Vandy vs. BU vs. GW Forum

[RoseMVP]

Hey TLS,

I am having a terrible time choosing between these three. Ultimately, the goal is BigLaw. I prefer to end up in MA or CA (I know these schools don't place well in CA) but BigLaw trumps location for me. I grew up in Boston and went to undergrad there--are those good enough ties to justify leaving state to attend other schools?


Also, for the sake of this discussion please disregard $.

[franklyscarlet]

Disregarding $ isn't a smart way to ask for advice. Should we just take that to mean that you're attending at sticker?

[Aberzombie1892]

Disregarding $ isn't a smart way to ask for advice. Should we just take that to mean that you're attending at sticker?

This. What is the total cost of attendance of each?

At equal cost, BU is the obvious choice.

[RoseMVP]

Disregarding $ isn't a smart way to ask for advice. Should we just take that to mean that you're attending at sticker?

Disregarding $ isn't a smart way to ask for advice. Should we just take that to mean that you're attending at sticker?

Hi Scarlet,

I've seen you around in so many of the threads I've browsed that it's a pleasure to finally speak to you! (You're kind of a big deal on TLS haha)

To answer your question, I will not be attending at sticker cost--however, they all offered scholarships within 5k-10k of one another. The difference in cost of attending all three schools, in my opinion, is negligible. Don't get me wrong, I am considering my finances in private with my family and loved ones but for the sake of this discussion, I am just looking for others' opinions on just the criteria I presented.

I guess I'm not asking TLS to choose which law school I should ultimately attend, but help me answer a few questions so I can make that decision in private with my family.

Thanks.

[jrthor10]

Disregarding $ isn't a smart way to ask for advice. Should we just take that to mean that you're attending at sticker?

Disregarding $ isn't a smart way to ask for advice. Should we just take that to mean that you're attending at sticker?

Hi Scarlet,

I've seen you around in so many of the threads I've browsed that it's a pleasure to finally speak to you! (You're kind of a big deal on TLS haha)

She is a big deal everywhere FTR. And BU is the responsible choice if you want to work in MA.

[franklyscarlet]

Aww, you make me feel all special and stuff:)

And that makes sense, but that could have been reflected in the OP. There's a big difference between your considerations, which is a logical "money is relatively similar and I'd like to consider other factors" and other posts we get around here from people who act as if a huge difference in money doesn't matter.

Biglaw is going to be a stretch from all 3- I would think BU would be your best bet.

ETA: oh, you, jthor.

[RoseMVP]

She is a big deal everywhere FTR. And BU is the responsible choice if you want to work in MA.

Out of curiosity, what would be the irresponsible choice?

I agree and BU is where I placed my initial deposit but Vandy's May 1st deadline is creeping up and I guess I'm having second thoughts. I will admit of the three schools, however, I found the general environment there in Nashville to be the most enjoyable--but I guess that's a lesser point after one's career goals...

[BarbellDreams]

Vandy is the best school in terms of overall placement, but CA is gonna be hard from all three and if MA is the only other place you wanna live go to BU. GW shouldn't even be in this discussion.

[RoseMVP]

Vandy is the best school in terms of overall placement, but CA is gonna be hard from all three and if MA is the only other place you wanna live go to BU. GW shouldn't even be in this discussion.

Thanks. I agree and GW is a far distant third. They kind of surprised me yesterday with a scholarship and I haven't really considered them until now--in the interest of time and deadlines, I just decided to throw it in the discussion.

I guess I should clarify: CA and MA are preferred destinations but not the only places I would consider. I have family in NY and DC and those are also attractive alternatives. Also, quite recently, a current BU student told me his/her thoughts on the current state of hiring at BU and the Boston legal market in general and it wasn't very positive. Does this change anybody's opinion?

[woeisme]

What would you do if not biglaw?

If you're big law or bust (eg, biglaw in nashville would beat midlaw in boston), go to Vandy. If opposite is true, go BU.

[2014]

It feels like Vandy with its overall better placement combined with your Boston connections would be my personal choice.

[bk1]

If biglaw is truly what you want you should retake/reapply because even 1 point higher would get you a good shot for better schools for biglaw (e.g. Cornell, UMich, etc).

Hint: it doesn't make sense to be so cagey regarding finaid info when you post it in your profile.

It also doesn't make sense to ignore price. Job prospects do not exist in a vacuum. According to your LSN profile you would be overpaying, imo, for all 3 of these schools. Assuming all loans, with interest at graduation you'd be 155k in debt at BU, 190k debt at GW, and 210k debt at Vandy. So there aren't within 5-10k of each other (unless you meant 5-10k/year). Of all of those I'd take BU easily (especially coupled with your desire for Boston), but that's more money than BU should cost imo. As noted above, I'd go with retake/reapply if you truly want biglaw.

