SMU vs Notre Dame Forum

[rolltide90]

Im from Texas and would prefer to live in Texas after law school. I have narrowed my choices to SMU (+$15,000/yr) and Notre Dame. I understand that Notre Dame is ranked a good bit higher but I think SMU would give me better job prospects in Texas. Is this correct? Thanks for any feedback.

[Aberzombie1892]

Wait...so Notre Dame has offered you nothing, SMU has offered you $15,000, and you want to work in Texas?

How is this even a question?

[CanadianWolf]

SMU

[Blindmelon]

Wait...so Notre Dame has offered you nothing, SMU has offered you $15,000, and you want to work in Texas?

How is this even a question?

+1. This is easy.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Disagree. Take ND. For only 45k more, you have a degree that is going to be more respected in TX than SMU. TX is a fairly catholic state, and ND has a tremendous alumni network. ND does not follow TLS conventional wisdom.

If you didn't have ties to TX, I would say SMU. But a TX guy/girl who goes to ND can certainly get back to TX, no problem. If you are catholic and want to keep that network up this that much better. If not, still I'd take ND and spend both summers in TX.

[de5igual]

15K a year at 70K COA = 165K worth of debt plus interest & tuition increases

if you are from dallas and can stay with relatives and commute, SMU might not be such a bad option. otherwise, that's a shit ton of money for a less than 20% chance on biglaw. i vote for retake/reapply.

[FryBreadPower]

Wait...so Notre Dame has offered you nothing, SMU has offered you $15,000, and you want to work in Texas?

How is this even a question?

+1. This is easy.

/thread

[Blindmelon]

Disagree. Take ND. For only 45k more, you have a degree that is going to be more respected in TX than SMU. TX is a fairly catholic state, and ND has a tremendous alumni network. ND does not follow TLS conventional wisdom.

If you didn't have ties to TX, I would say SMU. But a TX guy/girl who goes to ND can certainly get back to TX, no problem. If you are catholic and want to keep that network up this that much better. If not, still I'd take ND and spend both summers in TX.

That is egregious ND trolling. ND places about abot 13.7% into bigfirms, SMU 10.3%. You think 45k + interest is worth a 3.4% chance better at a bigfirm? Also, SMU will have way more Texas firms recruiting than ND.

[swilson215]

Wait...so Notre Dame has offered you nothing, SMU has offered you $15,000, and you want to work in Texas?

How is this even a question?

+1. This is easy.

/thread

No, really. SMU is giving you money and you will have a degree from a TX school.

Seriously. /thread for real.

[kalvano]

Disagree. Take ND. For only 45k more, you have a degree that is going to be more respected in TX than SMU. TX is a fairly catholic state, and ND has a tremendous alumni network. ND does not follow TLS conventional wisdom.

This is perhaps the most egregiously wrong and awful advice I have ever read on TLS.

[kalvano]

Disagree. Take ND. For only 45k more, you have a degree that is going to be more respected in TX than SMU. TX is a fairly catholic state, and ND has a tremendous alumni network. ND does not follow TLS conventional wisdom.

If you didn't have ties to TX, I would say SMU. But a TX guy/girl who goes to ND can certainly get back to TX, no problem. If you are catholic and want to keep that network up this that much better. If not, still I'd take ND and spend both summers in TX.

That is egregious ND trolling. ND places about abot 13.7% into bigfirms, SMU 10.3%. You think 45k + interest is worth a 3.4% chance better at a bigfirm? Also, SMU will have way more Texas firms recruiting than ND.

SMU places more than 10% into Biglaw.

[Blindmelon]

Disagree. Take ND. For only 45k more, you have a degree that is going to be more respected in TX than SMU. TX is a fairly catholic state, and ND has a tremendous alumni network. ND does not follow TLS conventional wisdom.

If you didn't have ties to TX, I would say SMU. But a TX guy/girl who goes to ND can certainly get back to TX, no problem. If you are catholic and want to keep that network up this that much better. If not, still I'd take ND and spend both summers in TX.

That is egregious ND trolling. ND places about abot 13.7% into bigfirms, SMU 10.3%. You think 45k + interest is worth a 3.4% chance better at a bigfirm? Also, SMU will have way more Texas firms recruiting than ND.

SMU places more than 10% into Biglaw.

Yup, .3% more. Check the NLJ numbers.

