Minnesota vs. Colorado vs. Nebraska Forum

[HeavenWood]

Minnesota for sure. Good scholly offer with very generous stips. Like Nebraska, I'd imagine going back to South Dakota with a UMN degree would not be a hurdle.

[wallflower1987]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't see a trend here... geez people. It really is crazy... I guess the thing is a full tuition and fees scholly still leaves me borrowing $50,000 compared to $100,000... so it isn't $100,000 to $0... so I guess it makes sense that people are saying Minnesota. I am visiting both this week, and I gotta admit, the advice of the people here on TLS is really changing how I'm feeling about both schools.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

This poll is misguided because noone understands the stips at CU. They are not "TTT," in fact you'd have to be at the extreme bottom of your class to have a 2.9. Median is 3.3 but it's inflated, real median is more like a 3.4. In some of my classes the lowest grade has been a B. You aren't losing that scholarship.

These are all peer schools. Just go to where you want to live and ignore the USNWR.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

am visiting both this week, and I gotta admit, the advice of the people here on TLS is really changing how I'm feeling about both schools.

Not always a good thing. CU will not get you Texas because it is a T1, Minn won't get you there either even though it is a "T20."

All three are great schools for their neck of the woods, but they aren't national. Go to where you want to live.

[wallflower1987]

This poll is misguided because noone understands the stips at CU. They are not "TTT," in fact you'd have to be at the extreme bottom of your class to have a 2.9. Median is 3.3 but it's inflated, real median is more like a 3.4. In some of my classes the lowest grade has been a B. You aren't losing that scholarship.

These are all peer schools. Just go to where you want to live and ignore the USNWR.

Thanks, I wasn't sure what the curve was there! Colorado maintains some appeal in my mind... but I am not sure how to justify it to myself...

[Moultdog]

My biggest concern with Minnesota is the salary information: MN has a somewhat more national reach. How much, though? I want to stay in the upper Midwest; is Minnesota's salary information misleadingly inflated by placements in Chicago, DC, East and West coasts, and if so, how much? Because those don't affect me. The biggest difference I expect is whatever I can get in Minneapolis/St. Paul compared to what I can get in Nebraska or SD. But how big is that difference? It is bound to be smaller than the reported difference, which still includes the advantage Minnesota gains from having better national reach and placement. Not to mention, I am a better test-taker than most at Nebraska, whereas my test-taking skills would be 50-75 percentile at Minnesota... still plenty who are as good or better. Would I be better off finishing in the top 25% at Nebraska or finishing around 50th percentile at Minnesota? Who can know? Isn't it kinda a gamble? (that's for argument's sake, I don't actually believe that the LSAT predicts class rank) Will the difference be enough to cover a $60,000 difference and more? Not expressing doubt, just honestly asking; please chime in!

A few points, fellow South Dakotan:

1. You refer to your test taking skills, and where you fall percentile wise in that context. Knock it off. This is a very specific test you are referring to: the LSAT. The correlation between LSAT success and law school exam success is spotty. Why? Because they aren't the same thing.

2. Minnesota is employing more grads than Nebraska. Part of this has to do with the market they serve. The cities are simply bigger and offer more opportunity than Omaha. Minnesota isn't great, but it is better. And really, Omaha is a bit of a shit hole, dude. The city has still all but refused to clean up the wasteland that is the north side. Sure, Minneapolis' north side isn't all that nice, but there is a lot more that IS nice in the cities than there is in Omaha.

3. Firms. There are a decent number of good sized firms in Minneapolis. Dorsey, Faegre, Briggs, Maslon, RKMC, etc. Kutak Rock is obviously the big dog in Omaha, with a couple other firms of decent size and practice groups. The rest are tiny local offices of national firms. The variety of employers is greater in Minneapolis.

4. The money is the number one concern here, for me. 60k is a big amount of money. I am debt averse as hell, but if it came down to Nebraska v. Minnesota, given the options you have mentioned, I would go to Minnesota. Nebraska is just a shit institution, man. Imo, of course.

