Penn vs. NYU at sticker Forum

[NJPitcher]

Well, a couple weeks ago I thought I was choosing between Vandy and NU, and now after the WLs have moved it looks like NYU and Penn are the new options.

I want to work in the northeast, somewhere between DC and Boston. Ideally, I clerk and then go biglaw, and I'd like it to be for the best firm possible. Duh. ABA from c/o 2011 scare me away from NYU a little, and Penn has been real strong in recent years, though a lot of NYU go PI/Gov which aren't in the biglaw numbers from ABA. I have family in northern Jersey that both schools are relatively close to, though NYU is closer by about 45 minutes. I've lived in Philly for the last two years and currently live there, and I have grown to really like the Penn area/Philly (especially since I can affordably live near the school), but I do have a decent network in NYC and a 20 minute ride to campus from brooklyn isn't terrible. I do like the smaller class size at Penn, but honestly it's not a huge factor as far as I can tell unless some current students have insights to the contrary.

No money at either (I'll ask Penn, but assuming I get the same response as NYU gave me), so Penn is about 12k cheaper after COL etc. according to the debt calculators.

Sorry this is scatterbrained, but I don't have long to decide and had basically decided on NYU after they let me in. What else should I be thinking about? How do LRAPs compare? Thanks all.

[CanadianWolf]

In your situation, it seems to come down to personal preference.

[Teflon_Jeff]

In your situation, it seems to come down to personal preference.

[Aberzombie1892]

I would personally choose Penn over NYU at sticker (even for for NYC), so a cheaper Penn would be a no brainer for me. If you add to that that you have ties to PA and you aren't 100% on NYC, and I believe that Penn is likely a no brainer for you.

[banjo]

Since there's no poll, Penn. You should look at previous years' stats too: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150004. Though I'm an 0L I've looked at probably all of the TLS debates on this topic, and I'm still not convinced that NYU's PI focus completely explains the placement gap or that NYU's advantage in elite firms outweighs lower placement overall. Also, Penn is a little cheaper in the end and you have your whole career to enjoy NYC.

ETA: I see the new poll, voted.

[justicefishy]

You're coming to Penn with me. I need more Swatties there

[NJPitcher]

Thanks for the insights all. Personal preference is the consensus at the moment I guess, as well as Swat love. Other thoughts? I'm curious what people think about the employment over the last 5 years? Penn seems to put out a higher % at large firms, but are these firms lower vault ranked etc. or are they comparable? Or am I splitting hairs?

I guess part of me is frustrated with NYU's relative lack of transparency, as Penn's data is real easy to interpret.

[Aberzombie1892]

Thanks for the insights all. Personal preference is the consensus at the moment I guess, as well as Swat love. Other thoughts? I'm curious what people think about the employment over the last 5 years? Penn seems to put out a higher % at large firms, but are these firms lower vault ranked etc. or are they comparable? Or am I splitting hairs?

I guess part of me is frustrated with NYU's relative lack of transparency, as Penn's data is real easy to interpret.

I see what you wrote, but I think your only hesitation is the US News rankings. If that is the case, which I assume it is, they mean nothing. I don't believe that NYU has ever bested Penn in NLJ firms. Ditto when you add firms and clerkships together.

Also, Vault rankings mean even less than the US News rankings.

[PennBull]

When it comes down to biglaw practice in NYC, Penn and NYU are a wash.

Pick the school you think you'd enjoy more. I don't know how NYU is, but you'd love Penn.

[chasgoose]

Thanks for the insights all. Personal preference is the consensus at the moment I guess, as well as Swat love. Other thoughts? I'm curious what people think about the employment over the last 5 years? Penn seems to put out a higher % at large firms, but are these firms lower vault ranked etc. or are they comparable? Or am I splitting hairs?

I guess part of me is frustrated with NYU's relative lack of transparency, as Penn's data is real easy to interpret.

Agree with everyone that this should come down to personal preference. As far as your question goes, based on info posted in TLS, Penn likely does a slightly better job at getting its students a big law job. NYU is slightly better, however, at getting students an "elite" big law job. Top firms seem to go deeper into NYU's class and take more students than they do from Penn even when you adjust for the differences in class size. If you do amazingly, it won't matter where you are. If you do poorly you are probably better off at Penn. If you are somewhere around the top third or top quarter, however, you are probably going to have a better shot at the elite firms (no guarantees) than you would at Penn.

[SaintsTheMetal]

If you do poorly you are probably better off at Penn.

agree with everything you said except that. There is a thread, I believe by Rayiner, that suggests that the people that miss the BigLaw at UPenn are very likely to end up in undesirable employment, part-time or non-legal or whatever. I don't believe there is NYU data on this at all, but still it didn't look good for the people that miss out on Biglaw at UPenn..probably the bottom third or so

[NJPitcher]

For those interested I went with Penn. Smaller class + recent placement + lower COL + liking Philly made it. As for the unemployment stats, here's Rayiner's graph:

Penn does better than NYU it seems - the school funded is scary at NYU, at least to me. Either way I have to work hard though, so that's the goal. Thanks for the input all.

[PennBull]

For those interested I went with Penn. Smaller class + recent placement + lower COL + liking Philly made it. As for the unemployment stats, here's Rayiner's graph: [img]graph[/img]

Penn does better than NYU it seems - the school funded is scary at NYU, at least to me. Either way I have to work hard though, so that's the goal. Thanks for the input all.

You made a great choice! Stop by the Penn Students Answering Questions thread if you need any advice.