WUSTL (60K) vs. Fordham (15k) Forum

[ilovemike425]

Hi,

I am trying to decide between WUSTL(60k) and Fordham (15k). I want biglaw in NYC. I know about our current economic conditions and that biglaw jobs aren't easy to get coming from either school. However, I would like some input from the TLS community.

[romothesavior]

I think both are just too expensive, absent some other factor (like you have a big nest egg built up for law school). 120k in debt at WUSTL vs. probably 160k+ from Fordham (and this isn't even counting interest) for a maybe 20-25% shot at biglaw? No thanks, especially ITE.

Where are you from? Where are your ties? Any interest in working outside of NYC? I could maybe stomach WUSTL if you had other ties or were okay with non-NYC jobs, but if you are deadset on NYC biglaw, you shouldn't be looking here, at least not at that price.

[CanadianWolf]

OP: Have you calculated total COA for each school ?

My best guess is that both offers are a bit too expensive if your target market is NYC biglaw.

[ilovemike425]

I'm from Oklahoma. I have family in both NYC and St. Louis. I'm still waiting to hear back from USC, Vanderbilt, and UVA(WL). I will be paying for school with loans. Of course, the COL is less in St. Louis than New York. I could work and live somewhere other than NYC. Although, I'm pretty set on New York.

[MrAnon]

This is like saying you want to win the lottery, so you are going to purchase 100,000 tickets. You still could lose. And the odds remain against you. Especially with biglaw firms folding every year. There is probably no worse feeling than going to Fordham for NYC biglaw and getting shut out of it so I would take the money at WUSTL. If you do really really well you can get NYC biglaw. If you do so-so then chances are not so hot you would have gotten it from Fordham. So at least you saved yourself some money and are not stuck in high cost of living NYC

[thexfactor]

I'm from Oklahoma. I have family in both NYC and St. Louis. I'm still waiting to hear back from USC, Vanderbilt, and UVA(WL). I will be paying for school with loans. Of course, the COL is less in St. Louis than New York. I could work and live somewhere other than NYC. Although, I'm pretty set on New York.

YOu need to get into USC/Vandy/UVA. Those schools will give you a 2x+ chance at getting a biglaw/midlaw/big fed job / art 3 clerkship.

I'm assuming you are a splitter either 3.8-3.9x with a 159-160 or 168 with 3.0. Did you do UVA Ed?

Either way you need to retake.

[dingbat]

Hi,

I am trying to decide between WUSTL(60k) and Fordham (15k). I want biglaw in NYC. I know about our current economic conditions and that biglaw jobs aren't easy to get coming from either school. However, I would like some input from the TLS community.

Did you get $15k per year at Fordham or will your tuition be $15k per year?
(if we're talking $15k total / $5k per year scholly, we can stop talking now - Fordham at or near sticker is too big a risk if you're taking out loans)
If you get $15k per year (Fordham scholly has no stipulatons) you're looking at an approximate cost of $150k-$200k

At Fordham you need to be top 1/3rd to have a shot at NYC biglaw (about 25% placed), which is the best shot outside if the T14
If you do not get this, NY midlaw pays six figures, at a rough estimate, being middle 1/3rd of the class will allow you to get a job where you can afford to pay back your loans, although you won't be living a life of luxury.
However, being bottom 1/3rd of your class means you're in trouble.

So, your gamble has the following possible outcomes:
1/3 get what you want
1/3 don't get what you want, but you'll be ok
1/3 you're fucked
Is that a gamble you're willing to take?

Also note that you'll be fairly stuck in NY (not just because a Fordham degree isn't portable, but because that level of debt requires a NY salary to pay off)
NY isn't a location but a lifestyle. While many people love it, there are a lot of people who live here for a year and realize it's not for them. With $150k+ of law school debt, that's a tough pickle to be in

[ilovemike425]

At the moment, Fordham is offering 5k per year. Although, I'm trying to negotiate with them.

[dingbat]

At the moment, Fordham is offering 5k per year. Although, I'm trying to negotiate with them.

Try to get that up. Fordham at (close to) sticker is a very big gamble (I would do it myself, but would not recommend it to someone else)

[ilovemike425]

I've heard that Fordham is pretty stingy with scholarships? Has anyone had or know of any successful negotiation stories?

[dingbat]

I've heard that Fordham is pretty stingy with scholarships? Has anyone had or know of any successful negotiation stories?

Yes, me
What are your numbers? I've spoken with dean xxxx who said quite bluntly that they buy numbers. To get good money, you need to be above both medians.
Also, according to their website they only go up to $20k per year and their actual maximum this year is $30k (except for 2 full schollys)

If you think you qualify, Fordham also gives out need based aid (again, total scholly maxes out at $30k)

Note that Fordham schollys have no stipulations and are automatically renewed (need based aid is re-evaluated for your 3rd year, based on any summer income you've received)

[ilovemike425]

I've heard that Fordham is pretty stingy with scholarships? Has anyone had or know of any successful negotiation stories?

Yes, me
What are your numbers? I've spoken with dean xxxx who said quite bluntly that they buy numbers. To get good money, you need to be above both medians.
Also, according to their website they only go up to $20k per year and their actual maximum this year is $30k (except for 2 full schollys)

If you think you qualify, Fordham also gives out need based aid (again, total scholly maxes out at $30k)

Note that Fordham schollys have no stipulations and are automatically renewed (need based aid is re-evaluated for your 3rd year, based on any summer income you've received)

I have a 3.33 GPA with a 168. My softs are pretty good... if that even matters..

[dingbat]

I've heard that Fordham is pretty stingy with scholarships? Has anyone had or know of any successful negotiation stories?

Yes, me
What are your numbers? I've spoken with dean xxxx who said quite bluntly that they buy numbers. To get good money, you need to be above both medians.
Also, according to their website they only go up to $20k per year and their actual maximum this year is $30k (except for 2 full schollys)

If you think you qualify, Fordham also gives out need based aid (again, total scholly maxes out at $30k)

Note that Fordham schollys have no stipulations and are automatically renewed (need based aid is re-evaluated for your 3rd year, based on any summer income you've received)

I have a 3.33 GPA with a 168. My softs are pretty good... if that even matters..

That GPA might be an issue. There are people with better numbers than you who are SOL.
Either way, they're not really improving their numbers with you, so unless you're bringing something interesting to the table you're not likely to get more.

But, it doesn't hurt to ask

[ilovemike425]

Does anyone think that Vandy is a better option for NYC?

[thexfactor]

Does anyone think that Vandy is a better option for NYC?

IMO vandy = fordham in NYC. This is primarly due to self selection. Most vandy people aren't interested in NYC biglaw.

However, vandy is better than fordham in any other area of the US.