GULG vs. UT vs. WUSTL - International Student Forum

[Unagi]

Hi everyone!

I was already set on WUSTL, but now I'm considering UT and GULG.
VERY IMPORTANT: I'M AN INTERNATIONAL STUDENT WITHOUT A US CO-SIGNER, SO NO LOANS FOR ME!I also cannot get loans in my country because it would be suicidal.

Scholarships:
WUSTL - 129k
UT - resident tuition + 15 k per year (basically 90k total)
GULG - 90k

Goals:
ok job anywhere in the US;
I already work as a lawyer in my country, so I know I like this profession.
No ties to anywhere in the US/ not attracted to big law

I have enough savings to spend 20k per year, which would cover the remaing tuition at WUSTL and pay for COL.
To afford UT or GULG I would need help from my family, and I would prefer not to do this.
I have a good relantionship with my family and they could help me, but this would represent a lot of sacrifice for them, so I'm not very happy with this idea.
How crazy am I to choose WUSTL over these two other options?
And if I give up on WUSTL, should I choose UT or GULG?
UT would be cheaper due to COL. Is GULG much better?

Thanks!!!

[roaringeagle]

Go to WUSTL. It's very cheap to live there, the people are really nice, the campus is great, the OCI guy bats hard for you. Plus romo goes there. Explain your financial situation to them, maybe they'll up it to a full tuition scholly.

DISCLAIMER: I got the same offer at WUSTL and accepted. I think I pissed off GTown by not kissing their asses to get in after they "held" me. Who do they think they are, Harvard? I just don't think it is worth sticker. Also I had a shot at both UVA and UChicago.

[chipchip]

Given your situation, go to UT or GULC. WUSTL's placement is markedly worse than either and isn't as portable. And seriously, if you take the poster above's advice for WUSTL simply because they have a chip on their shoulder about GULC, then that's just a mistake. Yeesh. (I'm a GULC student.)

Sure, there's the money issue, but job prospects are significantly better for UT/GULC students.

[roaringeagle]

Given your situation, go to UT or GULC. WUSTL's placement is markedly worse than either and isn't as portable. And seriously, if you take the poster above's advice for WUSTL simply because they have a chip on their shoulder about GULC, then that's just a mistake. Yeesh. (I'm a GULC student.)

Sure, there's the money issue, but job prospects are significantly better for UT/GULC students.

i have no chip on my shoulder lol. GULC has a chip on its shoulder. It's overrated. 31% get the top firms. also the poster is very worried about debt due to his international status. At WashU he'd have no debt and would not have to bother his family.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

[Doorkeeper]

Where do you want to work in the US? WUSTL confines you to the Midwest (I know that some get out). Texas without any ties to Texas sounds like it would be pretty hard to get a good job there from what I've heard about the Texas hiring market on TLS.

Personally, I would go Georgetown because of its portability, flexibility, and because DC is a city filled with internationals. I could imagine it difficult for someone to integrate into Texas well... This is just speculation of course.

I would go WUSTL or Georgetown here. I don't see why Texas should be in the equation, given that you got into GULC, unless you want to live in Texas. I understand your reasoning for WUSTL, so I can see why you'd want to go there.

[Unagi]

Thanks for the replies!
I actually don't mind being "confined" to the Midwest.
I have a brother studing in Indiana and when I last visited him, we toured some schools in the Midwest.
I LOVED WUSTL. I felt it was a great place and I loved that St. Louis is a mix of small/ big city (IMO).
The main point is that IF I were able to predict I would get a good job from WUSTL, I wouldn't think twice. My biggest worry is that because I'm an international I may face an even harder time to get a job.
In theory, being from a higher ranked school I would be in a better position...
I didn't get a chance to visit UT or GULG, but I visited NYU and was scared about the idea of living in NYC, because it is exactly the type of life I don't want for me and my family. So I'm not really attracted to life in a big city...

[bk1]

i have no chip on my shoulder lol. GULC has a chip on its shoulder. It's overrated. 31% get the top firms. also the poster is very worried about debt due to his international status. At WashU he'd have no debt and would not have to bother his family.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

This is ridiculous i/r/t GULC. Something I keep posting in every GULC thread now:

I'll agree that GULC gets hurt by its large class size but I feel that TLS exaggerates the difference between it and the rest of the T14 (consider that GULCers are more likely to want govt work and are more likely to target DC, one of the hardest markets, rather than NYC, one of the easiest markets). I could be wrong but I feel that it is a lot of conjecture on either side of the argument. I understand that this is a simplistic analysis but looking at NLJ250 data (which of course doesn't account for clerkships and a myriad other things): GULC was within 0.5% of UMich in 2011, within 0.5% of Duke in 2010, over 1% ahead of Cornell in 2009, roughly 5% behind UMich (50vs55) in 2008, roughly 5% behind Berkeley (48vs53) in 2007, almost 5% ahead of Berkeley (53vs49) in 2006, and tied with Berkeley in 2005. Yes GULC is the laggard at the tail end of the T14 because it has a lot of students, but I would not say that the difference is substantial enough to dismiss it outright when compared to another lower T14 at similar cost.

Not to mention on the unemployment/underemployment front GULC does about as poorly as other lower T14's (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=181723). Which gives credence to the idea that self-selection hurts GULC's biglaw placement and not its job placement ability.

@OP: Personally I would take GULC. For 40k more than WUSTL it is a far better school. However you're in a unique situation. Only you can really answer if the difference between WUSTL and GULC is worth taking help from your family for. I would probably take it and then try to help them as much as possible once you're out of school, but I don't know your personal situation so my views aren't that important. More importantly, I'm not you or your family. Even if I or anyone else on TLS knew your situation I don't think they can advise since it is a personal situation. I think the only obvious thing here is that UT is definitely out.

[roaringeagle]

bk remember 2007? no? i do. Then I would say GULC was worth bothering unagi's family for. UCLA was worth going to at %40 with money from them that I got then. Do you freaking see Columbia in 2007? UChicago? I would have begged to get into UChicago then. I got into UVA back then. I could be at either of those places now (maybe). However compare them to today and it's a joke.

THEN

http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... =2&t=61206

NOW

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

[chipchip]

^ What bk187 said. There's so much more going on than just "31% get the top firms."

And GULC doesn't have a chip on its shoulder. (Your significant dislike of it makes no sense to me.) If you'll notice, most of us don't even bother posting here to defend the school because it's really not worth wasting our time going against an unjustified negative groupthink.

[roaringeagle]

forgive me for being a glass is half empty type of guy. a realist pessimistic person might say otherwise

[bk1]

bk remember 2007? no? i do. Then I would say GULC was worth bothering unagi's family for. UCLA was worth going to at %40 with money from them that I got then. Do you freaking see Columbia in 2007? UChicago? I would have begged to get into UChicago then. I got into UVA back then. I could be at either of those places now (maybe). However compare them to today and it's a joke.

If you had bothered to read my post at all you would have realized that I had already linked the exact NLJ numbers you posted. By your logic, Cornell is almost as much of a festering shithole today as GULC is but yet Cornell was almost the best decision somebody could have made a year ago.

I agree with your underlying premise that things that may have made sense in 2007 do not necessarily make sense today, but I don't agree with your conclusion.