendance at both would be ~$80k (maybe a teensy bit higher at Fordham). Rutgers offered me $10k + instate (3.0 stip), but I would have to quit my job to attend, which means I’d have to take out loans for COL. On the other hand, I’d be able to continue working while at Fordham and pay off part of my tuition as I go.

However, money really isn’t an issue since I have a property I’m planning on selling in a couple of years to pay off the loans. I’m more concerned about the academic environment and job prospects coming out of both schools. I don't want to be unemployable and I do not want to return to my current job, as it is slowly draining my will to live.

So, assuming I don’t perform like the superstar I know I am, where will I be better off? Is median at Rutgers significantly worse than median at Fordham? Or vice versa? Also, in the worst case-scenario that the condo I’m planning on selling spontaneously combusts or gets demolished by a tornado in the next two years, which school would make that kind of debt payoff-able?

Special snowflake details: I’d like to do PI. I have no interest in biglaw, and I’ll be 40 when I graduate, so I doubt it would be an option for me even if I did. NY would be preferable to NJ but I’d be okay with NJ, too.

The only reason I’m dithering is that Rutgers gave me warm fuzzies whereas Fordham didn’t, which I realize is kind of crazy. I didn’t hate Fordham or anything, and I think I could be happy there, but Rutgers was like the law school equivalent of little Care Bears floating on clouds.

What would you do if you were me?

[JCFindley]

Cost of attendance at both would be ~$80k (maybe a teensy bit higher at Fordham). Rutgers offered me $10k + instate (3.0 stip), but I would have to quit my job to attend, which means I’d have to take out loans for COL. On the other hand, I’d be able to continue working while at Fordham and pay off part of my tuition as I go.

However, money really isn’t an issue since I have a property I’m planning on selling in a couple of years to pay off the loans. I’m more concerned about the academic environment and job prospects coming out of both schools. I don't want to be unemployable and I do not want to return to my current job, as it is slowly draining my will to live.

So, assuming I don’t perform like the superstar I know I am, where will I be better off? Is median at Rutgers significantly worse than median at Fordham? Or vice versa? Also, in the worst case-scenario that the condo I’m planning on selling spontaneously combusts or gets demolished by a tornado in the next two years, which school would make that kind of debt payoff-able?

Special snowflake details: I’d like to do PI. I have no interest in biglaw, and I’ll be 40 when I graduate, so I doubt it would be an option for me even if I did. NY would be preferable to NJ but I’d be okay with NJ, too.

The only reason I’m dithering is that Rutgers gave me warm fuzzies whereas Fordham didn’t, which I realize is kind of crazy. I didn’t hate Fordham or anything, and I think I could be happy there, but Rutgers was like the law school equivalent of little Care Bears floating on clouds.

What would you do if you were me?

Basically, I am you. I was accepted at both and CoA for both schools is the same for me and I would graduate with little or no debt from either (But for different reasons from you.)

I looked into both schools extensively and for me I felt Fordham gave me a better shot at a job though with PI you are really in pretty good shape in either. (Assumes you include DA/PD/State and local Clerkships as PI) And while we may be too old for big law I would at least like the option to try if I change my mind about PI.

I got the big warm fuzzy Carebear thing from Fordham though. Every interaction I have had with the school has reinforced the choice is right for me. They do have a LOT of good opportunities to gain PI experience as a student as well. (There may be at Rutgers as well, I really didn't get far enough into the RU research to visit as I was happy with Fordham.

To be honest, I REALLY like my choice with Fordham but I don't think you would go wrong either way so long as you are OK with living in NJ going to Rutgers. I think you will be better off at median @ Fordham but would have to dig up the numbers to back that up. The alumini network is outstanding at Fordham. I have seen examples for myself. I have heard it is great at Rutgers too though.

Best of luck and see you at Fordham if you decide that direction.

[Wily]

Where are the in-between schools? Cardozo/Brooklyn/Seton Hall with lots of money?

[JCFindley]

Where are the in-between schools? Cardozo/Brooklyn/Seton Hall with lots of money?

