Cornell: $90,000 CoA vs. Notre Dame: $0 CoA Forum

Bond · Post by **Bond** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:51 am

I've received some helpful thoughts on my situation, but I'm still undecided and would appreciate any additional insight. Below is the total cost of attendance breakdown for Cornell & Notre Dame (I've already factored in all scholarships [no stipulations] and savings):

Cornell: $90,000 CoA
Notre Dame: $0 CoA

I have ties and family in both the Midwest and the Northeast (more ties to the Midwest currently).

I'm open to BigLaw and other legal career paths (minus public interest). Generally speaking, I want to go to the school that leaves me in the soundest financial position, and also the best career prospects (I know this ideal situation is hard to come by).

I was leaning toward Cornell for a while, but right now I feel like these options are basically a wash ... any advice?

bdubs · Post by **bdubs** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:06 am

Bond wrote:other legal career paths (minus public interest).

What are these "other legal careers" you speak of?

Biglaw or PI is basically it if you count government as PI (which most do, since the pay is usually crappy).

ze2151 · Post by **ze2151** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:08 am

this is a very, very easy choice.

enjoy being a domer.

RodneyBoonfield · Post by **RodneyBoonfield** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:20 am

ze2151 wrote:this is a very, very easy choice.

enjoy being a domer.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:28 am

Bond · Post by **Bond** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:45 pm

bdubs wrote:
Bond wrote:other legal career paths (minus public interest).
What are these "other legal careers" you speak of?

Biglaw or PI is basically it if you count government as PI (which most do, since the pay is usually crappy).

I wasn't counting government as PI, sorry.

Any more thoughts?

KMaine · Post by **KMaine** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:15 pm

Disclaimer: I go to Cornell. I think your job prospects will be improved GREATLY by attending Cornell. A free ND education is a good thing, but if I were you, I would not pass up the opportunity to attend a school that is in a different class. Unlike some of the strong statements above, I don't think this is a slam dunk either way. In fact, both are very good options, but if you want a solid shot at Biglaw, Cornell is your best bet. If you just want to be a lawyer and are can see youself working at a 20 person shop in Indiana (with a chance at something better if you do really well), then ND is the way to go.

bdubs · Post by **bdubs** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:22 pm

Bond wrote:I want to go to the school that leaves me in the soundest financial position, and also the best career prospects

OK, so you need to better define your definition of financial soundness. Are you OK with coming out of school with no debt, but also job prospects that will not land you a high paying position (small/midlaw in midwest)? If financial soundness means the best bet for becoming an upper middle class earner then that is something different.

Notre Dame will offer greater downside protection, but has less upside potential.
Cornell has poorer downside protection, but has much greater upside potential.

You can't have it both ways.

gaud · Post by **gaud** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:43 pm

Free is nice.

JamMasterJ · Post by **JamMasterJ** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:50 pm

Cornell easily. They outplace their rank and under 100K for that placement is great.

Bond · Post by **Bond** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:36 pm

bdubs wrote:
Bond wrote:I want to go to the school that leaves me in the soundest financial position, and also the best career prospects
OK, so you need to better define your definition of financial soundness. Are you OK with coming out of school with no debt, but also job prospects that will not land you a high paying position (small/midlaw in midwest)? If financial soundness means the best bet for becoming an upper middle class earner then that is something different.

Notre Dame will offer greater downside protection, but has less upside potential.
Cornell has poorer downside protection, but has much greater upside potential.

You can't have it both ways.

I'd consider financial soundness to be more so best bet for becoming an upper-middle class earner.

I didn't add this initially (because I'm aware a large degree of the BigLaw jobs are in NYC), but I would prefer to work in Chicago/Midwest secondary market or a Northeast secondary market over NYC. I know Cornell places very well into NYC, and I would assume Cornell still holds an edge over ND in the other markets?

JasonR · Post by **JasonR** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:38 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:Cornell easily. They outplace their rank and under 100K for that placement is great.

+1

AffordablePrep · Post by **AffordablePrep** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:41 pm

gaud wrote:Free is nice.

It's not free, though. It's DEBT free. OP is still spending their savings. It's better than loans, but still not free. I assume the savings are about 60k and for COL? Cornell is still the easy choice here even with a 90k difference. If it's 150k vs. 60k in total loans + savings spent, I'd take the top 14 school being that it's also 3 years of your life, which is an investment tough to put in financial terms, but to me would be worth the extra $.