Dude, Nebraska's in Lincoln, not Omaha. I will agree though, Minneapolis is a much better city than either of those, but I used to live in Lincoln, and I thought it was a good place to live. Good place to raise a family at least.

[DocHawkeye]

A top 50% stipulation should concern you, then. On this great thing called the bell curve, the difference between being in the 49th percentile and 51st percentile is tiny.

Last cycle, I was offered a scholarship with a top 1/3 stip at UNL which I was able to negotiate away. My only stip is that I don't flunk out. I know that there's a lot more scholarship money to be had this year (per the dean), so you might try to negotiate. If you have other questions about UNL, please let me know.

[bjsesq]

Dude, Nebraska's in Lincoln, not Omaha. I will agree though, Minneapolis is a much better city than either of those, but I used to live in Lincoln, and I thought it was a good place to live. Good place to raise a family at least.

The large firms are in Omaha, dude. That is what I am referring to.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Over the course of a career and adjusted for the differences in cost of living, the $$$ diferences between these schools is negligible. Because you said NEB and CO were prefered over MINN, I'm inclined to say Nebraska because it is the cheapest. Trust me, noone in NEB is going to be more impressed with a Minn or CU degree than a NU degree.

This is 100% about where you want to live.

[Flash]

Dude, Nebraska's in Lincoln, not Omaha. I will agree though, Minneapolis is a much better city than either of those, but I used to live in Lincoln, and I thought it was a good place to live. Good place to raise a family at least.

The large firms are in Omaha, dude. That is what I am referring to.

The best firm in Nebraska is in Lincoln though. But then you can end up competing with t14ers wanting to return to Nebraska.

[bjsesq]

Dude, Nebraska's in Lincoln, not Omaha. I will agree though, Minneapolis is a much better city than either of those, but I used to live in Lincoln, and I thought it was a good place to live. Good place to raise a family at least.

The large firms are in Omaha, dude. That is what I am referring to.

The best firm in Nebraska is in Lincoln though. But then you can end up competing with t14ers wanting to return to Nebraska.

I was under the impression Kutak was the big dog.

[HeavenWood]

Dude, Nebraska's in Lincoln, not Omaha. I will agree though, Minneapolis is a much better city than either of those, but I used to live in Lincoln, and I thought it was a good place to live. Good place to raise a family at least.

The large firms are in Omaha, dude. That is what I am referring to.

The best firm in Nebraska is in Lincoln though. But then you can end up competing with t14ers wanting to return to Nebraska.

All six of them?

[Flash]

Dude, Nebraska's in Lincoln, not Omaha. I will agree though, Minneapolis is a much better city than either of those, but I used to live in Lincoln, and I thought it was a good place to live. Good place to raise a family at least.

The large firms are in Omaha, dude. That is what I am referring to.

The best firm in Nebraska is in Lincoln though. But then you can end up competing with t14ers wanting to return to Nebraska.

I was under the impression Kutak was the big dog.

Kutak's the biggest but Scudder pays significantly more.

and HW it's actually both of them.

[HeavenWood]

The large firms are in Omaha, dude. That is what I am referring to.

The best firm in Nebraska is in Lincoln though. But then you can end up competing with t14ers wanting to return to Nebraska.

I was under the impression Kutak was the big dog.

Kutak's the biggest but Scudder pays significantly more.

and HW it's actually both of them.

I meant "all six T14 grads." Nebraska isn't swelled with homers looking to flex their ties the way Boston or the PNW is.

[Flash]

I was saying both T14 grads.

[NebraskaLawGrad2012]

As a 3L at Nebraska, I can tell you that you will not go wrong in choosing to come here. Originally I am from the midwest, but then chose to go to undergrad and grad school on the West Coast. I was pretty intent on never coming back to the Midwest...until I met with some Nebraska alumni andthe then dean of the law school. I was so impressed with them that I decided to come visit. As soon as I stepped in the door here, I was sold. The facilities are some of the best. I practically lived in the library my first year, not just because I liked to study there but because it was better than the house I was renting. The students and faculty are another great draw. Everyone around here is really nice and willing to help you, and the faculty are truly accessible. I talked to one of my first-year professors more at 11 p.m. at night when he was roaming the library than any other time. If you haven't been here to visit, I'd highly recommend it. I think you'll get a good feel for what it's like here. I'd be happy to show you around if you decide to drop on down for a visit.

