FSU vs DePaul ($$) Forum

[treefingers7]

FSU Cost of Attendance (tuition / fees / living): $55,748
DePaul Cost of Attendance (tuition / fees / living): $61,000 - (20K/yr scholarship) = $41,000

DePaul gave me a $60K scholarship to be divided among 3 years.

FSU is in Tallahassee - I am gay and REALLY don't like the idea of living in a small town like Tallahassee; I've visited and wasn't impressed. The idea of living in Chicago is incredibly attractive - it's a wonderful city.

Here's the problem:

FSU is ranked 52nd, and DePaul is ranked 89th. However, I applied to the DePaul Intellectual Property Law program which is ranked 11th in the nation - tied with NYU. Would I be stupid to turn down a school ranked considerably better? If I did well the 1st year of FSU, it would be easier to transfer from a school ranked 52nd. Right?

Any thoughts / ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[srfngdd6]

FSU Cost of Attendance (tuition / fees / living): $55,748
DePaul Cost of Attendance (tuition / fees / living): $61,000 - (20K/yr scholarship) = $41,000

DePaul gave me a $60K scholarship to be divided among 3 years.

FSU is in Tallahassee - I am gay and REALLY don't like the idea of living in a small town like Tallahassee; I've visited and wasn't impressed. The idea of living in Chicago is incredibly attractive - it's a wonderful city.

Here's the problem:

FSU is ranked 52nd, and DePaul is ranked 89th. However, I applied to the DePaul Intellectual Property Law program which is ranked 11th in the nation - tied with NYU. Would I be stupid to turn down a school ranked considerably better? If I did well the 1st year of FSU, it would be easier to transfer from a school ranked 52nd. Right?

Any thoughts / ideas would be greatly appreciated.

the bolded is irrelevant...Depaul is in a super saturated market and if your not from Florida getting a solid gig out of FSU would be a grind...where are you from want to live

[rinehart27]

Where do you want to work? Where are you from / where do you have ties to? These are hugely important questions because beyond the top few schools, ranking matter very little. Neither school is going to travel outside of its own region. And I've heard Florida is a tough market to crack without ties.

Specialty rankings do not matter at all.

Is there a stipulation on the scholarship from Depaul? Actually, it doesnt matter. I wouldn't pay 40k a year for a degree from Depaul, and certainly not 55k a year for FSU degree. Study hard and retake the LSAT, and you could be looking at these schools for near free, or open the possibility of acceptances at much better schools.

Don't go to school looking to transfer. There's only a 10% chance of being in the top 10% of your class. Only go if you would be okay graduating from your school.

[timbs4339]

Where do you want to work? Where are you from / where do you have ties to? These are hugely important questions because beyond the top few schools, ranking matter very little. Neither school is going to travel outside of its own region. And I've heard Florida is a tough market to crack without ties.

Specialty rankings do not matter at all.

Is there a stipulation on the scholarship from Depaul? Actually, it doesnt matter. I wouldn't pay 40k a year for a degree from Depaul, and certainly not 55k a year for FSU degree. Study hard and retake the LSAT, and you could be looking at these schools for near free, or open the possibility of acceptances at much better schools.

Don't go to school looking to transfer. There's only a 10% chance of being in the top 10% of your class. Only go if you would be okay graduating from your school.

All this. The OP reads like a checklist of poor assumptions about law school. OP is not ready to go this year.

[Br3v]

Where do you want to work? Where are you from / where do you have ties to? These are hugely important questions because beyond the top few schools, ranking matter very little. Neither school is going to travel outside of its own region. And I've heard Florida is a tough market to crack without ties.

Specialty rankings do not matter at all.

Is there a stipulation on the scholarship from Depaul? Actually, it doesnt matter. I wouldn't pay 40k a year for a degree from Depaul, and certainly not 55k a year for FSU degree. Study hard and retake the LSAT, and you could be looking at these schools for near free, or open the possibility of acceptances at much better schools.

Don't go to school looking to transfer. There's only a 10% chance of being in the top 10% of your class. Only go if you would be okay graduating from your school.

All this. The OP reads like a checklist of poor assumptions about law school. OP is not ready to go this year.

Just because they have bad assumptions does not automatically mean they are not ready this yr.

