St. John's vs Hofstra (full scholarship at both) Forum

[Wily]

I'd like to work in the NY metro area or Long Island (native Long Islander), and I'd probably live on campus at either. Since I have a full-ride at both (top 40% stips at both), it's coming down to quality of life at either school and of course employment opportunities afterward. I'm aware that neither is very well ranked, but the higher ranked schools have all wait-listed me, so here's where I'm looking. Thanks in advance for opinions.

[Wily]

Bump. Any opinions? Thanks.

[JCFindley]

I think you're talking about six of one or a half dozen of the other to use an old cliche.

What are the stipulations on the full ride at each? That would be a huge factor if they were significantly different.

As I understand it Hofstra does better on LI so if you want to work in Suffolk or Nassau County Hofstra may have an edge.

Which would be an easier commute? They really are only a few miles apart but it is NY traffic so that could be a big difference.

Have you visited both? Which one do you like better?

Job prospects are not stellar from either but with a full ride it's not like you are going into huge debt for either. I would think it would come down to a personal choice between relative equals.

[Wily]

I think you're talking about six of one or a half dozen of the other to use an old cliche.

What are the stipulations on the full ride at each? That would be a huge factor if they were significantly different.

As I understand it Hofstra does better on LI so if you want to work in Suffolk or Nassau County Hofstra may have an edge.

Which would be an easier commute? They really are only a few miles apart but it is NY traffic so that could be a big difference.

Have you visited both? Which one do you like better?

Job prospects are not stellar from either but with a full ride it's not like you are going into huge debt for either. I would think it would come down to a personal choice between relative equals.

The stipulations are the same, top 40% to keep the full scholarship, with declining percentages of the scholarship if you're in 40% to 65%. I'd probably live on campus at both because I live about an hour and a half away in Suffolk. As for feel of the schools, Hofstra seems to have better admitted students events, so I've seen a little more of it than St. John's. The mock lecture at St. John's was pretty good though.

Does St. John's have better placement in NYC (even if it's bad to start with) than Hofstra? I would assume it might be slightly better?

As for personal details, I have an abominable GPA from an Ivy League college and a 168 LSAT. I took it six years ago and got a 176, but that score expired because I didn't apply on time, one of the huge mistakes I made.

I have a feeling people are going to say "retake and reapply"...

[romothesavior]

You should retake and not go to either.

If you must go, go to St. John's and drop out if you lose your scholarship.

[Samara]

So, you've previously scored a 176 on a real test and you're considering settling for St. John's or Hofstra? How can anything other than retake be TCR?

[JCFindley]

I think you're talking about six of one or a half dozen of the other to use an old cliche.

What are the stipulations on the full ride at each? That would be a huge factor if they were significantly different.

As I understand it Hofstra does better on LI so if you want to work in Suffolk or Nassau County Hofstra may have an edge.

Which would be an easier commute? They really are only a few miles apart but it is NY traffic so that could be a big difference.

Have you visited both? Which one do you like better?

Job prospects are not stellar from either but with a full ride it's not like you are going into huge debt for either. I would think it would come down to a personal choice between relative equals.

The stipulations are the same, top 40% to keep the full scholarship, with declining percentages of the scholarship if you're in 40% to 65%. I'd probably live on campus at both because I live about an hour and a half away in Suffolk. As for feel of the schools, Hofstra seems to have better admitted students events, so I've seen a little more of it than St. John's. The mock lecture at St. John's was pretty good though.

Does St. John's have better placement in NYC (even if it's bad to start with) than Hofstra? I would assume it might be slightly better?

As for personal details, I have an abominable GPA from an Ivy League college and a 168 LSAT. I took it six years ago and got a 176, but that score expired because I didn't apply on time, one of the huge mistakes I made.

I have a feeling people are going to say "retake and reapply"...

I think St J has a slight edge in NYC but not enough to really make a difference....

I will take a wild guess and say if it has been that long since you were in school you are currently employed and making a living. That combined with the expired 176 would lead me to believe there is quite a bit of credence to the sit out and retake option and getting it back up to that or better.

Living in Suffolk might give you better ties to LI to the extent they are even useful there in Hofstra's domain....

IMHO it really will come down to which you like better if you go this cycle.

[Chucky21]

I would say St. John's has a slight edge. However, I am going to echo the retake sentiment in this thread. You got a 176 before you can do it again. And tbh with a low gpa you have to do amazingly well in the LSAT to offset that, regardless of which college you graduated from.

As a positive if you have significant work experience since college then that will help your application. You can show that you have matured since college and that your gpa is not now indicative of your work ethic.

Maybe a third option is sticking with your current career, if that is an option for you. Unless you really want to be a lawyer, spending three years of your life at St. Johns or Hofstra (even with a full ride) most likely will not give you the boost in pay that you may be looking for.

That being said, good luck in your decision.

[rad lulz]

.

[AffordablePrep]

Jcfindley, firms and solo attornies/smaller firms (where most of Hofstra works) won't care if OP lives in suffolk, nassau or queens. They may find it weird if op lives in suffolk unless he's married or living with his parents. There are little to no single people renting in suffolk county unless it's for work (like retail, etc.) Long Island also is not that insulated (li s perceived as just part of nyc by many long islanders, and the cost of living is equal to nyc, and more expensive than queens for instance where quality of single life is leagues better).