[woeisme]

.

BK, you're a rock star!

[chaoticreassembly]

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I am really wondering why GW is getting such a negative response. DC seems like a great place to practice law, and with powerful networking opportunities for jobs during 2L and 3L years that are probably more abundant than what you'd see in Nashville. Plus, it is 20th in the nation, but I feel like people are acting like you're suggesting attending Thomas Jefferson or something.

It's interesting to me that these are your three choices. Right now I am pretty much decided on going to GW, despite the scholarship that Fordham offered me. I am waiting to hear back from Cornell, Vanderbilt, and BU. Up until now, I have been thinking that an acceptance at Boston would be irrelevant. Vandy would be a tough decision. Of course, I should mention that I am partially swayed by the fact that my boyfriend lives close to DC and I don't want to move far away from him (but I would, rather than base a decision on a guy )

After this, I'm seriously questioning GW!!

So, for those of you who have responded so far: is it because of RoseMVP's expressed preference for MA/CA? The desire for BigLaw? Why the negativity surrounding GW?

[AffordablePrep]

Maybe OP's parents have a lot of money, and it doesn't matter to them.

I'd say BU given OP's preference, and the difference between Vandy and BU is not that massive. Big law firms in Boston may not understand why OP left the region. What is it a 5 slot difference?

[bk1]

Maybe OP's parents have a lot of money, and it doesn't matter to them.

Then OP should retake/reapply and put that money towards better schools rather than putting it towards BU or Vandy.

[2014]

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I am really wondering why GW is getting such a negative response. DC seems like a great place to practice law, and with powerful networking opportunities for jobs during 2L and 3L years that are probably more abundant than what you'd see in Nashville. Plus, it is 20th in the nation, but I feel like people are acting like you're suggesting attending Thomas Jefferson or something.

It's interesting to me that these are your three choices. Right now I am pretty much decided on going to GW, despite the scholarship that Fordham offered me. I am waiting to hear back from Cornell, Vanderbilt, and BU. Up until now, I have been thinking that an acceptance at Boston would be irrelevant. Vandy would be a tough decision. Of course, I should mention that I am partially swayed by the fact that my boyfriend lives close to DC and I don't want to move far away from him (but I would, rather than base a decision on a guy )

After this, I'm seriously questioning GW!!

So, for those of you who have responded so far: is it because of RoseMVP's expressed preference for MA/CA? The desire for BigLaw? Why the negativity surrounding GW?

GW has never had a stellar rep around here. Many schools in the 15-30 range are the best regional school wherever they are such as UCLA/USC in SoCal, Vandy in the Mid South, Minnesota/Wisconsin in that area, WUSTL around KC/STL, BU/BC in Boston, etc, etc. The issue with GW is that it isn't in a strong regional market it is in arguably the second most desirable market so instead of being the big fish in the smaller pond, it instead is competing with a sizable chunk of every single T14 school.

Let's see if anyone vehemently disagrees with me, but that's the gist I've always gotten

[bk1]

GW has never had a stellar rep around here. Many schools in the 15-30 range are the best regional school wherever they are such as UCLA/USC in SoCal, Vandy in the Mid South, Minnesota/Wisconsin in that area, WUSTL around KC/STL, BU/BC in Boston, etc, etc. The issue with GW is that it isn't in a strong regional market it is in arguably the second most desirable market so instead of being the big fish in the smaller pond, it instead is competing with a sizable chunk of every single T14 school.

Let's see if anyone vehemently disagrees with me, but that's the gist I've always gotten

GW is a peer of WUSTL/BU/BC/etc. Yes it's placement is hurt by the fact that it has a ton of students and places into a very competitive market. The real issue with GW is that it's stupid expensive and tends to be stingy. Even their 105k scholarship is kind of laughable in the face of how much they cost. WUSTL generally throws more money around than GW. BU/BC are cheaper than GW. Fordham places into a stronger legal market (but it does have the same issues as GW of being stingy and costing a lot).

[RoseMVP]

If biglaw is truly what you want you should retake/reapply because even 1 point higher would get you a good shot for better schools for biglaw (e.g. Cornell, UMich, etc).

Hint: it doesn't make sense to be so cagey regarding finaid info when you post it in your profile.

