Selection Phase Two: Baylor v. UHLC Forum

[Calchexas]

Hey all,

So I've narrowed down my choices to two places: Baylor and UHLC. I'd appreciate insight from mostly current law students and graduates at both institutions, since they know best what it's like at these places.

First off, some things to account for:

-Because I'm a major hustler at work, I have my entire first year ready to be paid for at either school. Yay for less debt (albeit a massive drain on my bank accounts)!

-Due to professional reasons I'd prefer not to disclose, cost of living will be paid for at either location.

-Scholarship offer at Baylor requires a 2.75 GPA.


Now, for some specific questions include the following:

*Both in Comparison and Contrast*

1C) Who has the better alumni network? Something tells me Baylor in general but on the other hand the UHLC crowd seems to stick together, too.

2C) Everything I've seen has indicated to me that Baylor is better than UHLC when it comes to clerkship opportunities.

3C) How good are each of their career centers?

4C) Lastly, what are my chances of earning more scholarship money if I do really well my first year? How far down in class rank do they extend at both places? Is there a chance to earn a near or full ride for 2L and 3L if I make the top 1% or so?

*Baylor*

1B) For people who've graduated from Baylor: is the Practice Law program really worth it? Practice Law and the quarter system were two major reasons why I applied to Baylor, but with the adversity in the legal market right now, I'm not sure if this is the wisest use of my time as opposed to, say securing a job upon graduation.


*Houston*

1H) Can someone help me forecast tuition for 2013-2014 and 2014-2015? Unlike Baylor, which is relatively more predictable, UHLC has been wildly inconsistent in the past couple of years, and with 18-20% hikes, I'm concerned that I may see my sticker price costing more than Baylor's on scholarship.

2H) ...Any recommendations for good, cheap inner-loop apartments?


Thanks to any and all who responded in my previous thread (and to those who respond to this one),

-Cal

[The Rover]

As of right now, what is your total cost of attendance at each?

[stillwater]

Waco is a dump. So you can chalk that up under cons for Baylor. If they are similar in cost, I would say UHLC without a doubt. As for the overall quality of these options, not particularly high, so I would just temper your goals accordingly.

[Calchexas]

The Rover: Assuming I'm in the top 75%, Baylor's gonna be approximately $96-$102K. Houston's 1L is $29K, but I'm clueless about what 2L and 3L will be because I need a good way to predict how much tuition will go up. Assuming it goes up $3k every year (not an unreasonable guess for a public institution looking to spend as much as UT), that'd be 29, 32, and 35, so $99k.

(If I finish in the bottom quarter at either, I would seriously consider dropping out rather than staying and ending up having 50-80 hour work weeks just for a salary that couldn't sustain my debt.)

stillwater: Downtown Houston isn't exactly roses, either. What makes Waco so much more fantastically terrible? Have you lived in both places?

[CanadianWolf]

OP: Consider the greatly increased internship/externship opportunities in Houston as well as the greater number of professional relationships that you should develop while at Houston if willing to live & work in Houston after law school.

[Calchexas]

Very good point, CanadianWolf - thanks!

So are any of you alumni? Current students?

[Nova]

UHLC.

They are peer schools, but only UHLC has a huge home market in their backyard.

(I'm a Texan 0L familiar with both)

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

You could work harder than 99% of your classmates, but your odds of being in the top 1% won't be much higher than 1%. Law school is different.

Chances at federal clerkships are about 1-2% from both schools. If you want a state trial clerkship, you can get that if you work at it. (if that's what your thinking)

Baylor alumni stick together. No idea about UH. What will help you out much more would be to become a very likable person.

100k debt is a ton from these two schools. At least COL in Texas in dirt cheap... Maybe if you live frugally you can get out of debt by your mid-thirties, right before financing a house and having kids.

[bmore]

"Due to professional reasons I'd prefer not to disclose, cost of living will be paid for at either location."

Please do tell. Are you a gigilo?

[Calchexas]

^ loooooooooool.

LRM: I won't have 100k in debt - I'll have about 70k. As mentioned, I'm actually ready to finance the entire first year out of pocket. Granted, the cost is still high, but the actual debt building up interest is not (two years on one chunk; one year one another).

Hope someone can answer my questions (thanks LRM for hitting up the ones that you could). If you guys could direct some recent Baylor/UHLC grads this way, it'd be very useful.

[thewaterlanding]

OP, I have a few friends that have graduated from Baylor Law. Take this advice how you may. One of them graduated at the very top of his class and got a judicial clerkship. The other is an attorney in Dallas and doing very well for himself. They both had to hustle for there current gigs but were helped by connections, grades, etc. From what they have told me, the career services isn't the best around. Yes it is true that Baylor grads look out for their own, but you have to be proactive. This is just what I've been told when I inquired about the same questions. Take it for what it's worth.

Hope this helps.

[HookemHooker]

UofH all the way. The COA of Baylor might be 20K less, but being able to network in Houston is very important. UofH grads have the ability to work in Houston 365 days while UT/SMU/Baylor students are only available to work summers. Also, boutique/med-small sized firms are usually deterred from investing time and money in a student who will be gone 10 months out of the year, but would be more open to hosting a full-year intern. Only 15-20% of the class gets biglaw at both Baylor and Houston so having this fall back should be a deciding factor.

Plus- Waco is in the middle of no where so Jesus can watch over you.

