Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU Forum

[erikjc]

$45,000 at Michigan, no money at NYU.

I really like the law school at Michigan, but am indifferent to Ann Arbor, and dislike the very cold weather.

I'd much rather be in NYC for 3 years, with the possibility of staying longer, but ultimately I'd like to be in California after law school. Not sure if I want to go to a firm or public interest. Public interest would allow me to alleviate my loans, which makes NYU look more attractive, but I'd want to actually enjoy what I'd be doing. So basically, I'm on the fence about my career track, but am hesitant about taking on so much more debt at NYU with the sticker tuition + housing that's twice as expensive. Thoughts?

[Nelson]

Probably Michigan. Whatever small placement advantage NYU has isn't worth the obscene price of sticker tuition and COL.

[shepson]

I'm right on the edge with the same situation, though I'm also thinking about Northwestern (90k). I'm leaning toward NYU at the moment since I'm 99% sure I'm headed in the public interest/policy direction, so NYU's LRAP is a draw. Visiting all three schools in the next ten days or so, so hopefully that will help the process. Seems like if you aren't sure you wanna do public interest, Michigan might be the way to go.

[Tiago Splitter]

Close call, but as you seemed to imply in the OP the ultimate difference will be much more than 45K.

[Nelson]

I'm right on the edge with the same situation, though I'm also thinking about Northwestern (90k). I'm leaning toward NYU at the moment since I'm 99% sure I'm headed in the public interest/policy direction, so NYU's LRAP is a draw. Visiting all three schools in the next ten days or so, so hopefully that will help the process. Seems like if you aren't sure you wanna do public interest, Michigan might be the way to go.

I think you would be crazy to turn down 90k for sticker at CCN.

EDIT: that said, with 90k, you should be able to negotiate that gap down significantly.

[shepson]

You could be right. I did send along my scholarship info from Michigan and NW to NYU and they didn't budge. Must say I was surprised myself.

So you think even if I intend to go into PI and rely on LRAP for loan repayment, the money and the lower COL in Chicago and Ann Arbor tip the balance away from NYU?

[erikjc]

NYU didn't budge for me either, and the correspondence I had with them was very impersonal, in stark contrast with the emails I received from the Michigan financial aid office.

Also waiting for Penn merit scholarships to come out. That could factor in as well.

[erikjc]

Bump: accepted at Columbia! Any opinions?

[CanadianWolf]

Might help if you calculate total COA for each law school & add those figures to your poll.

If cost was equal at all three law schools, which would you chose & why ?

[Mr. Somebody]

Don't forget about cheaper COA At Mich, rougly about 20k total IIRC

[cojonelso]

Depending on how confident you are that you want to do public interest, I would look at Columbia and NYU's public interest repayment programs. I am unfamiliar with NYU's program, but know that Columbia has somewhat recently increased the funding to their LRAP program, making it one of the most generous programs of its kind nationally.

http://www.law.columbia.edu/current_stu ... l_aid/LRAP

[CanadianWolf]

To state the obvious, you have three great options. Congratulations ! Really comes down to your preferences, in my opinion, since there is no wrong choice.

[chasgoose]

First, you probably aren't doing PI if LRAP is your only reason for doing it in the first place. Even with loan repayment, PI is still on net a worse way to "pay back" your loans than big law.

With that out of the way, some may disagree, but I would probably say choosing CLS/NYU over $45k at Michigan wouldn't be a terrible idea if you like living in NYC more or like one of those two schools a lot more than Michigan for whatever reason. If you still can't decide, take the money.

[ahnhub]

So I was in a similar boat (roughly 80K COA difference between Columbia and Michigan--with you I'd think it'd probably be around 70K difference) and I decided to stay in NYC because I already live here and would like to work here.

From what I understand to do the kind of prestigious PI most T-14 grads want straight out the gate requires total dedication to it from the start, and you seem more on the fence about it. I'm gonna stay in NY because totally maximizing by chances at Biglaw was worth $$ to me. If you're in a similar mindset, I'd very narrowly vote for Columbia/NYU. If not, Michigan.

[smokeylarue]

I think either NYU and/or Columbia is easily worth 50k difference just for its superior chances at landing you Big Law.

[shepson]

Just got accepted at Columbia yesterday - also thinking about it. Gonna see if they might throw some money my way because of Northwestern and Michigan scholarships, but I doubt they will this late in the game.