[JCFindley]

Jcfindley, firms and solo attornies/smaller firms (where most of Hofstra works) won't care if OP lives in suffolk, nassau or queens. They may find it weird if op lives in suffolk unless he's married or living with his parents. There are little to no single people renting in suffolk county unless it's for work (like retail, etc.) Long Island also is not that insulated (li s perceived as just part of nyc by many long islanders, and the cost of living is equal to nyc, and more expensive than queens for instance where quality of single life is leagues better).

Thanks Prep....

[AffordablePrep]

They both aren't well respected. Successful alumni i know from both have certain traits that most don't have, and are smart in an aggressive street smart way that most law students, particularly pampered long island kids are not. I don't want to generalize from a non-representative sample but it's not like Hofstra has Long Island, and Cardozo couldn't get Long Island, and does even half of Cardozo's 3l have a job secured? Besides, it's not like Long Island is to NYC what connecticut is to boston. There isn't big business out there. It's just a place for people who work in Manhattan to live a more country-esque life.

[Wily]

Thanks for the responses, even the negative ones. The only problem I have with the "retake/reapply" answer is that my GPA really was so low (way below 3.0) that I'm not sure a few more points on the LSAT will make a difference. As in, even if I got a 176 again, I think schools ranked in the top 30 would still be scared of taking me. Am I off base here, or does breaking 170 matter a lot more than I think, even with a terrible GPA?

[sunynp]

Don't go to either school. You also have 6 years of work experience to help your application and your GPA. Retake is an excellent option for you.

FWIW: Hofstra has already been sued.
http://www.anziskalaw.com/uploads/Filed ... plaint.pdf

St. John's has been named as part of a class action suit by former students that will be filed in May.

You might want to steer clear of that mess. The law suits are being picked up IN A VERY MINOR WAY by news outlets like CNN and Forbes, but I think the visibility will only increase.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/wlf/2012/03 ... n-lawyers/

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com ... w-schools/

[Chucky21]

Thanks for the responses, even the negative ones. The only problem I have with the "retake/reapply" answer is that my GPA really was so low (way below 3.0) that I'm not sure a few more points on the LSAT will make a difference. As in, even if I got a 176 again, I think schools ranked in the top 30 would still be scared of taking me. Am I off base here, or does breaking 170 matter a lot more than I think, even with a terrible GPA?

Well you're right in the sense that you cannot hide from your GPA. However, you want to give a law school a reason for accepting you. To elaborate, you want to have an LSAT score above their 75th percentile so as to contribute to their stats for rankings etc. Your GPA is going to hurt them and you cannot change that, but you can change your LSAT score, and this is arguably the only thing you can do to enhance to numbers and make yourself an attractive applicant.

[rad lulz]

.

[keg411]

Thanks for the responses, even the negative ones. The only problem I have with the "retake/reapply" answer is that my GPA really was so low (way below 3.0) that I'm not sure a few more points on the LSAT will make a difference. As in, even if I got a 176 again, I think schools ranked in the top 30 would still be scared of taking me. Am I off base here, or does breaking 170 matter a lot more than I think, even with a terrible GPA?

A 176 plue WE can get you NW, GULC, or WUSTL, even with your GPA.

Yeah, but why would OP go to WUSTL to work on Long Island? That seems like ridiculous rank-whoring. And depending on OP's age and long-term goals, NW/GULC at sticker aren't necessarily fabulous options.

OP: you've said you want to work on LI. What exactly do you want to do with your law degree? Because I think that depends on whether or not you should retake, go to one of the local schools, or keep doing whatever you're doing.

[Samara]

Thanks for the responses, even the negative ones. The only problem I have with the "retake/reapply" answer is that my GPA really was so low (way below 3.0) that I'm not sure a few more points on the LSAT will make a difference. As in, even if I got a 176 again, I think schools ranked in the top 30 would still be scared of taking me. Am I off base here, or does breaking 170 matter a lot more than I think, even with a terrible GPA?

A 176 plue WE can get you NW, GULC, or WUSTL, even with your GPA.

Yeah, but why would OP go to WUSTL to work on Long Island? That seems like ridiculous rank-whoring. And depending on OP's age and long-term goals, NW/GULC at sticker aren't necessarily fabulous options.

OP: you've said you want to work on LI. What exactly do you want to do with your law degree? Because I think that depends on whether or not you should retake, go to one of the local schools, or keep doing whatever you're doing.

Yeah, WUSTL may not be the best option, but could a retake get the OP significant money, if not a full ride, at Fordham, Cardozo or even Brooklyn? Those would all be much better choices for OP, no?

[keg411]

Thanks for the responses, even the negative ones. The only problem I have with the "retake/reapply" answer is that my GPA really was so low (way below 3.0) that I'm not sure a few more points on the LSAT will make a difference. As in, even if I got a 176 again, I think schools ranked in the top 30 would still be scared of taking me. Am I off base here, or does breaking 170 matter a lot more than I think, even with a terrible GPA?