All of that said, I just want to point out that you're on the right track in evaluating your decision based on your debt load at the end of law school. In mere months I'll have to start paying on mine and I can tell you the less you have to pay back, the better. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

As far as some of the other comments go about choosing a law school where you want to live, I have to say this is becoming a trend of the past. More and more law students are becoming increasingly mobile, not to mention the current trend in states adopting the Uniform Bar Examination (UBE), which will make entry into states other than Nebraska much easier by the time you graduate law school without having to take multiple bar examinations. I've given you a lot to digest, but feel free to message me if you want more details on my experience here, etc. We also have a new Dean of Admissions and I can put you in touch with her if you'd like some more information about our program.

[romothesavior]

As far as some of the other comments go about choosing a law school where you want to live, I have to say this is becoming a trend of the past.

It's not about the bar exam, it's about the employers who hire people. Going to school at a regional school makes things much more difficult when looking for jobs outside of the region.

That's great that you love your school, I love mine too. But let's also not oversell it. I'm sure the school is nice, the faculty helpful, and all the other things you said are true, but most TLS discussion circles around employment. The data on the website supports what has been said here. The overwhelming majority of students stay in Nebraska or the immediate vicinity, and biglaw odds there are virtually nonexistent outside the very top of the class. Not a knock on Nebraska, again it is a decent regional school if the price is right. But you are being a bit bold on the Cornhusker koolaid.

[DocHawkeye]

As a 3L at Nebraska, I can tell you that you will not go wrong in choosing to come here. Originally I am from the midwest, but then chose to go to undergrad and grad school on the West Coast. I was pretty intent on never coming back to the Midwest...until I met with some Nebraska alumni andthe then dean of the law school. I was so impressed with them that I decided to come visit. As soon as I stepped in the door here, I was sold. The facilities are some of the best. I practically lived in the library my first year, not just because I liked to study there but because it was better than the house I was renting. The students and faculty are another great draw. Everyone around here is really nice and willing to help you, and the faculty are truly accessible. I talked to one of my first-year professors more at 11 p.m. at night when he was roaming the library than any other time. If you haven't been here to visit, I'd highly recommend it. I think you'll get a good feel for what it's like here. I'd be happy to show you around if you decide to drop on down for a visit.

All of that said, I just want to point out that you're on the right track in evaluating your decision based on your debt load at the end of law school. In mere months I'll have to start paying on mine and I can tell you the less you have to pay back, the better. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

As far as some of the other comments go about choosing a law school where you want to live, I have to say this is becoming a trend of the past. More and more law students are becoming increasingly mobile, not to mention the current trend in states adopting the Uniform Bar Examination (UBE), which will make entry into states other than Nebraska much easier by the time you graduate law school without having to take multiple bar examinations. I've given you a lot to digest, but feel free to message me if you want more details on my experience here, etc. We also have a new Dean of Admissions and I can put you in touch with her if you'd like some more information about our program.

As a 1L, I completely agree with all of the relevent points here. Nebraska is a great school. I had the choice of several better ranked schools but Nebraska treated me right (see my above post about geting scholarship stips removed) and really wooed. I love coming to school here and can't imagine going anywhere else.

NebraskaLaw, I didn't know there was anyone else from UNL on here. You should clue me in to your real identity.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Surely someone with a nebraska degree could go work Oregon, but the point is that had that person known he/she wanted to work in Oregon he/she would have been much better served by going to Lewis/Clarke or U of Oregon. Going to a local school is a huge advantage.

[geoduck]

Wow. Just did a search. The Twin Cities alone have over twice the population of Nebraska. Hmm...

