Going for a JD after a PharmD Forum

Shstyles89 · Post by **Shstyles89** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:58 pm

I've done my research reading the threads on this forum, and I can tell that 90% of you say not to go to a school like St. Johns for law because it is a royal waste of money and 3 years.

However, would it be worth it doing it with a PharmD degree? I have heard from people that pharmacist lawyers make ALOT of money, upwards of 170k per year doing patent stuff. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but due to family advice went the pharmacy route instead. It is a well paying job, 100k per year, kind of stressful, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to do Law. My GPA isn't good enough to get me into the top schools, but st johns is right around the corner from me and I might have a shot of getting into it.

What do you guys advise? Have you guys heard of the PharmD/JD degree like I have? (Albeit rarely)

Thanks.

glitter178 · Post by **glitter178** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:03 pm

I'm a rising 2L and one of the guys in my section has a PharmD... he got a 1L summer gig with a pharm company like he wanted. i should note that we go to a higher-ranked school than St. Johns, plus he did pretty well GPA-wise our first year.

Shstyles89 wrote:I've done my research reading the threads on this forum, and I can tell that 90% of you say not to go to a school like St. Johns for law because it is a royal waste of money and 3 years.

However, would it be worth it doing it with a PharmD degree? I have heard from people that pharmacist lawyers make ALOT of money, upwards of 170k per year doing patent stuff. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but due to family advice went the pharmacy route instead. It is a well paying job, 100k per year, kind of stressful, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to do Law. My GPA isn't good enough to get me into the top schools, but st johns is right around the corner from me and I might have a shot of getting into it.

What do you guys advise? Have you guys heard of the PharmD/JD degree like I have? (Albeit rarely)

Thanks.

rayiner · Post by **rayiner** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:12 pm

Shstyles89 wrote:I've done my research reading the threads on this forum, and I can tell that 90% of you say not to go to a school like St. Johns for law because it is a royal waste of money and 3 years.

However, would it be worth it doing it with a PharmD degree? I have heard from people that pharmacist lawyers make ALOT of money, upwards of 170k per year doing patent stuff. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but due to family advice went the pharmacy route instead. It is a well paying job, 100k per year, kind of stressful, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to do Law. My GPA isn't good enough to get me into the top schools, but st johns is right around the corner from me and I might have a shot of getting into it.

What do you guys advise? Have you guys heard of the PharmD/JD degree like I have? (Albeit rarely)

Thanks.

Nobody's GPA is bad enough to preclude them from going to a top school. Especially now that law school applications are down--the usual suspects (GULC, UVA, NU) are taking huge splitters again and even giving them scholarship money.

Basically, this thread is useless without at least a diagnostic LSAT score. I can say that while a PharmD will be a big help for IP, IP is getting more law school conscious than it used to be. Moreso than in other areas of the law, a lot of IP partners at big firms would not have gotten hired today if they were applying as fresh graduates.

Shstyles89 · Post by **Shstyles89** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:15 pm

Really? What is, then? LSAT score?

Tiago Splitter · Post by **Tiago Splitter** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:19 pm

Shstyles89 wrote:Really? What is, then? LSAT score?

LSAT is by far the most important part of the process. Get a 170+ and see what options become available.

rickgrimes69 · Post by **rickgrimes69** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:21 pm

Shstyles89 wrote:Really? What is, then? LSAT score?

Pretty much. There are some schools (most notably UVA and NU) who are very splitter friendly, meaning they'll overlook poor GPAs in lieu of a great LSAT. Check out some examples from the last cycle:

3.15 / 171 in at UVA
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/paulySch/jd

3.0 / 170 in at UVA
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/splittykitty/jd

3.15 / 173 in at UVA
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Gandalf205/jd

3.07 / 171 in at NU
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/splitsplat/jd

3.23 / 170 in at NU
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/flip001/jd

rayiner · Post by **rayiner** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:23 pm

Shstyles89 wrote:Really? What is, then? LSAT score?