It also doesn't make sense to ignore price. Job prospects do not exist in a vacuum. According to your LSN profile you would be overpaying, imo, for all 3 of these schools. Assuming all loans, with interest at graduation you'd be 155k in debt at BU, 190k debt at GW, and 210k debt at Vandy. So there aren't within 5-10k of each other (unless you meant 5-10k/year). Of all of those I'd take BU easily (especially coupled with your desire for Boston), but that's more money than BU should cost imo. As noted above, I'd go with retake/reapply if you truly want biglaw.

Hi bk187,

I appreciate your input. One reason why I did not reference my LSN profile is because it doesn't accurately reflect my financial position. For instance, it does not show that I will be receiving monetary help from a local foundation or that I will not be taking out any loans to attend school or that I can actually make a profit by leasing my condo if I ultimately decide to leave Boston for say Nashville (among other nuances). However, the COAs that I have calculated for these three schools are figures that my family and I are comfortable with and is not a deciding factor. While I appreciate TLS's concern for my investment, I framed--or at least tried to frame--my OP so that I could gauge opinions on other factors that I was having a hard time finding concrete evidence for.

All that being said, do you think I should diversify my target markets? In your opinion, is it too risky to put all my eggs in the Boston market/a school that doesn't really feed into markets outside of New England? Does Vanderbilt's location in Nashville limit BigLaw opportunities?

[bk1]

I appreciate your input. One reason why I did not reference my LSN profile is because it doesn't accurately reflect my financial position. For instance, it does not show that I will be receiving monetary help from a local foundation or that I will not be taking out any loans to attend school or that I can actually make a profit by leasing my condo if I ultimately decide to leave Boston for say Nashville (among other nuances). However, the COAs that I have calculated for these three schools are figures that my family and I are comfortable with and is not a deciding factor. While I appreciate TLS's concern for my investment, I framed--or at least tried to frame--my OP so that I could gauge opinions on other factors that I was having a hard time finding concrete evidence for.

All that being said, do you think I should diversify my target markets? In your opinion, is it too risky to put all my eggs in the Boston market/a school that doesn't really feed into markets outside of New England? Does Vanderbilt's location in Nashville limit BigLaw opportunities?

I think that everything should be factored in, price included. I don't know if you have kids or anything (you say family), but I would personally factor in not having to move kids. If my spouse had a job I'd factor in how hard it would be for her to get a commensurate job in the new area. I also think that people are going to want to give you suggestions based on the entire situation and that you're going to have a hard time getting people to divorce those concerns from each other when giving advice.

I think BU and Vandy both give you a shot at NYC. I think Vandy does better than BU overall, but you probably won't be able to take advantage of Vandy's prestige in the South since you don't seem to have ties to the South. I don't know how much to discount Vandy's overall job prospects by because of that. At similar price I would *probably* take Vandy and aim for NYC, but I'm not 100% convinced that that's the right call. But it's close and I think other factors can heavily play into this. If you have a wife with a good job in Boston I'd probably take BU over Vandy. If you have non-infant children I'd probably take BU over Vandy so as not to move them. Then again I'm not a father so that's more of my opinion on what I would do if I were in that situation and not something I've ever come close to facing.

[woeisme]

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I am really wondering why GW is getting such a negative response. DC seems like a great place to practice law, and with powerful networking opportunities for jobs during 2L and 3L years that are probably more abundant than what you'd see in Nashville. Plus, it is 20th in the nation, but I feel like people are acting like you're suggesting attending Thomas Jefferson or something.

It's interesting to me that these are your three choices. Right now I am pretty much decided on going to GW, despite the scholarship that Fordham offered me. I am waiting to hear back from Cornell, Vanderbilt, and BU. Up until now, I have been thinking that an acceptance at Boston would be irrelevant. Vandy would be a tough decision. Of course, I should mention that I am partially swayed by the fact that my boyfriend lives close to DC and I don't want to move far away from him (but I would, rather than base a decision on a guy )

After this, I'm seriously questioning GW!!

So, for those of you who have responded so far: is it because of RoseMVP's expressed preference for MA/CA? The desire for BigLaw? Why the negativity surrounding GW?

Yeah, it's cause OP wants Boston. GW and BU are comparable otherwise.

[rad lulz]

I think that everything should be factored in, price included. I don't know if you have kids or anything (you say family), but I would personally factor in not having to move kids. If my spouse had a job I'd factor in how hard it would be for her to get a commensurate job in the new area. I also think that people are going to want to give you suggestions based on the entire situation and that you're going to have a hard time getting people to divorce those concerns from each other when giving advice.

