Washington and Lee/ Cardozo/ Villanova Forum

[hob12]

All- I have made deposits at 3 schools, Villanova, Cardozo and Washington and Lee. I have until June first to make my final decision.

Background-
161 LSAT 3.66 GPA.
I am from NJ/ Philly area. I have lived in worked in DC for a period of time and I have family ties to the Northern VA, MD, DC area. I also have family ties to the NY city area.
I am interested in studying international law, but I understand there are not really jobs in that area. Therefore I would ideally be interested in going into the government, preferably federal in Washington DC. Ideally I would like to settle in DC in my future, but if I had to live in the NY or Philly area for a while it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Schools I've gotten into that are under consideration
Villanova- Full scholly, no stips, no debt
Washington and Lee- 15k/yr 3.1 Stip (something like top 70%), total debt from tuition- 82,275
Cardozo- 30k/yr scholly top 80%- debt- 52,000


I've been to both WL and Nova's open house. I really liked WL, the students were great, but it is very southern and in the middle of nowhere. I know it has the best placement in DC, but last year they had about 4 students go, but every other year including 2010 had more, so this might just have been a fluke. Many place in VA but I don't know how many are in the North. They had some level of placement in Maryland and NY too. That said, I enjoyed myself, and was impressed with their program.
Villanova had 11 go to the DC/MD VA, last year. Their ASW was less impressive, mostly because they were trying to deflect from the rankings. They also did not talk about career stats. That said, the second half of the day was better. Its close to home definitely in the middle of a much more populous place, I just don't know if I want to work in Philly.

I like the idea of living in NYC while I'm young so I've always found Cardozo's location appealing. I was also impressed with their facilities and classes on international law. They place about 2.5% of their class in D.C. that said, living in NYC isn't the worst thing I can thing of.

Also, since many of you will point this out, I do not plan on retaking, my parents have agreed to cover all my living expenses, which is why the COL has not been factored in. This is only up for grabs if I start next year, as my parents would like to retire in 3 years.

Sorry for making this so long, I just want to make sure I give out all the info. I appreciate any feedback

[Lacepiece23]

Nova fully scholly no debt in the area where you are from sounds like a good deal to me. You are gonna have to get very lucky to get big law or gov from any of these schools so why not go to school in an area where hustling for a job will be easier because you already have ties and connections to that place. Even if u start out at 60k doing small firm work you've won considering you will have no debt. Idk in you position with zero t14s on the board thats what i'd do. Or u could retake in hopes of getting into a t14. Your call.

[grovevilleroad]

Nova fully scholly no debt in the area where you are from sounds like a good deal to me. You are gonna have to get very lucky to get big law or gov from any of these schools so why not go to school in an area where hustling for a job will be easier because you already have ties and connections to that place. Even if u start out at 60k doing small firm work you've won considering you will have no debt. Idk in you position with zero t14s on the board thats what i'd do. Or u could retake in hopes of getting into a t14. Your call.

Yup.

[top30man]

Nova fully scholly no debt in the area where you are from sounds like a good deal to me. You are gonna have to get very lucky to get big law or gov from any of these schools so why not go to school in an area where hustling for a job will be easier because you already have ties and connections to that place. Even if u start out at 60k doing small firm work you've won considering you will have no debt. Idk in you position with zero t14s on the board thats what i'd do. Or u could retake in hopes of getting into a t14. Your call.

Yup.

Agreed. I'd go to nova.

[2014]

I'd go Nova in this case, a literal free education allows you to go to a lower ranked school and be perfectly comfortable working in a 45-50k legal job that most on this site can't even consider because of debt.

W&L does not place well enough to make it worth 90k+ (including interest) more than Nova and while Cardozo is in NYC, it really only places well there and you are competing with and probably at a disadvantage against all of the T14 and much of the T30 or so.

[peelem]

Free legal education? In this economy, I'd take it and run. Congratulations and good luck!

[hob12]

I'm concerned that Villanova's recently horrible reputation will affect me. Seems like some people are avoiding it like the plague.

[noleknight16]

Nova. You're getting a free legal education.

I do think W&L is worth considering though. It's a good school. But it's not worth 90k of debt compared to 0 at Villanova.

[MrAnon]

I'm concerned that Villanova's recently horrible reputation will affect me. Seems like some people are avoiding it like the plague.

Those other schools offer no edge over Villanova in any way shape or form

[hob12]

I'm concerned that Villanova's recently horrible reputation will affect me. Seems like some people are avoiding it like the plague.

Those other schools offer no edge over Villanova in any way shape or form

Placement in D.C?

I'm honestly very torn, I like all the schools for different reasons.

[MrAnon]

I'm concerned that Villanova's recently horrible reputation will affect me. Seems like some people are avoiding it like the plague.

Those other schools offer no edge over Villanova in any way shape or form

Placement in D.C?

I'm honestly very torn, I like all the schools for different reasons.

Placement in D.C. is a tough road from any of those schools. Do well at any of them, you may have a shot. Do just average or poorly and you will want to steer clear of DC anyway. I scratch your DC dreams altogether. Just focus on your schooling and trying to do well. Then see what happens.

[akak179]

FWIW...I took essentially a full tuition scholly from villanova last year and I have mixed feelings about my decision. I would def recommend Villanova for free over your other options. With that being said, I wish I would have taken a year to retake my 165 and shoot higher. I know how hard it is to think like that in the position you are in now, but especially with the pretty good GPA that you have it really is probably the best decision. If you do decide on Nova and do well you will have a lot of options, but if you could push up that LSAT a little more you would be in a much better position for next cycle.

The recent scandals mean absolutely nothing as far prospects with employers are concerned. I heard the same thing from Nova students when I was worried about the LSAT # scandal and was hesitant to believe it - but it really is the truth. The current administration is really trying to clean up that image and boost numbers for the incoming class (based on how many full rides they are giving out compared to previous years) so I would not let the thought of others avoiding Nova do anything to influence your choice.

[hob12]

FWIW...I took essentially a full tuition scholly from villanova last year and I have mixed feelings about my decision. I would def recommend Villanova for free over your other options. With that being said, I wish I would have taken a year to retake my 165 and shoot higher. I know how hard it is to think like that in the position you are in now, but especially with the pretty good GPA that you have it really is probably the best decision. If you do decide on Nova and do well you will have a lot of options, but if you could push up that LSAT a little more you would be in a much better position for next cycle.

The recent scandals mean absolutely nothing as far prospects with employers are concerned. I heard the same thing from Nova students when I was worried about the LSAT # scandal and was hesitant to believe it - but it really is the truth. The current administration is really trying to clean up that image and boost numbers for the incoming class (based on how many full rides they are giving out compared to previous years) so I would not let the thought of others avoiding Nova do anything to influence your choice.

This is very interesting, could you expand more on your mixed feelings on nova?
I actually did do a retake on the advice of TLS, I went from a 148 to my current score on a rigors 6 month study plan. I think I hit my max.

[hob12]

I've noticed that there are votes for the other two schools, could anyone share their thoughts in favor of WL and Cardozo?