Knowing someone's GPA is a 3.9 tells you nothing about the highest-ranked school they might get into. If that person has a merely average LSAT (= 151) they might not do any better than a third or fourth tier law school. Knowing that someone's LSAT is a 175 means that, almost regardless of GPA they're going to get into a top 25 law school. If that GPA is above a 3.0, many of the top 14 law schools are in play.

Teflon_Jeff · Post by **Teflon_Jeff** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:17 pm

OP: GPA is no limiter. Score well enough on the LSAT, and you can get into a proper law school.

I'm in at UMN with a 2.66 Undergrad. If you're GPA is even reasonably better, you have a shot at T-14 (specifically UVA and NU, as mentioned, but others are possible, depending on your GPA)

tl;dr version: Study hard, kill it on the LSAT, go to T-25 LS.

Shstyles89 · Post by **Shstyles89** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:48 pm

Teflon_Jeff wrote:OP: GPA is no limiter. Score well enough on the LSAT, and you can get into a proper law school.

I'm in at UMN with a 2.66 Undergrad. If you're GPA is even reasonably better, you have a shot at T-14 (specifically UVA and NU, as mentioned, but others are possible, depending on your GPA)

tl;dr version: Study hard, kill it on the LSAT, go to T-25 LS.

You have no idea what this has done to my outlook on law school. I was bummed out the past 2-3 days thinking it just couldn't happen for me. Thank you.

North · Post by **North** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:32 pm

What is your LSAC GPA, though? Use this: http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-co ... ulator.htm.

Teflon_Jeff · Post by **Teflon_Jeff** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:42 pm

Shstyles89 wrote:
Teflon_Jeff wrote:OP: GPA is no limiter. Score well enough on the LSAT, and you can get into a proper law school.

I'm in at UMN with a 2.66 Undergrad. If you're GPA is even reasonably better, you have a shot at T-14 (specifically UVA and NU, as mentioned, but others are possible, depending on your GPA)

tl;dr version: Study hard, kill it on the LSAT, go to T-25 LS.
You have no idea what this has done to my outlook on law school. I was bummed out the past 2-3 days thinking it just couldn't happen for me. Thank you.

The dream is alive!

Now, to be fair, I shotgun applied to almost 40 schools, but it was well worth it. You only need one to stick.

With this much advance planning (assuming you're applying next cycle) you can narrow the field a bit. But realistically, you should think of applying anywhere you're comfortable living/working.

If you have any questions, feel free to MSG me.

You can do it! [/Rob Schneider]

splitsplat · Post by **splitsplat** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:11 pm

Shstyles89 wrote:However, would it be worth it doing it with a PharmD degree? I have heard from people that pharmacist lawyers make ALOT of money, upwards of 170k per year doing patent stuff. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but due to family advice went the pharmacy route instead. It is a well paying job, 100k per year, kind of stressful, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to do Law. My GPA isn't good enough to get me into the top schools, but st johns is right around the corner from me and I might have a shot of getting into it.

Are you working retail pharmacy? If so, and you think it is already "kind of stressful" I would have to advise you to reconsider being an attorney. It might be stressful if you were doing clinical or research in a preftigious hospital setting but outside of that...

JamesChapman23 · Post by **JamesChapman23** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:07 pm

You are a lunatic if you thinking about leaving a great, low-stress 100k job for law school (six figure debt + extremely risky prospects). It's called "work" for a reason- it isn't a platform to express your creativity to the universe.

JamesChapman23 · Post by **JamesChapman23** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:07 pm

splitsplat wrote:
Shstyles89 wrote:However, would it be worth it doing it with a PharmD degree? I have heard from people that pharmacist lawyers make ALOT of money, upwards of 170k per year doing patent stuff. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but due to family advice went the pharmacy route instead. It is a well paying job, 100k per year, kind of stressful, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to do Law. My GPA isn't good enough to get me into the top schools, but st johns is right around the corner from me and I might have a shot of getting into it.
Are you working retail pharmacy? If so, and you think it is already "kind of stressful" I would have to advise you to reconsider being an attorney. It might be stressful if you were doing clinical or research in a preftigious hospital setting but outside of that...