[romothesavior]

Surely someone with a nebraska degree could go work Oregon, but the point is that had that person known he/she wanted to work in Oregon he/she would have been much better served by going to Lewis/Clarke or U of Oregon. Going to a local school is a huge advantage.

According to UNL's job data on their website (which I must admit is quite helpful), only 1 person got a job in Oregon in the class of 2010. Nearly 80% of the class stayed in Nebraska, and 83% of the class stayed in the "West North Central" region. Yes I'm sure a lot of this is self-selection, but to talk about Nebraska as having national reach given these stats is just kind of silly.

The biggest weakness in the data is that it doesn't tell us how many people got J.D.-required, full-time jobs. I'd be interested in knowing what that number is, and I would push them on it before matriculating.

Further, the 25%ile of those who reported salaries (which we are not told how many this is) is $19,000. This means a quarter of the class is making under $20,000. The 25%ile for firms is $32,000. and the median firm salary is $52,000. Of course, Nebraska has very low cost of living and it sounds like OP has a lot of scholarship money to go there. But this data again backs up what everyone has been saying ITT; UNL is a very regional school with mediocre job prospects. This isn't disparaging. It's just the truth.

Finally, this data is also from the c/o 2010. Would be interested to see the same comprehensive data for c/o 2011, which is almost certainly worse.

[geoduck]

And don't forget that top 50% stipulation. That would terrify me.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Surely someone with a nebraska degree could go work Oregon, but the point is that had that person known he/she wanted to work in Oregon he/she would have been much better served by going to Lewis/Clarke or U of Oregon. Going to a local school is a huge advantage.

According to UNL's job data on their website (which I must admit is quite helpful), only 1 person got a job in Oregon in the class of 2010. Nearly 80% of the class stayed in Nebraska, and 83% of the class stayed in the "West North Central" region. Yes I'm sure a lot of this is self-selection, but to talk about Nebraska as having national reach given these stats is just kind of silly.

The biggest weakness in the data is that it doesn't tell us how many people got J.D.-required, full-time jobs. I'd be interested in knowing what that number is, and I would push them on it before matriculating.

Further, the 25%ile of those who reported salaries (which we are not told how many this is) is $19,000. This means a quarter of the class is making under $20,000. The 25%ile for firms is $32,000. and the median firm salary is $52,000. Of course, Nebraska has very low cost of living and it sounds like OP has a lot of scholarship money to go there. But this data again backs up what everyone has been saying ITT; UNL is a very regional school with mediocre job prospects. This isn't disparaging. It's just the truth.

Finally, this data is also from the c/o 2010. Would be interested to see the same comprehensive data for c/o 2011, which is almost certainly worse.

Lol that you looked this up.


Secondly, the full time JD is something you can look up if you do some math with the numbers they report to NALP.

[wallflower1987]

As a 3L at Nebraska, I can tell you that you will not go wrong in choosing to come here. Originally I am from the midwest, but then chose to go to undergrad and grad school on the West Coast. I was pretty intent on never coming back to the Midwest...until I met with some Nebraska alumni andthe then dean of the law school. I was so impressed with them that I decided to come visit. As soon as I stepped in the door here, I was sold. The facilities are some of the best. I practically lived in the library my first year, not just because I liked to study there but because it was better than the house I was renting. The students and faculty are another great draw. Everyone around here is really nice and willing to help you, and the faculty are truly accessible. I talked to one of my first-year professors more at 11 p.m. at night when he was roaming the library than any other time. If you haven't been here to visit, I'd highly recommend it. I think you'll get a good feel for what it's like here. I'd be happy to show you around if you decide to drop on down for a visit.

All of that said, I just want to point out that you're on the right track in evaluating your decision based on your debt load at the end of law school. In mere months I'll have to start paying on mine and I can tell you the less you have to pay back, the better. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

As far as some of the other comments go about choosing a law school where you want to live, I have to say this is becoming a trend of the past. More and more law students are becoming increasingly mobile, not to mention the current trend in states adopting the Uniform Bar Examination (UBE), which will make entry into states other than Nebraska much easier by the time you graduate law school without having to take multiple bar examinations. I've given you a lot to digest, but feel free to message me if you want more details on my experience here, etc. We also have a new Dean of Admissions and I can put you in touch with her if you'd like some more information about our program.

