Berkeley vs UCLA Forum

[005618502]

Peer schools...

no, just kidding. I'd probably take the money here though.

I'm assuming you aren't from California. It seems that everywhere, except California, people have the idea that UCB and UCLA are not peer, whereas here, most assume they are essentially the same, maybe UCB being a bit better. I'm a little confused by UCB's prestige; I can't find much reason to think that students there are any smarter, productive, or successful than UCLA students, and this goes for undergrad and grad programs. Stil, this is a hard decision since Berkeley is a much nicer place than UCLA.

Wow, I dont know if you are from CA now, or do you have your head in a hole? I grew up in CA and graduated from HS in SoCal and not a single person I met thought they were "the same" when someone said they were going to berk for college it was a "Holy shit this guy is smart" moment. If it was UCLA, it was more of a "o, cool"

That was stupid, I know, but seriously people in CA dont think that. Unless you are from a poor uneducated area

This is probably a stupid point to argue. But I want to address that you are referring to your high school friends. Go talk to any working professional. Berkeley raises an eyebrow because its more exclusive, not because it has smarter people.

What makes it more exclusive? The quality of applicants they accept.

Oh, P.S. I am currently a "working professional" and I still have that opinion. UCLA admission is not as impressive, its just a fact.

I got into UCLA and not Berkeley in hs lol

[005618502]

I've always wondered why people never consider the unlikely scenario of not getting big law coming out of Berkeley.

I'm sure some people don't. In the unlikely scenario that you happen to be one of those people, you'll be staring down a near $300k debt with little ways to repay it.

A scary prospect if you ask me.

That was stupid, I know, but seriously people in CA dont think that. Unless you are from a poor uneducated area

That's... entirely untrue. I think it has more to do with region. SoCal people believe UCLA to be on par with Berkeley, whereas it wouldn't make much sense to relocate from North Cal if you got into both. Depends on the major, really. But as far as lay prestige goes, UCB is only slightly above UCLA, at least for those living in SoCal.

Weird, I went to school in Mission Viejo, thats about as OC as it gets. And I never thought (nor did any of my friends) that UCLA was on par with Berkeley. I have also never been to NorCal (except for a LS visit). I guess I just knew much more than most about education rankings and quality in HS than most? I am not sure, but we thought very differently of colleges. And as my tiny previous post says, I got into UCLA and rejected from Berkeley. Decided to leave CA to play Lacrosse, at a even lower ranked school. But as someone else mentioned, UG doesnt mean shit if you go to grad school anyways.

Law schools are the same, UCB is way above UCLA. Lets not bring up "lay" opinion because no one gives a shit about that

[moneybagsphd]

Weird, I went to school in Mission Viejo, thats about as OC as it gets. And I never thought (nor did any of my friends) that UCLA was on par with Berkeley. I have also never been to NorCal (except for a LS visit). I guess I just knew much more than most about education rankings and quality in HS than most? I am not sure, but we thought very differently of colleges. And as my tiny previous post says, I got into UCLA and rejected from Berkeley. Decided to leave CA to play Lacrosse, at a even lower ranked school. But as someone else mentioned, UG doesnt mean shit if you go to grad school anyways.

Law schools are the same, UCB is way above UCLA. Lets not bring up "lay" opinion because no one gives a shit about that

In SoCal, UCLA has as much cachet as Berkeley... some idiots at my HS even regarded UCLA as better than Berkeley. I think overall Berkeley is slightly more prestigious (e.g. Engineering in general but EECS in particular, College of Chemistry, Haas, etc). It has something to do with being the flagship UC. I still think UCLA is prestigiou.

[ocajavati]

Law schools are the same, UCB is way above UCLA. Lets not bring up "lay" opinion because no one gives a shit about that

There's no argument here that UCB law is better than UCLA law.

In undergrad however, one could make a strong argument against relocation if one hails from SoCal. (outside of EECS, I suppose)

My point being that, there is honestly nothing wrong with a SoCal student going to UCLA, whereas going UCB, depending on major/circumstances, would still be a reasonable option

On the flip side, a NoCal student relocating to SoCal for UCLA, with an admission to UCB, would make little sense.

I honestly don't think it matters that much. All else equal, UCB beats out UCLA for LS, but, if one already lives in SoCal and is against relocation, taking UCLA with significantly less debt is perfectly reasonable as well, even for big law options.

[CoconutP]

I think I said earlier in the thread I am not that set on Big Law. Berkeley will certainly give more options in either Big Law, Government, or PI though...

[worldtraveler]

If you really don't know what you want to do, then there is only so much help people can give you. The career path for PI is entirely different than for big law.

Seriously, why do you want to be a lawyer? What do you think you want to do? A vague notion of what you want only works at a T10 with good grades and then you can walk right into big law (sometimes).

[FlightoftheEarls]

There's no argument here that UCB law is better than UCLA law.

This isn't a serious contribution to you two's discussion, but something I found interesting that is tangentially related to the topics of (1) quality of UG applicants vs. (2) quality of law schools:

Incoming Class GPAs (25/50/75):
Boalt: 3.62, 3.79, 3.88
UCLA: 3.55, 3.78, 3.88

Incoming Class LSATs (25/50/75):
Boalt: 164, 167, 169
UCLA: 164, 168, 169

I'm sure TLS has noticed this and already pointed it out somewhere, but I did find it a little interesting and didn't see mention of it in this thread. While it is highly unlikely that it will have any appreciable impact on the respective employment opportunities of the two schools in the near future, the difference in "quality" of enrolled law students between Boalt and UCLA seems to have nearly vanished in recent years.

Sources:
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/37.htm
http://www.law.ucla.edu/about-ucla-scho ... facts.aspx

[Voldemort]

ocajavati wrote:
There's no argument here that UCB law is better than UCLA law.

This isn't a serious contribution to you two's discussion, but something I found interesting that is tangentially related to the topics of (1) quality of UG applicants vs. (2) quality of law schools:

Incoming Class GPAs (25/50/75):
Boalt: 3.62, 3.79, 3.88
UCLA: 3.55, 3.78, 3.88

Incoming Class LSATs (25/50/75):
Boalt: 164, 167, 169
UCLA: 164, 168, 169

I'm sure TLS has noticed this and already pointed it out somewhere, but I did find it a little interesting and didn't see mention of it in this thread. While it is highly unlikely that it will have any appreciable impact on the respective employment opportunities of the two schools in the near future, the difference in "quality" of enrolled law students between Boalt and UCLA seems to have nearly vanished in recent years.

Sources:
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/37.htm
http://www.law.ucla.edu/about-ucla-scho ... facts.aspx

Isn't Berkeley big on favoring URM? I'm pretty sure the stats reflect Berkeley's willingness to admit much lower qualified applicants than the overall quality of the students; i.e, the good students that it gets more than make up for the students it admits with lower LSATs. You just wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the stats above. It is pretty crazy that Berkeley gives so little scholarships when UCLA gives so much. I'd say they are a bit too concerned with diversity.