Rutgers = SH in job prospects at HALF the cost so they are peers with the edge going to Rutgers because of cost.

IMHO RU-N > Brooklyn and Dozo so long as you like NJ. My reasoning is that Brooklyn and Dozo are getting pretty far down the food chain in NYC where as SH and RU ARE the food chain in NJ. RU tends to rank lower in USN because of how they do their admissions in that they care about more than just the numbers and it shows in their ranking. The school itself performs WAY above it's numbers within the state of NJ.

[teacozy]

I didn't even bother with SH/Brooklyn/Dozo for the reasons JCFindley laid out. Maybe that was a mistake, I don't know. But even now, I’m more comfortable with Fordham + debt than with any of those schools.

Thanks for your thoughts, JCFindley. The folks at Fordham are super helpful and nice and they really have made me feel welcome. Maybe one of the things I'm reacting to is the more overt focus on PI at RU-N. (For example, someone on another thread mentioned that they have a better LRAP… you know, just in case of emergency.) I realize that that focus is partly a result of the different job prospects grads have coming out of there vs. Fordham, but it really spoke to me.

Anyway, that’s a good point about the job prospects should I decide not to do PI.

[ru2486]

Teacozy, do you have NJ or NY ties?

[teacozy]

Weak NY ties, which is another thing I'm worried about with Rutgers. How insular is New Jersey?

ETA: To clarify, I have quite a few friends and former coworkers in New Jersey, so I do have a (small) social network. I've also spent some time there, but I'm pretty much just rolling into town for school.

[JCFindley]

Great question RU....

Keep in mind I am an OL as well so what I type is strictly what I have researched for myself.

NYC is not really parochial so you don't need ties. They know why you want NYC. NJ is far more concerned with them than NYC so it would be good to have them.

That said, PI, specifically DA/PD type of PI seems more concerned about ties to Public interest than necessarily to the area and that includes NYC PI. (I don't know about NJ and if they would like to see both or not.) Reading about this indicates that these kind of ties can be established by prior WE OR interning/externing heavily in PI. I know Fordham has opportunities for the intern/extern thing and would imagine RU would as well. Perhaps call a few places in Jersey where you would be interested in working and ask what they think. Couldn't hurt and good give you a much better perspective than a fellow 0L like yourself can.

JC

[get it to x]

Recent RU grad. I'm always keen on answering any questions you may have.

[dingbat]

The Care Bears are trying to trick you! Don't follow the Care Bears - they eat magic unicorns!

Seriously, though, I vaguely recall that Fordham at median is better than Rutgers at median but I don't have numbers to back that up and have not looked at Fordham since before 2010 and 2011 numbers were available. I'm all for biglaw and that is one area Fordham excels at.

The more important thing is that you would rather be in NY than NJ. From talking to lawyers (and a judge) in NJ, Fordham has a good reputation in the state and is unlikely to do any worse than Rutgers. I'm not so sure the same is true other way around, so that while both seem to be about the same in north Jersey (not sure about middle and south) Fordham has a better name in the city, where Rutgers is more on par with Brooklyn or Dozo.
If your goal were Jersey, then Rutgers helps with regards to ties and showing a sincere interest here. But, as your goal is NY, you're better off at Fordham.
(on the other hand, you'll finish sooner going to Rutgers FT, so that should also be taken into consideration)

[teacozy]

Those unicorns always looked shifty. Had it coming, I say.

I can't deny that part of the appeal of Rutgers is that I would have to quit my job and could finish earlier. But I really would prefer NY at this point in my life, so it sounds like, overall, Fordham would probably be a better fit for my goals. It's just. Care Bears! Fluffy clouds! *sigh*

Thanks for the offer, get it to x. I'd like to know, if possible, what your favorite and least favorite aspects of the school were. And can you talk a little bit about the academic environment? It seemed like a really friendly, incredibly diverse place when I visited, but was that just a facade? Are all those students waiting to trip me in the hall and steal my backpack? Finally, do you have any thoughts on just how insular NJ is for someone who has no real history in the state?