[erikjc]

Just got accepted at Columbia yesterday - also thinking about it. Gonna see if they might throw some money my way because of Northwestern and Michigan scholarships, but I doubt they will this late in the game.

Same here. Sent them Duke and Michigan $$, but not expecting anything.

[erikjc]

I know Columbia would be the best choice for big law, but is that specific to big law in NYC, or would it be beneficial for big law in California as well?

[norcalChk]

If you're looking to pay off student loans, BigLaw is the better option. Columbia is probably your best bet in that respect. But any of the T14 schools should get you into national firms and back to CA. So if you're 100% set on doing BigLaw, then you probably wont mind paying full tuition since you'll be earning the big bucks later on.

On the other hand, if you care more about doing public interest, you might consider that having less debt may actually give you more options upon graduation because you wont be forced into BigLaw to pay off your student loans; you can go for a lower paying job.

(Also, NY can get pretty cold in the winter too.)

[smokeylarue]

I know Columbia would be the best choice for big law, but is that specific to big law in NYC, or would it be beneficial for big law in California as well?

My guess is Columbia is the more prestigiousdegree, and if you have ties and non-shitty grades, should have no problem getting back to California. For what it's worth, I spoke to a dude at Columbia ASW and he said LA was the easiest market to get into (not counting NYC I'm guessing) from Columbia in his year (he's a 2L I believe).

[ahnhub]

My guess is Columbia is the more prestigiousdegree, and if you have ties and non-shitty grades, should have no problem getting back to California. For what it's worth, I spoke to a dude at Columbia ASW and he said LA was the easiest market to get into (not counting NYC I'm guessing) from Columbia in his year (he's a 2L I believe).

So someone from Cali at NYU ASW told me getting back to Cali was also easy (although he was on Law Review, so that probably made it easier) because more west coast employers come to NYU EIW than there are NYU people interested in going to the west coast. Basically 40+ offices spending a significant amount of resources to send interviewers out to NYU, with less than that number wanting to interview. I've heard this a few times on TLS as well, although the general sentiment seems to be geographic closeness matters a lot (as in, take $$ at Berkeley over Columbia for California, whether you're from there or not).

[erikjc]

I wonder if the easiness of "getting back to Cali" relies at all on personal connections in the state. I'm not from CA, I just might want to live there. Also, many people have said "Columbia/NYU" in their answer. What's a good way to parse those two out? Is it just a matter of what part of the city you prefer being in? I visited Columbia informally yesterday, and went to NYU ASW today. It's a tough decision between the two, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I wouldn't expect to go to California from any of these schools if you don't have any connection to the west coast. It's possible, but won't be easy. What's next on your list of preferences?

I do not understand the poll, which seems to indicate that people believe Columbia is worth more than $45,000 more than Michigan while NYU is not. That, basically, makes no sense.

[erikjc]

I wouldn't expect to go to California from any of these schools if you don't have any connection to the west coast. It's possible, but won't be easy. What's next on your list of preferences?

I do not understand the poll, which seems to indicate that people believe Columbia is worth more than $45,000 more than Michigan while NYU is not. That, basically, makes no sense.

NYC is next on the list, and could move to the top anyway, so that's not a big deal. And people must see some advantage that Columbia has over NYU, that's what I'm trying to figure out. The rankings would suggest that there's something, but since they're so close I don't think it can be that much, especially if you want a firm job in NYC. That's what I'm starting to think, anyway. Are there any placement statistics that show an advantage either way?

[Guchster]

I wouldn't expect to go to California from any of these schools if you don't have any connection to the west coast. It's possible, but won't be easy. What's next on your list of preferences?

I do not understand the poll, which seems to indicate that people believe Columbia is worth more than $45,000 more than Michigan while NYU is not. That, basically, makes no sense.

NYC is next on the list, and could move to the top anyway, so that's not a big deal. And people must see some advantage that Columbia has over NYU, that's what I'm trying to figure out. The rankings would suggest that there's something, but since they're so close I don't think it can be that much, especially if you want a firm job in NYC. That's what I'm starting to think, anyway. Are there any placement statistics that show an advantage either way?

I go to CLS. There is no difference between NYU/CLS for big law--at least anywhere in the United States. What you can get with one, you can certainly get with the other.

There is a much bigger difference though between NYU/CLS versus Michigan. Not overwhelming, but definitely substantial. I don't know stats off the top of my head (and too lazy to look), but if you want biglaw at NYUCLS, come and get it. Not the case at Michigan yet. It's up to you if this risk is $50k worth