Retail pharmacy is paradise compared to patent law. I never met someone in patent law that was happy with their work-life balance.

r6_philly · Post by **r6_philly** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:36 am

JamesChapman23 wrote:You are a lunatic if you thinking about leaving a great, low-stress 100k job for law school (six figure debt + extremely risky prospects). It's called "work" for a reason- it isn't a platform to express your creativity to the universe.

I was not pharma, but it's working out great for me. T10 law school helps, so I guess the school is the risky part, not going to law school in general.

JamesChapman23 · Post by **JamesChapman23** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:56 pm

r6_philly wrote:
JamesChapman23 wrote:You are a lunatic if you thinking about leaving a great, low-stress 100k job for law school (six figure debt + extremely risky prospects). It's called "work" for a reason- it isn't a platform to express your creativity to the universe.
I was not pharma, but it's working out great for me. T10 law school helps, so I guess the school is the risky part, not going to law school in general.

You left a secure, low-stress six figure job for six figure debt and a risky bet on law? And how is it working out for you? Just because you have an SA position doesn't mean it "worked out". The vast majority of people wash out or find they hate the work within a few years. Then you have to think about the golden handcuffs of 200k debt.

If that isn't your situation, these are not similar circumstances.

r6_philly · Post by **r6_philly** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:06 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote: You left a secure, low-stress six figure job for six figure debt and a risky bet on law? And how is it working out for you? Just because you have an SA position doesn't mean it "worked out". The vast majority of people wash out or find they hate the work within a few years. Then you have to think about the golden handcuffs of 200k debt.

If that isn't your situation, these are not similar circumstances.

Well since I have worked a long time to get to a good career position, I can assess the practice of law based on what I see as an SA. I will not hate the work within a few years - people with careers behind them tend to be better at projecting future path. I can also return to where I came from with relevant legal experience - so the several years spent in law (if I I do "washout") would contribute to my career advancement back in the original industry.

ajaxconstructions · Post by **ajaxconstructions** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:10 pm

r6_philly wrote:
JamesChapman23 wrote: You left a secure, low-stress six figure job for six figure debt and a risky bet on law? And how is it working out for you? Just because you have an SA position doesn't mean it "worked out". The vast majority of people wash out or find they hate the work within a few years. Then you have to think about the golden handcuffs of 200k debt.

If that isn't your situation, these are not similar circumstances.
Well since I have worked a long time to get to a good career position, I can assess the practice of law based on what I see as an SA. I will not hate the work within a few years - people with careers behind them tend to be better at projecting future path. I can also return to where I came from with relevant legal experience - so the several years spent in law (if I I do "washout") would contribute to my career advancement back in the original industry.

This all depends on getting a 2L SA job and an offer in the first place.

r6_philly · Post by **r6_philly** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Like I said, it's working out wonderfully.

rayiner · Post by **rayiner** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:22 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote:You left a secure, low-stress six figure job for six figure debt and a risky bet on law? And how is it working out for you? Just because you have an SA position doesn't mean it "worked out". The vast majority of people wash out or find they hate the work within a few years.

Citation needed. Just because people leave big law doesn't mean they leave the law.

Shstyles89 · Post by **Shstyles89** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:31 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote:
splitsplat wrote:
Shstyles89 wrote:However, would it be worth it doing it with a PharmD degree? I have heard from people that pharmacist lawyers make ALOT of money, upwards of 170k per year doing patent stuff. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but due to family advice went the pharmacy route instead. It is a well paying job, 100k per year, kind of stressful, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to do Law. My GPA isn't good enough to get me into the top schools, but st johns is right around the corner from me and I might have a shot of getting into it.
Are you working retail pharmacy? If so, and you think it is already "kind of stressful" I would have to advise you to reconsider being an attorney. It might be stressful if you were doing clinical or research in a preftigious hospital setting but outside of that...
Retail pharmacy is paradise compared to patent law. I never met someone in patent law that was happy with their work-life balance.

