Rutgers Newark v. Hofstra $$$ v. Cardozo v. Fordham (PT) Forum

[Nick18]

Please help!

Life long resident of NJ. I love NJ but I love NYC even more. Not too sure what type of law I want to go in, although BigLaw would be my goal right now. I have been accepted to Rutgers Newark with no scholarship but obviously with in-state tuition. Hofstra with $35,000 annual scholarship in top 40%, 40%-50%= $17,500 annual, 50%-60%= $8750 annual. I am currently waitlisted at Cardozo, but I emailed them to express an interest to stay on the full-time waitlist for the fall as well as the waitlist for their May program. I am assuming that if I were granted admission, I would not receive any scholarship money. I am also waitlisted at Fordham for the part time program, and likewise I suppose that I would not receive any money if granted admission. What does everyone think? I know a lot of people bash Cardozo, especially at sticker, but it seems like their employment stats are superior to those of Rutgers; 30% of RU grads employed in law firm compared to 50% of Cardozo grads. The question is whether these better stats are worth an extra $60,000 at graduation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks everyone.

[Easy-E]

GPA and LSAT? Only I don't think any of those schools have an outstanding shot at BigLaw aside from Fordham, and it doesn't seem to be a lock from there either. Schools employment stats are most likely BS by the way.


Edit: Your post history tells me you scored a 159. Have you taken the LSAT before February? Would you consider a retake? How did you prep for February?

[timbs4339]

Dozo is placing about 15% in NYC biglaw jobs and they don't travel well. R-N is placing even fewer, but R-N grads can actually access NJ biglaw and midlaw options. Hofstra is probably placing about 5% of grads in biglaw. If biglaw is your goal, retake.

If you would be happy with any legal job, you probably need to ditch the dream of living in MANFUCKINGHATTAN and go to R-N with in-state.

[Easy-E]

Dozo is placing about 15% in NYC biglaw jobs and they don't travel well. R-N is placing even fewer, but R-N grads can actually access NJ biglaw and midlaw options. Hofstra is probably placing about 5% of grads in biglaw. If biglaw is your goal, retake.

If you would be happy with any legal job, you probably need to ditch the dream of living in MANFUCKINGHATTAN and go to R-N with in-state.

I'd add "retake" to that, because it appears you can grab 10k from Rutgers if you break into 160s. That's from LSN so obviously not a rule or anything.

[dingbat]

Don't even think of Hofstra if you have real options.
Rutgers is your best bet if you don't get into Fordham
Fordham at sticker vs Rutgers instate requires serious thought
I assume you'll be working so you won't rack up s crapload of debt if you go to Fordham, so that would trump all other options

[Nick18]

GPA and LSAT? Only I don't think any of those schools have an outstanding shot at BigLaw aside from Fordham, and it doesn't seem to be a lock from there either. Schools employment stats are most likely BS by the way.


Edit: Your post history tells me you scored a 159. Have you taken the LSAT before February? Would you consider a retake? How did you prep for February?

I honestly prepped really hard. Studied for a sold 3-4 months and was PTing anywhere from 155-160. Considering that, I was quite happy that I received a 159 as it was in the top of my PT range. Assuming I didn't get into Fordham, would it be at all worth it to attend Cardozo at sticker vs. Rutgers Newark with in-state? With regard to the employment stats being BS, could you elaborate on that more? Their website reads:

Job Type % Average Salary Median Salary
Law Firm 48.55 $112,582 $135,000
Government 13.83 $51,880 $52,000
Judicial Clerkship 5.79 $53,333 $50,000
Public Interest 11.58 $46,789 $50,000
Business or Industry 18.65 $69,029 $67,500
Academic 0.96 $57,500 N/A
Military 0.64 $60,000 N/A


With 96.59% of graduates reporting this data, and 70% reporting salary overall, and 80% of graduates working in private firms reporting salary overall, I don't understand how this can be "BS" unless these numbers are just outright lies. I am not a suborn hopeful law student dead-set on a certain school and trying to justify attending there, I just want to be sure that I'm making a good decision.

[Sherlock1708]

I am in a similar situation.

Hofstra $40,000/yr, Rutgers-Newark in-state (assuming I sign a NJ lease), and Cardozo (would start in May).

I personally want to practice corporate law in DE, with a focus on either tax or bankruptcy. I am from DE and have significant legal connections to this market. I spoke with a good family friend who is a senior partner at the top firm in DE and also went to Penn for law school. He said that (at least for his firm, which starts first years at $145,000) outside of the top 10 law schools, ranking doesn't matter. His firm does not look at US News rankings nor do they distinguish between schools ranked 30, 50 or 90. According to him, unless you are at a top 10 law school, you must be in the top 10% of your class to get an interview with his firm. He said I should absolutely accept the $40,000/yr from Hofstra rather than pay sticker for Cardozo, Rutgers, etc. Basically if I graduate in the top 10% of my class, I have a job waiting for me. I only want to practice at a large firm and I know that if I lose my scholarship at Hofstra, I will seriously need to reevaluate if this is the right career path for me.

As far as Big Law in NYC, I worked at a top firm in NYC for 3 years after college and still maintain relationships with several of the attorneys at this firm. They all said that it used to be that you should go to the best law school you can, but now that the legal market has changed so much, they would all highly advise against taking out so much debt unless you go to a top school (this is coming from Fordham and NYU grads). The firm where I worked used to hire 60 SAs, now it's around 25. The majority of their SAs from last year came from Penn, NYU, Columbia, Harvard and Cornell... but they did have one from Fordham and one from Syracuse who were at the top of their class. So again, it really doesn't seem like paying sticker for Cardozo or even Fordham is a wise decision, if you have good scholarship money from a lesser ranked school. Whether you go to Fordham, Cardozo, Hofstra, Rutgers, etc., you will need to be at the top of your class for Big Law.

I would love to attend Cardozo, but because my parents will not be making significant contributions towards my legal education, I must be fiscally conservative in my decision for law school.

Everyone's situation is different (in terms of finances, legal connections, etc.) and I would highly suggest that you speak with attorneys in NJ where you probably have the most connections and find out their opinions on your current options.

[Nick18]

So are you leaning towards Hofstra? I'm assuming your $40k scholly comes with the standard three tier stipulation?

[dingbat]

Hofstra is acceptable if youre willing to drop out. The school is not worth paying for and if you aren't top of your class you won't get a job.
None of these schools are worth sticker (an argument can be made for Fordham, but even that's a stretch), do money is king.
Rutgers in-state is reasonable, but risky. Dozo at half-scholly is acceptable, if you only get $15k you need to seriously reconsider.