But OP, the answer is not Depaul. That is certain.

[treefingers7]

Everyone seems to be saying not DePaul? Why?

I am from Atlanta, but am ready to leave the city.

Everyone seems to be against DePaul? How come?

[treefingers7]

Where do you want to work? Where are you from / where do you have ties to? These are hugely important questions because beyond the top few schools, ranking matter very little. Neither school is going to travel outside of its own region. And I've heard Florida is a tough market to crack without ties.

Specialty rankings do not matter at all.

Is there a stipulation on the scholarship from Depaul? Actually, it doesnt matter. I wouldn't pay 40k a year for a degree from Depaul, and certainly not 55k a year for FSU degree. Study hard and retake the LSAT, and you could be looking at these schools for near free, or open the possibility of acceptances at much better schools.

Don't go to school looking to transfer. There's only a 10% chance of being in the top 10% of your class. Only go if you would be okay graduating from your school.

All this. The OP reads like a checklist of poor assumptions about law school. OP is not ready to go this year.

Just because they have bad assumptions does not automatically mean they are not ready this yr.

But OP, the answer is not Depaul. That is certain.

Why not DePaul? Why so certain?

[treefingers7]

FSU Cost of Attendance (tuition / fees / living): $55,748
DePaul Cost of Attendance (tuition / fees / living): $61,000 - (20K/yr scholarship) = $41,000

DePaul gave me a $60K scholarship to be divided among 3 years.

FSU is in Tallahassee - I am gay and REALLY don't like the idea of living in a small town like Tallahassee; I've visited and wasn't impressed. The idea of living in Chicago is incredibly attractive - it's a wonderful city.

Here's the problem:

FSU is ranked 52nd, and DePaul is ranked 89th. However, I applied to the DePaul Intellectual Property Law program which is ranked 11th in the nation - tied with NYU. Would I be stupid to turn down a school ranked considerably better? If I did well the 1st year of FSU, it would be easier to transfer from a school ranked 52nd. Right?

Any thoughts / ideas would be greatly appreciated.

the bolded is irrelevant...Depaul is in a super saturated market and if your not from Florida getting a solid gig out of FSU would be a grind...where are you from want to live

I would like to live in a big city. I'm from Atlanta but ready for a change. Would DePaul's market be too saturated??

[treefingers7]

Where do you want to work? Where are you from / where do you have ties to? These are hugely important questions because beyond the top few schools, ranking matter very little. Neither school is going to travel outside of its own region. And I've heard Florida is a tough market to crack without ties.

Specialty rankings do not matter at all.

Is there a stipulation on the scholarship from Depaul? Actually, it doesnt matter. I wouldn't pay 40k a year for a degree from Depaul, and certainly not 55k a year for FSU degree. Study hard and retake the LSAT, and you could be looking at these schools for near free, or open the possibility of acceptances at much better schools.

Don't go to school looking to transfer. There's only a 10% chance of being in the top 10% of your class. Only go if you would be okay graduating from your school.

All this. The OP reads like a checklist of poor assumptions about law school. OP is not ready to go this year.

Could you please expound on my poor assumptions? How am I thinking about it wrong? Thanks!

[timbs4339]

Everyone seems to be saying not DePaul? Why?

I am from Atlanta, but am ready to leave the city.

Everyone seems to be against DePaul? How come?

-It is hugely expensive
-It has low job placement
-You do not seem to have ties
-It is located in a market that has absolutely been crushed by the recession. There are many schools ranked higher than it that feed into that market including two or even three T14s if you count Michigan.
-Specialty rankings have almost no correlation with job placement. They are measured by professors primarily on the virtues of how good another school's professors are. To get a job in IP law you will either need to work biglaw or have a science/engineering background.

[station4]

Everyone seems to be saying not DePaul? Why?

I am from Atlanta, but am ready to leave the city.

Everyone seems to be against DePaul? How come?