As a 1L, I completely agree with all of the relevent points here. Nebraska is a great school. I had the choice of several better ranked schools but Nebraska treated me right (see my above post about geting scholarship stips removed) and really wooed. I love coming to school here and can't imagine going anywhere else.

NebraskaLaw, I didn't know there was anyone else from UNL on here. You should clue me in to your real identity.

Hey, I REALLY want to come to Nebraska, but I asked them to remove the stipulations and they said no. How can I go about negotiating this? I have the scholarship at Minnesota with much more lenient stipulations, so I feel like that should count for something. I have no intention of being in the bottom half of my class, but I have even less intention of going to Nebraska with the real chance of losing my scholarship over something dumb, like one bad grade (which, if it's at all like undergrad, could mean one shit prof). If they remove that stipulation, I will submit my deposit. How can I convince them to remove it, though?

[DocHawkeye]

As a 3L at Nebraska, I can tell you that you will not go wrong in choosing to come here. Originally I am from the midwest, but then chose to go to undergrad and grad school on the West Coast. I was pretty intent on never coming back to the Midwest...until I met with some Nebraska alumni andthe then dean of the law school. I was so impressed with them that I decided to come visit. As soon as I stepped in the door here, I was sold. The facilities are some of the best. I practically lived in the library my first year, not just because I liked to study there but because it was better than the house I was renting. The students and faculty are another great draw. Everyone around here is really nice and willing to help you, and the faculty are truly accessible. I talked to one of my first-year professors more at 11 p.m. at night when he was roaming the library than any other time. If you haven't been here to visit, I'd highly recommend it. I think you'll get a good feel for what it's like here. I'd be happy to show you around if you decide to drop on down for a visit.

All of that said, I just want to point out that you're on the right track in evaluating your decision based on your debt load at the end of law school. In mere months I'll have to start paying on mine and I can tell you the less you have to pay back, the better. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

As far as some of the other comments go about choosing a law school where you want to live, I have to say this is becoming a trend of the past. More and more law students are becoming increasingly mobile, not to mention the current trend in states adopting the Uniform Bar Examination (UBE), which will make entry into states other than Nebraska much easier by the time you graduate law school without having to take multiple bar examinations. I've given you a lot to digest, but feel free to message me if you want more details on my experience here, etc. We also have a new Dean of Admissions and I can put you in touch with her if you'd like some more information about our program.

As a 1L, I completely agree with all of the relevent points here. Nebraska is a great school. I had the choice of several better ranked schools but Nebraska treated me right (see my above post about geting scholarship stips removed) and really wooed. I love coming to school here and can't imagine going anywhere else.

NebraskaLaw, I didn't know there was anyone else from UNL on here. You should clue me in to your real identity.

Hey, I REALLY want to come to Nebraska, but I asked them to remove the stipulations and they said no. How can I go about negotiating this? I have the scholarship at Minnesota with much more lenient stipulations, so I feel like that should count for something. I have no intention of being in the bottom half of my class, but I have even less intention of going to Nebraska with the real chance of losing my scholarship over something dumb, like one bad grade (which, if it's at all like undergrad, could mean one shit prof). If they remove that stipulation, I will submit my deposit. How can I convince them to remove it, though?

I wish I could give you more concerete advice. When I negotiated, I asked for more money (to differentiate the cost of attending from Drake). They said no to more money and I thought that that was the end of it. Several weeks later, I asked for an extension on the seat deposit by a couple of days (because I needed to wait until after payday to write the check). The answer came that that was ok along with notice that the stips had been lifted on my scholarship. I assumed this was an across-the-board move (as was done at Case Western Reserve University) but, as I found out much later, it was not. Sorry I can't be more specific.