A 176 plue WE can get you NW, GULC, or WUSTL, even with your GPA.

Yeah, but why would OP go to WUSTL to work on Long Island? That seems like ridiculous rank-whoring. And depending on OP's age and long-term goals, NW/GULC at sticker aren't necessarily fabulous options.

OP: you've said you want to work on LI. What exactly do you want to do with your law degree? Because I think that depends on whether or not you should retake, go to one of the local schools, or keep doing whatever you're doing.

Yeah, WUSTL may not be the best option, but could a retake get the OP significant money, if not a full ride, at Fordham, Cardozo or even Brooklyn? Those would all be much better choices for OP, no?

As someone who had a sub-3.0 GPA, I followed a lot of people who were in my shoes, and basically the best outcome for someone like that is Northwester at sticker. If OP's goal is BigLaw, then I 100% agree that OP should re-take and just apply there. If OP's goal is to just work on Long Island for some small firm, then there's really no reason to go through the motions and re-take and here is why:

1) There is a chance, even with a 176, OP gets flat rejected from Fordham. And even with a 180, I doubt he gets anywhere close to significant $$$.
2) I don't know what kind of $$ OP got from Cardozo and Brooklyn with his 168, but they're still both T2's with generally crappy employment outcomes. A full ride from Brooklyn isn't really all that different than a full-ride at St. John's. I'm no fan of Hofstra/St. John's, but I don't think Dozo and Brooklyn are really significantly better schools, especially for someone who wants to work on LI.

Generally, the decent coastal schools hate splitters. That's just how things are. A splitter from the midwest is just in better career shape than a splitter who lives on the coasts. (Though I'd say NYC is better than CA, which is where splitters go to die ).

[JCFindley]

Thanks for the responses, even the negative ones. The only problem I have with the "retake/reapply" answer is that my GPA really was so low (way below 3.0) that I'm not sure a few more points on the LSAT will make a difference. As in, even if I got a 176 again, I think schools ranked in the top 30 would still be scared of taking me. Am I off base here, or does breaking 170 matter a lot more than I think, even with a terrible GPA?

A 176 plue WE can get you NW, GULC, or WUSTL, even with your GPA.

Yeah, but why would OP go to WUSTL to work on Long Island? That seems like ridiculous rank-whoring. And depending on OP's age and long-term goals, NW/GULC at sticker aren't necessarily fabulous options.

OP: you've said you want to work on LI. What exactly do you want to do with your law degree? Because I think that depends on whether or not you should retake, go to one of the local schools, or keep doing whatever you're doing.

Yeah, WUSTL may not be the best option, but could a retake get the OP significant money, if not a full ride, at Fordham, Cardozo or even Brooklyn? Those would all be much better choices for OP, no?

Fordham increases the odds of getting a higher end job significantly (By my definition) but the job prospects at Cardozo and Brooklyn are not that significantly better than those at the full ride options he has now. Would it be worth sitting out a year to increase the chances marginally? (Cardozo or Brooklyn....) Now, a full ride at Fordham or good money there might well be worth it but how much money could the OP genuinely expect if the GPA is truly low and then repeats the 176?

Of course, it depends if the increased odds of a job are significant to the OP enough to wait a year.

JC

[Chucky21]

Just to add a little bit of info to the thread, a full ride at Fordham is virtually unheard of. The max amount seems to be $30,000 per annum which is nothing to laugh at, but is noteven close to a full ride.

[romothesavior]

Just to add a little bit of info to the thread, a full ride at Fordham is virtually unheard of. The max amount seems to be $30,000 per annum which is nothing to laugh at, but is noteven close to a full ride.

Correct, and getting a huge scholarship from Fordham usually requires incredibly good stats, usually the kind that would get you into Cornell or even CN. Fordham is a solid T30 school in terms of job placement, but it is a dangerous combination of expensive and stingy. At least most other expensive T20-30 schools with similar prospects give out big scholarships, making the decision a little bit justified. But Fordham just rarely seems justified, IMO.

[JCFindley]

Just to add a little bit of info to the thread, a full ride at Fordham is virtually unheard of. The max amount seems to be $30,000 per annum which is nothing to laugh at, but is noteven close to a full ride.

Correct, and getting a huge scholarship from Fordham usually requires incredibly good stats, usually the kind that would get you into Cornell or even CN. Fordham is a solid T30 school in terms of job placement, but it is a dangerous combination of expensive and stingy. At least most other expensive T20-30 schools with similar prospects give out big scholarships, making the decision a little bit justified. But Fordham just rarely seems justified, IMO.

Probably doesn't apply to the OP but for any vets reading this Fordham is quite generous with their part the Yellow Ribbon Program as it works with the GI Bill. Basically it would make Fordham a full ride and pay a housing allowance while in school. Neither NYU or CLS come close to that so Fordham is the best chance at a good job prospect for the schools In NYC without going into any additional dept. (Again, for veterans with the GI Bill)

FWIW, Cardoza and St Johns are the other two in the city that a vet can also use the GI Bill and attend without incurring additional debt.

JC