OP, I'll only address this, because I actually think it should be one of your top considerations. Do a forum search for information about DePaul and its scholarship stipulations. I wrote this in the fall in another topic:

"You said, "I got accepted at DePaul with some $$ (basically a whole year of tuition paid for)" I am guessing you got the same "Dean's Merit Scholarship in the total amount of $60,000" that I did. However, reading further in this letter from DePaul, I see that I get a guaranteed $20,000 my first year and then my scholarship will be renewed if I "continue as a full-time student in the full-time day program and maintain a minimum cumulative grade point average of 3.20 at the end of each academic year." It continues and says that if you get a 2.9, you are eligible for half the scholarship to be renewed.

A little digging reveals in the DePaul Law Student handbook (--LinkRemoved--) that a B+ is given a weight of 3.3 and a B is given a weight of 3.0 (Page 17). Additionally:

"The College of Law faculty adopted the following mandatory grade curve that applies to
all first‐year courses and to upper‐level classes with 50 or more enrolled students:
A 12%‐17%
A‐ and/or B+ 20%‐30%
B 20%‐30%
B‐ and/or C+ 20%‐30%
C or below 10%‐15%
In addition, the mean or average for all DePaul students in any course subject to this
grade curve must be between 2.95 and 3.15. All LARC sections taught by the same
instructor" (Page 18)

Now, maybe someone has a different interpretation of this policy, but by setting the scholarship renewal bar above the curve, it means that a large number of people with this stipulation will not be getting their full scholarship amount for 2L year. Additionally, the bottom 30-45% of each section will not be getting any merit scholarship their 2L year (if they had one to begin with, but DePaul's policy seems to be to send everyone some money).

So, I look at it this way: I was admitted to DePaul with a $20,000 scholarship. The other $40,000 is in no way guaranteed. I totally intend to work very hard in law school and believe I can be successful, but I believed the same thing in undergrad and my GPA there was under a 3.20. And going to a school which people pretty unanimously seem to think is inferior to Kent and Loyola (and obviously UC and Northwestern), not to mention all the other schools which place in Chicago (T14, UIUC, Notre Dame), scares me. I can handle a less than rosy job picture, but the thought of that coupled with the possibility of also losing $40,000 out of my scholarship because I was only slightly above-average? Ouch."

Also, read this NY Times article about the same phenomenon at other schools: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/busin ... wanted=all

[llachans]

I'm from Chicago. Do NOT go to DePaul unless you get full tuition (or very, very close to it). Chicago is super saturated as is. On top of that, you have competition from T-14 schools (a lot of students that don't get NYC, will go to Chicago). Aside from that you have UI, Iowa, WI, MN, etc feeding into the Chicago market before DePaul/Kent/Loyola even get a chance.

There's students from NW and Chicago that don't even get a job in the city. Honestly, you will be screwed if you go to DePaul/Kent/Loyola. If you'll take that chance, please at least minimize your debt. Outside the T-14, you really shouldn't go to school on sticker (and 20 k off of a ridiculously high tuition) is close to most schools at sticker.

If you really want Chicago, retake. Also, work on developing ties to Chicago.

I feel for you as I like Chicago, but it's just not worth it coming from those schools. If you don't believe us, do a search of TLS and go to the DePaul/Kent/Loyola thread (there's a thread that compares the three schools and you'll really see how bad the employment prospects are). Also check out lawschooltransparency.com if you haven't.

Also, remember that rankings outside of the T-30 or so are pretty useless. Just choose a strong regional school, hopefully in a region which isn't saturated by too many law schools.

[srfngdd6]

FSU Cost of Attendance (tuition / fees / living): $55,748
DePaul Cost of Attendance (tuition / fees / living): $61,000 - (20K/yr scholarship) = $41,000

DePaul gave me a $60K scholarship to be divided among 3 years.

FSU is in Tallahassee - I am gay and REALLY don't like the idea of living in a small town like Tallahassee; I've visited and wasn't impressed. The idea of living in Chicago is incredibly attractive - it's a wonderful city.

Here's the problem:

FSU is ranked 52nd, and DePaul is ranked 89th. However, I applied to the DePaul Intellectual Property Law program which is ranked 11th in the nation - tied with NYU. Would I be stupid to turn down a school ranked considerably better? If I did well the 1st year of FSU, it would be easier to transfer from a school ranked 52nd. Right?