[rad lulz]

.

[kalvano]

Disagree. Take ND. For only 45k more, you have a degree that is going to be more respected in TX than SMU. TX is a fairly catholic state, and ND has a tremendous alumni network. ND does not follow TLS conventional wisdom.

If you didn't have ties to TX, I would say SMU. But a TX guy/girl who goes to ND can certainly get back to TX, no problem. If you are catholic and want to keep that network up this that much better. If not, still I'd take ND and spend both summers in TX.

That is egregious ND trolling. ND places about abot 13.7% into bigfirms, SMU 10.3%. You think 45k + interest is worth a 3.4% chance better at a bigfirm? Also, SMU will have way more Texas firms recruiting than ND.

SMU places more than 10% into Biglaw.

Yup, .3% more. Check the NLJ numbers.

It will go up next year. Well more than 10% were placed this past OCI.

[de5igual]

It will go up next year. Well more than 10% were placed this past OCI.

gotta compare apples to apples though. ND's probably did too (although given the Midwest T25 OCI thread...)

[kalvano]

It will go up next year. Well more than 10% were placed this past OCI.

gotta compare apples to apples though. ND's probably did too (although given the Midwest T25 OCI thread...)

I'm sure it will, but...how many of those firms are from Texas / Dallas?

[de5igual]

It will go up next year. Well more than 10% were placed this past OCI.

gotta compare apples to apples though. ND's probably did too (although given the Midwest T25 OCI thread...)

I'm sure it will, but...how many of those firms are from Texas / Dallas?

at ND? 0

this came up in a ND vs UH thread a while ago, but the OP was adamant that the ND alum network would overcome that hurdle.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I don't go to ND, I'm not Catholic, but I have lived in Texas and I know a lot of catholics there. ND has a very good reputation in states where there are lots of catholics. You have to remember, a strong catholic with harvard undergrad numbers might take ND for undergrad anyway, and twenty/thirty years this was even more prevalent. In Texas, SMU is a good school but it really isn't much better than UH or Baylor, despite all the anti-Baylor posts on TLS. Everyone thinks that if you go to any school other than UT, that you had to settle. However the 32% of texans that are catholic might not think so--- http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/arch ... holic.html

Also those big law stats are hilarious. More meaningful would be to look at all total firms of over 100+ attorneys. However, what I'm saying is SMU is really struggling in Dallas right now which makes makes it impossible for this to be a /thread discussion. Both are overpriced. If it were me, I'd pay 45k to have the domer network and a highly respected degree in a state where lots of firms would like to have a ND grad on their website. Room for disagreement here I think.

Also the credited response is retake and reapply unless OP is wealthy and doesn't care about 200k.

[kalvano]

I don't go to ND, I'm not Catholic, but I have lived in Texas and I know a lot of catholics there. ND has a very good reputation in states where there are lots of catholics. You have to remember, a strong catholic with harvard undergrad numbers might take ND for undergrad anyway, and twenty/thirty years this was even more prevalent. In Texas, SMU is a good school but it really isn't much better than UH or Baylor, despite all the anti-Baylor posts on TLS. Everyone thinks that if you go to any school other than UT, that you had to settle. However the 32% of texans that are catholic might not think so--- http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/arch ... holic.html

Also those big law stats are hilarious. More meaningful would be to look at all total firms of over 100+ attorneys. However, what I'm saying is SMU is really struggling in Dallas right now which makes makes it impossible for this to be a /thread discussion. Both are overpriced. If it were me, I'd pay 45k to have the domer network and a highly respected degree in a state where lots of firms would like to have a ND grad on their website. Room for disagreement here I think.

Also the credited response is retake and reapply unless OP is wealthy and doesn't care about 200k.

Religion will not make one bit of difference in legal hiring.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I don't go to ND, I'm not Catholic, but I have lived in Texas and I know a lot of catholics there. ND has a very good reputation in states where there are lots of catholics. You have to remember, a strong catholic with harvard undergrad numbers might take ND for undergrad anyway, and twenty/thirty years this was even more prevalent. In Texas, SMU is a good school but it really isn't much better than UH or Baylor, despite all the anti-Baylor posts on TLS. Everyone thinks that if you go to any school other than UT, that you had to settle. However the 32% of texans that are catholic might not think so--- http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/arch ... holic.html

Also those big law stats are hilarious. More meaningful would be to look at all total firms of over 100+ attorneys. However, what I'm saying is SMU is really struggling in Dallas right now which makes makes it impossible for this to be a /thread discussion. Both are overpriced. If it were me, I'd pay 45k to have the domer network and a highly respected degree in a state where lots of firms would like to have a ND grad on their website. Room for disagreement here I think.