JasonR · Post by **JasonR** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:50 pm

ze2151 wrote:this is a very, very easy choice.

enjoy being a domer.

Ignore this terrible advice.

RodneyBoonfield · Post by **RodneyBoonfield** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:00 pm

JasonR wrote:
ze2151 wrote:this is a very, very easy choice.

enjoy being a domer.
Ignore this terrible advice.

Its not terrible advice, by ANY means.
I would really just consider your career goals. If you are 100% certain that you want to do big law in NYC, sure, Cornell. ND will (1) keep you out of the hole and (2) give you flexibility in choosing what you really want to do. If you go to ND and decide that you want to do big law, its not out of the question, especially (I would assume) in the midwest. Also, if you don't get a big law job, it will not be the end of the world. You also may be able to get a mid law job that pays equal or just slightly less than big law, with equal or fewer hours. The point is that it won't matter nearly as much.

Also, remember with big law you are working insane hours and your odds of making equity partner (the treasure chest) are not very good.

bdubs · Post by **bdubs** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:02 pm

Bond wrote:I'd consider financial soundness to be more so best bet for becoming an upper-middle class earner.

I didn't add this initially (because I'm aware a large degree of the BigLaw jobs are in NYC), but I would prefer to work in Chicago/Midwest secondary market or a Northeast secondary market over NYC. I know Cornell places very well into NYC, and I would assume Cornell still holds an edge over ND in the other markets?

Cornell, as long as you have strong ties to one of the markets where you want to work.

checkster · Post by **checkster** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:08 pm

Cornell. Enjoy.

gaud · Post by **gaud** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:10 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:
gaud wrote:Free is nice.
It's not free, though. It's DEBT free. OP is still spending their savings. It's better than loans, but still not free. I assume the savings are about 60k and for COL? Cornell is still the easy choice here even with a 90k difference. If it's 150k vs. 60k in total loans + savings spent, I'd take the top 14 school being that it's also 3 years of your life, which is an investment tough to put in financial terms, but to me would be worth the extra $.

I'll agree. Go Cornell, OP.

titan747 · Post by **titan747** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:40 pm

Being debt free from a solid school is never a bad deal. There is no reason to needlessly put your self in near six figure debt for a school with only a somewhat better chance at employment.

kaiser · Post by **kaiser** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:44 pm

JasonR wrote:
ze2151 wrote:this is a very, very easy choice.

enjoy being a domer.
Ignore this terrible advice.

What are you talking about? This is as "on the fence" as one can be with regard to picking a school. It would be impossible to conceive of one choice as being the clear right answer, absent some consideration that OP neglected to share with us.

RobotGardener · Post by **RobotGardener** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:45 pm

Go to the higher ranked school.

igo2northwestern · Post by **igo2northwestern** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:58 pm

I don't really have a strong position towards either school, but I figured that some stats might be relevant to your decision:

ND: 26 students of 190 who graduated in 2011 received jobs in NLJ250 firms (13.68%)
Cornell: 72 students of 188 who graduated in 2011 received jobs in NLJ250 firms (38.3%)

Source: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

It's actually really easy to find these stats over the last 5 years, so perhaps you should do a search on this.

RodneyBoonfield · Post by **RodneyBoonfield** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:03 pm

RobotGardener wrote:Go to the higher ranked school.

Wait for it....

Tiago Splitter · Post by **Tiago Splitter** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:06 pm

kaiser wrote:
JasonR wrote:
ze2151 wrote:this is a very, very easy choice.

enjoy being a domer.
Ignore this terrible advice.
What are you talking about? This is as "on the fence" as one can be with regard to picking a school. It would be impossible to conceive of one choice as being the clear right answer, absent some consideration that OP neglected to share with us.

So then you agree with JasonR.

RobotGardener · Post by **RobotGardener** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:09 pm

kaiser wrote:
JasonR wrote:
ze2151 wrote:this is a very, very easy choice.

enjoy being a domer.
Ignore this terrible advice.
What are you talking about? This is as "on the fence" as one can be with regard to picking a school. It would be impossible to conceive of one choice as being the clear right answer, absent some consideration that OP neglected to share with us.

Nope. Go to the higher ranked school. OP will always wonder what could have been if he doesn't.

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