Any thoughts / ideas would be greatly appreciated.

the bolded is irrelevant...Depaul is in a super saturated market and if your not from Florida getting a solid gig out of FSU would be a grind...where are you from want to live

I would like to live in a big city. I'm from Atlanta but ready for a change. Would DePaul's market be too saturated??

in simple terms, yes its too saturated...Chicago has UCHI NW plus top kids from the midwest T1 that want to work in Chicago...sure the top 10%-20% at Depaul probably fares ok but theres an 80% chance that wont be you

[arigoldwannabe]

I am a current FSU 1L who loves the school....

Dont pay out-of-state sticker for FSU.

[checkster]

A current FSU professor is an alum of my undergrad, I ate dinner with her the other night. She said everyone is having a tough time getting good employment from there, but out-of-staters are getting killed.

[curiousnole]

I'm a 0L so I won't speak to the employment prospects at FSU, but I am currently attending undergrad here and I think your experience here was not a representative sample. I myself am not gay, but this is a very gay friendly area (relatively speaking for florida). I've met a lot of gay people up here (3 former roommates) who really enjoy the areas. Some parts of Tally are rough, but some parts are as nice as it gets (up thomasville road where all the professors, doctors, lawyers, and politicians live). The rough parts are close to the school which is probably why you saw them, but Tallahassee has engaged in a very aggressive gentrification program recently and it's really starting to make a difference. In my last 4 years here it has gotten dramatically nicer and more construction is on the way. Also, if you are a sports fan, there is nothing like going to one of the football games, NOTHING. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents. Good luck on your decision.

[rad lulz]

.

[Easy-E]

FSU is ranked 52nd, and DePaul is ranked 89th. However, I applied to the DePaul Intellectual Property Law program which is ranked 11th in the nation - tied with NYU.

This information is meaningless. DePaul is not on par with NYU in any aspect whatsoever. Maybe tuition? They both have books and windows perhaps? I don't know.

[seancris]

A current FSU professor is an alum of my undergrad, I ate dinner with her the other night. She said everyone is having a tough time getting good employment from there, but out-of-staters are getting killed.

Since we are sharing anecdotes, I have a friend at FSU law who is a 3L. I asked him if he thought that getting a 45k/yr legal job at or near graduation was reasonable. He said no. 40k was more realistic. With enormous debt (150k+), that should scare the shit out of you.

Also, I should add that my friend still "isn't sure" if he'll be working in law at graduation and that he's thinking about "utilizing [his] skills in acting and social media to pay the bills."

[rgucsb]

FSU all the way, Depaul isn't much better than John Marshall in Chicago, which are at the bottom of the Chicago totem pole

[seancris]

Also, if you are a sports fan, there is nothing like going to one of the football games, NOTHING.

Err... aside from maybe going to a college football game in a sold-out stadium.

[NoleMatt]

Also, if you are a sports fan, there is nothing like going to one of the football games, NOTHING.

Err... aside from maybe going to a college football game in a sold-out stadium.

You take that back

[curiousnole]

I mean they sold out every game the last two years except for their scrub games (Charleston southern, etc.)... It honestly borders on riots sometimes haha (83,000 pumped fans when we beat the shit out of Florida two years ago and the Oklahoma game this year). ESPN also listed FSU as having the best tradition in the nation, which is something that is instantly noticeable at the games.

[seancris]

ESPN also listed FSU as having the best tradition in the nation, which is something that is instantly noticeable at the games.

C'mon now.

As for (mostly) selling out for the past few years, that's a recent trend. An average game in the last five years definitely wasn't sold out.

[curiousnole]

yeah, but we sucked for years upon years. No one sells out when they suck for a long period of time. Even texas, with the most loyal fan base there is, didn't sell out all of last year because they've sucked for a while now. Ticket sales ebb and flow with the strength of the team. That's college football. Would The Swamp have been 40% full with 10 minutes on the clock at the FSU game last year (when it was clear they were gonna lose) if the gators had been a top 10 team? Of course not, because teams just don't have as much support when they suck. Looking at it objectively, the Seminoles are going to be good the next few years (maybe not great, but certainly relevant nationally) so they will have full stadiums, a great atmosphere, etc. Thus, the aforementioned experience with "nothing like it" will be happening at FSU and very few other schools (especially law schools) will be able to offer that so I figured it was worth mentioning.