Also the credited response is retake and reapply unless OP is wealthy and doesn't care about 200k.

Religion will not make one bit of difference in legal hiring.

Just like it doesn't make one bit of difference in politics.

This is a very shortsighted view of things.. Just because something doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it is not very important to others. Super life lesson.

If you are referring to big law hiring only, I'll cut you some slack and maybe say that it is very unlikely to have any effect. Since the vast majority of law students either do not want or do not get big law, I assumed you were speaking more broadly.

[kalvano]

I don't go to ND, I'm not Catholic, but I have lived in Texas and I know a lot of catholics there. ND has a very good reputation in states where there are lots of catholics. You have to remember, a strong catholic with harvard undergrad numbers might take ND for undergrad anyway, and twenty/thirty years this was even more prevalent. In Texas, SMU is a good school but it really isn't much better than UH or Baylor, despite all the anti-Baylor posts on TLS. Everyone thinks that if you go to any school other than UT, that you had to settle. However the 32% of texans that are catholic might not think so--- http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/arch ... holic.html

Also those big law stats are hilarious. More meaningful would be to look at all total firms of over 100+ attorneys. However, what I'm saying is SMU is really struggling in Dallas right now which makes makes it impossible for this to be a /thread discussion. Both are overpriced. If it were me, I'd pay 45k to have the domer network and a highly respected degree in a state where lots of firms would like to have a ND grad on their website. Room for disagreement here I think.

Also the credited response is retake and reapply unless OP is wealthy and doesn't care about 200k.

Religion will not make one bit of difference in legal hiring.

Just like it doesn't make one bit of difference in politics.

This is a very shortsighted view of things.. Just because something doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it is not very important to others. Super life lesson.

If you are referring to big law hiring only, I'll cut you some slack and maybe say that it is very unlikely to have any effect. Since the vast majority of law students either do not want or do not get big law, I assumed you were speaking more broadly.

Your entire premise is ridiculous. That ND is a better bet than SMU, or even equal to it, in terms of hiring for Texas and Dallas because it's a Catholic school?

When I searched, there were less than 30 ND alumni working in Dallas firms.

It is, literally, the worst advice I have ever read on TLS. It's utterly ridiculous ND trolling.

Short-sighted is saying go to a school where not one firm from the OP's desired location comes for OCI, which has a tenuous at best connection to the market, and is $45K more expensive to attend.

[Blindmelon]

Your entire premise is ridiculous. That ND is a better bet than SMU, or even equal to it, in terms of hiring for Texas and Dallas because it's a Catholic school?

When I searched, there were less than 30 ND alumni working in Dallas firms.

It is, literally, the worst advice I have ever read on TLS. It's utterly ridiculous ND trolling.

Short-sighted is saying go to a school where not one firm from the OP's desired location comes for OCI, which has a tenuous at best connection to the market, and is $45K more expensive to attend.

Meh, let the trolls troll. There was a huge thread a while ago with some people saying that ND would be better for Boston than BC because of Irish people or something. ND students (or prospective) sort of weird me out.

[romothesavior]

Disagree. Take ND. For only 45k more, you have a degree that is going to be more respected in TX than SMU. TX is a fairly catholic state, and ND has a tremendous alumni network. ND does not follow TLS conventional wisdom.

This is perhaps the most egregiously wrong and awful advice I have ever read on TLS.

+1.

Also, Texas is a fairly Catholic state because of the huge numbers of immigrants, the vast majority of whom do not work at big law firms. So yeah... that's a terrible point. Also, Catholics aren't like Mormons with BYU. Hell, almost every Catholic I know hates Notre Dame.

And what everyone else said. ND trolling used to be bad on TLS, but I thought it had died down a bit. This is just the most egregious ND trolling I've seen.

[FryBreadPower]

The fact that this thread has hit 24 posts is absurd.

[Mal Reynolds]

Hell, almost every Catholic I know hates Notre Dame.

whoa whoa whoa Ms. Lippy. What kind of shitty ass Catholics do you know?