[HookemHooker]

Also with regards to clerkships- neither school has an advantage in this category. Baylor's percentage may seem slightly higher, but their class size is very small. (Think 6 out of 150, prob more like 3 or 4 out of 120) The only school that gets a clerkship advantage is UT, but even we get passed up for all the Top-14 grads who come to Texas just for the sole purpose of clerking.

Clerking is such a small percentage of the job opportunities available upon graduation and should not be relied upon in determining what school to attend.

[Calchexas]

Thewaterlanding: I haven't heard much one way or the other about Baylor's career services office, which concerns me. Maybe that explains why Baylor has so many more unemployed/no info on employment graduates than UHLC?

Thanks for hooking me up with some pretty valuable perspective. If convenient to you (and whoever you ask), would you mind finding out what they thought about Practice Court with regard to actual job prospects?

HookemHooker: Bahahaahaha, yeah I guess Jesus did choose Waco as the promised land; otherwise, Taco Bueno wouldn't have given me a free taco when I visited.

As for your main first point, that's great to know that the summer job prospects (and I guess in-school job prospects in general) are so much better there. Like everyone else, my main goal is getting a j-o-b, and it's beginning to seem more and more like U of H is the best equipped for that purpose (for things both off and on TLS).

Also, ty on clarifying the clerkship situation. Guess if clerking is what I'm set on doing, I'll either have to settle with something statewide or put myself into the best situation.

Thanks to you too, and best of luck in your endeavors. Any idea what OCI are like for both campuses?

[Calchexas]

bump

[Aberzombie1892]

Houston, if for no other reason that it is the premier law school geographically located in one of the top 5 metropolitan areas (by population) in the US. This will pay off in spades for internships during 1L summer/2L academic year/2L summer.

[lurkylurk]

I realize this is not the answer you're looking for, that you won't listen to it, and that you're certain you'll beat the odds with your work ethic and innate intelligence.

Neither of these schools is worth the $125k+ you're paying for the JD. If you are dead set on staying in Texas, the correct choice is to retake the LSAT so you can get in to UT and/or get a significant (75%+) scholarship from Baylor/UH. If that won't work, take that 1L tuition money you have saved up and go to Vegas instead.

[Calchexas]

^Eh, that's fairly useless if you can't explain why these schools aren't worth it.

Trololol.

[top30man]

^Eh, that's fairly useless if you can't explain why these schools aren't worth it.

Trololol.

They aren't worth it at those prices because only a relatively small percentage of the class would be able to service that debt. Check out both schools on law school transparency and the official ABA data. Neither looks like it has a very good chance of paying off 125k.
But if you don't care, I'd pick Houston. But my first choice would be retake.

[Calchexas]

I have checked out clearinghouse; I have checked out official ABA data. Mind going over what you've seen that suggests otherwise? And by $125k, do you guys keep meaning $65-$70k plus interest? Federal loans don't compound that fast, my friend - I'm sorry.

Again, the first year is ready to be completely paid. Servicing $65-$70k even with interest should not be difficult even if I get a $65k job, but if you believe otherwise, feel free to explain why it wouldn't be.

I honestly have plenty of concern about plopping down my work savings from the past 10 months for this, and even more concern letting that nice pocket of debt pile up. So if you want to sell someone on the idea of not going, then here's your chance. Just don't think for a second that I'd drop this because somebody pops into my thread, leaves a brief line about the perils of law school (we know them at this point) and thinks "HRHRHR YEAH THAT'LL SHOW HIM!" Reasoning doesn't work that way.

[de5igual]

I have checked out clearinghouse; I have checked out official ABA data. Mind going over what you've seen that suggests otherwise? And by $125k, do you guys keep meaning $65-$70k plus interest? Federal loans don't compound that fast, my friend - I'm sorry.

Again, the first year is ready to be completely paid. Servicing $65-$70k even with interest should not be difficult even if I get a $65k job, but if you believe otherwise, feel free to explain why it wouldn't be.

I honestly have plenty of concern about plopping down my work savings from the past 10 months for this, and even more concern letting that nice pocket of debt pile up. So if you want to sell someone on the idea of not going, then here's your chance. Just don't think for a second that I'd drop this because somebody pops into my thread, leaves a brief line about the perils of law school (we know them at this point) and thinks "HRHRHR YEAH THAT'LL SHOW HIM!" Reasoning doesn't work that way.

I don't think you've mentioned how much you're making right now (or what sort of profession you're in), but is it worth it to go 70K + interest plus foregone income just to end up where you were (or possibly even worse than where you were)?

[Calchexas]

It is worth it only if I end up with a true legal job, even if I'm only making $60k/year private sector/$40k public; otherwise, I should stick with where I'm at, because obviously nobody wants to go through law school and not be a lawyer. That's a big reason why this board's so popular, after all, and why I posted this in the first place.

That said, I appreciate your healthier tone. So many people (esp. disgruntled law students sitting behind a computer) opt to be negative just for its own end, and are not actually aiming for better ends.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Your comment "even if I only start at 65k" tells us you don't know what you would be getting into. You will likely be median, and median students at these schools are not getting 65k. Try 45k.

Compounded with the fact that you actually asked if you could get additional scholarships from these schools if you ended up in the top 1% means you have not, in fact, done your homework.

[Calchexas]

Belief or disbelief's your call, man. All I care about is just getting answers to my concerns.

And for what it's worth, I happen to think pretty highly of the lot that's getting into both of these schools, so I don't know where a previous poster got the "I'm special and will beat everyone!" thing. Way too many assumptions up in here.

[Calchexas]

Bump.