I think BU and Vandy both give you a shot at NYC. I think Vandy does better than BU overall, but you probably won't be able to take advantage of Vandy's prestige in the South since you don't seem to have ties to the South. I don't know how much to discount Vandy's overall job prospects by because of that. At similar price I would *probably* take Vandy and aim for NYC, but I'm not 100% convinced that that's the right call. But it's close and I think other factors can heavily play into this. If you have a wife with a good job in Boston I'd probably take BU over Vandy. If you have non-infant children I'd probably take BU over Vandy so as not to move them. Then again I'm not a father so that's more of my opinion on what I would do if I were in that situation and not something I've ever come close to facing.

Basically this. Vandy is the "best" for big law, but without knowing more about you and your goals, it's tough to give decent advice.

[elm84dr]

If biglaw is truly what you want you should retake/reapply because even 1 point higher would get you a good shot for better schools for biglaw (e.g. Cornell, UMich, etc).

Hint: it doesn't make sense to be so cagey regarding finaid info when you post it in your profile.

It also doesn't make sense to ignore price. Job prospects do not exist in a vacuum. According to your LSN profile you would be overpaying, imo, for all 3 of these schools. Assuming all loans, with interest at graduation you'd be 155k in debt at BU, 190k debt at GW, and 210k debt at Vandy. So there aren't within 5-10k of each other (unless you meant 5-10k/year). Of all of those I'd take BU easily (especially coupled with your desire for Boston), but that's more money than BU should cost imo. As noted above, I'd go with retake/reapply if you truly want biglaw.

Hi bk187,

I appreciate your input. One reason why I did not reference my LSN profile is because it doesn't accurately reflect my financial position. For instance, it does not show that I will be receiving monetary help from a local foundation or that I will not be taking out any loans to attend school or that I can actually make a profit by leasing my condo if I ultimately decide to leave Boston for say Nashville (among other nuances). However, the COAs that I have calculated for these three schools are figures that my family and I are comfortable with and is not a deciding factor. While I appreciate TLS's concern for my investment, I framed--or at least tried to frame--my OP so that I could gauge opinions on other factors that I was having a hard time finding concrete evidence for.

All that being said, do you think I should diversify my target markets? In your opinion, is it too risky to put all my eggs in the Boston market/a school that doesn't really feed into markets outside of New England? Does Vanderbilt's location in Nashville limit BigLaw opportunities?

BU. And there are a lot of Alums in California. I believe it is the 3rd highest placement area. If you want Boston or Cali--BU is the only one I would choose out of this list. Vandy doesn't really give you an advantage (maybe slight?) in California, and may not help you at all in Boston. BU alums, are not trapped in New England, it just so happens that a lot of people like living in this area (or NY).

[thelawyler]

I appreciate your input. One reason why I did not reference my LSN profile is because it doesn't accurately reflect my financial position. For instance, it does not show that I will be receiving monetary help from a local foundation or that I will not be taking out any loans to attend school or that I can actually make a profit by leasing my condo if I ultimately decide to leave Boston for say Nashville (among other nuances). However, the COAs that I have calculated for these three schools are figures that my family and I are comfortable with and is not a deciding factor. While I appreciate TLS's concern for my investment, I framed--or at least tried to frame--my OP so that I could gauge opinions on other factors that I was having a hard time finding concrete evidence for.

All that being said, do you think I should diversify my target markets? In your opinion, is it too risky to put all my eggs in the Boston market/a school that doesn't really feed into markets outside of New England? Does Vanderbilt's location in Nashville limit BigLaw opportunities?

I think that everything should be factored in, price included. I don't know if you have kids or anything (you say family), but I would personally factor in not having to move kids. If my spouse had a job I'd factor in how hard it would be for her to get a commensurate job in the new area. I also think that people are going to want to give you suggestions based on the entire situation and that you're going to have a hard time getting people to divorce those concerns from each other when giving advice.

I think BU and Vandy both give you a shot at NYC. I think Vandy does better than BU overall, but you probably won't be able to take advantage of Vandy's prestige in the South since you don't seem to have ties to the South. I don't know how much to discount Vandy's overall job prospects by because of that. At similar price I would *probably* take Vandy and aim for NYC, but I'm not 100% convinced that that's the right call. But it's close and I think other factors can heavily play into this. If you have a wife with a good job in Boston I'd probably take BU over Vandy. If you have non-infant children I'd probably take BU over Vandy so as not to move them. Then again I'm not a father so that's more of my opinion on what I would do if I were in that situation and not something I've ever come close to facing.

This.

And I'd say Vandy if price is no concern. Plus you said you liked the feel. I think Vandy provides you an in at Big Law NYC, but also a way back into Boston. CA might be hard from any of your options.