You don't understand how bad retail pharmacy actually is. Yes, you make anywhere from 52-57 dollars an hour, but the fact of the matter is there is absolutely NO shortage of pharmacists right now and they are ready to replace you at a moment's notice. The district managers treat you like shit, only care about numbers and financials, don't give you a break or even a stool to sit on. There are days where you NONSTOP are at it for 12 hours without a break. Running to leave to the bathroom and you come back and all hell broke loose with multiple patients at multiple workstations because the DM's don't adequately staff you with enough techs and other pharmacists. Lunch? You take a couple bites of a burger here and there. Not to mention the excruciating heel and knee pain you get after a week from standing so long. And then I haven't even gotten into the whole cascade of rude technicians, techs who suck at their job, techs who are lazy, which just adds more stress. On top of all of this, you must make sure your patients are getting the right medications and are being counseled on these medications while filling up to 700 prescriptions a day. You have to go through it to truly see how hellacious it is.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Trust me, there are hundreds of more things I can point out but do not feel like doing so.

I just feel that getting a JD in addition to a pharmD can open up more opportunities for me. Eventually I want to leave the shithole that is retail pharmacy. As I understand it, as a lawyer, you don't go through the stuff I listed up there. And besides everything else, I like the prospect of being a lawyer, I enjoy it from what I've read about the profession and want to be one.

ajaxconstructions · Post by **ajaxconstructions** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:34 pm

Oh no! You have to stand up while you work!

rayiner · Post by **rayiner** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:38 pm

ajaxconstructions wrote:Oh no! You have to stand up while you work!

There's a pretty big difference between a 12 hour day standing up dealing with customers and a 12 hour day grinding through a brief in your office with a door that closes.

rickgrimes69 · Post by **rickgrimes69** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:55 pm

Shstyles89 wrote:
JamesChapman23 wrote:
splitsplat wrote:
Shstyles89 wrote:However, would it be worth it doing it with a PharmD degree? I have heard from people that pharmacist lawyers make ALOT of money, upwards of 170k per year doing patent stuff. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but due to family advice went the pharmacy route instead. It is a well paying job, 100k per year, kind of stressful, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to do Law. My GPA isn't good enough to get me into the top schools, but st johns is right around the corner from me and I might have a shot of getting into it.
Are you working retail pharmacy? If so, and you think it is already "kind of stressful" I would have to advise you to reconsider being an attorney. It might be stressful if you were doing clinical or research in a preftigious hospital setting but outside of that...
Retail pharmacy is paradise compared to patent law. I never met someone in patent law that was happy with their work-life balance.

I just feel that getting a JD in addition to a pharmD can open up more opportunities for me. Eventually I want to leave the shithole that is retail pharmacy. As I understand it, as a lawyer, you don't go through the stuff I listed up there. And besides everything else, I like the prospect of being a lawyer, I enjoy it from what I've read about the profession and want to be one.

What you have read about being a lawyer and what they actually do are probably two very different things. Before you throw away a relatively low stress job (sorry but your sob story failed to impress - try working in a restaurant where you're also on your feet for 12 hours a day and tell me that pharmacy is worse), you might want to shadow a lawyer for awhile or work in a law firm to get an idea of what you're getting into.

ajaxconstructions · Post by **ajaxconstructions** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:47 am

rayiner wrote:
ajaxconstructions wrote:Oh no! You have to stand up while you work!
There's a pretty big difference between a 12 hour day standing up dealing with customers and a 12 hour day grinding through a brief in your office with a door that closes.

Just about all the jobs I held highschool through college required me to be on my feet all the time. And I wasn't getting paid $50/hour either.

Standing on your feet while working is about the worst sob story one could come up with. Even if you do work 10+ hours a day.

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