Desperate: Please help me decide. Forum

[bk1]

Must be nice to have the option to hang out another year hoping you will do better next year.

Just curious, why not go to a "lesser" school then transfer later?

Because it is both much easier to improve on and cheaper to take the LSAT than it is to go to a school and do well enough to transfer.

Option 1: Get a job that pays your bills, study for the LSAT on the side. The job will cover any expenses you have and the LSAT will cost $1000-2000 at most (assuming a tutor or a class) or merely a few hundred dollars if you self-study (plenty of amazing guides for that on this site). If you don't do well you can do it again, and again, and again until you get the LSAT you need.

Option 2: Go to a crappy school. Take out loans for cost of living as well as tuition putting you in tens of thousands of dollars of debt for a single year. Compete against classmates who have a similar LSAT/GPA to you and who are working just as hard as you are while getting thrown into a forced curve. If you're top 10%, yay you can transfer. The other 90% of the time you've wasted a year of your life, racked up a ton of debt, and are stuck because you don't have the option of retaking your 1L.

Pretty obvious which one is the smarter path.

[JCFindley]

Thanks BK, that makes sense for most situations......

JC

[gsenator]

I agree JC. I'm just going to work as hard as I can and hope for the American Dream to kick in sometime soon. otherwise I guess you and me can kill ourselves on facebook.

[DCDuck]

OP- Check out this thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&start=25

I answered a lot of questions there. If you have any other questions, you are welcome to PM me. I do, however, agree with everything that has been posted here. 3LStudent also accurately described the scene up here. People aren't exaggerating- it is really dire. That doesn't mean that it might not be the right choice for you, you should just be as informed as you can so that you can appropriately weigh the risks of such a big commitment. Let me now if you have any questions!

[josh43299]

GS, pick the school you like and go with it.... Personally, being a big college football fan I would go with the Ducks.... Plus there are some hot girls there and maybe you can find one to marry and support ya later.... (I am J/K about that btw..... because I am sure whatever they are majoring in won't pay 160K either)

I have only been on this forum for half a day and am already contemplating killing myself because I won't get into a T-14 school....) I am honestly not sure why the 15 and higher even exist anymore except to steal our money..... I have been in some negative groups but so far this forum has beat all I've ever seen....... ROFLMAO

I have seen that wait a cycle a LOT on here today..... Must be nice to have the option to hang out another year hoping you will do better next year.

Just curious, why not go to a "lesser" school then transfer later? (I honestly have no idea how that works......) But then again, this is "Top" Law Schools and I suppose that is where the focus is.....

If I listened to all the people that said that can't be done or your odds are slim I would never get anything done.

Good luck on your selections,

JC

This is an idiotic mischaracterization of what has been posted (at least in this thread). There are times in life where being resolute must meet rationality and objectivity to accomplish your potential. Getting in the top 10% at any of these schools is going to be much harder than getting a 170+ or so on the LSAT (Not to say you must be in the top 10%, especially if you have connections through family). But forget all that for a second. Most people in these forums say something like the following: "Okay, you want to be successful as you define it, then turn the odds in your favor (if they are slim). Don't settle for a position that goes against that definition of success...don't foolishly slim your own odds. Take the abundant information here and make a personal decision (if you solicited opinions, take them into consideration as well), but shoot for an LSAT/Law School/Scholarship/whatever, that is beyond what you thought you could get given your starting point. If you achieve your potential there, it will set you up for success." Some are dicks about it, but I have found that this is generally the message on these forums. Therefore, I do not find these forums to be all that negative. I did think that the people here were largely negative around this time last year, however, until I realized that I was merely trying to justify my own momentary irrationality and accepted that I had not done the proper research needed regarding law schools/real COA/hiring trends/etc.

OP: Not sure if you were responding to me, but I was not trying to imply that where you live is a shitty town like mine. I was just trying to compare my prior situation by saying I understand being in a location where you know that the next year is not going to hold more opportunity than the previous.

[MTal]

These schools exist in order to scam desperate young people like you to fork over 150k. Your prospects at coming out of any of these schools gainfully employed with a salary high enough to service your debt is marginable. The odds will be vastly stacked against you. Do not go.

[AssociateX]

These schools exist in order to scam desperate young people like you to fork over 150k. Your prospects at coming out of any of these schools gainfully employed with a salary high enough to service your debt is marginable. The odds will be vastly stacked against you. Do not go.

I agree. I am a practicing attorney, and graduated from a NYC tier 2 law school 10 years ago. I dont post on this board often (I came here via a thread referencing this post on JDUnderground.com also known as JDU) and the legal market over the past 5 years has been DISMAL at best. I hate to sound negative but you have to be realistic here. Law school should never be a last resort for any college grad looking to avoid the current job market. If you can't find a decent job now, its not bloody likely that your odds will vastly improve with a JD + loan debt + 3 yrs lost time on top of that..and I say this as a lawyer who considers myself extremely fortunate to have a great job with a 6 figure salary..it took me nearly a decade to get this place in my career but I made sure my loan debt was the lowest possible amount I needed. If I had to pay $150K for a JD from San Francisco or Seattle or Oregon Law, I just would not go.

[Tom Joad]

Must be nice to have the option to hang out another year hoping you will do better next year.

I am very curious to find out the identity of this shady figure who is going around holding a gun to the heads of 22 year old liberal arts grads.

[Bronck]

Just curious, why not go to a "lesser" school then transfer later? (I honestly have no idea how that works......) But then again, this is "Top" Law Schools and I suppose that is where the focus is.....

Because you have to be at the top of your class to transfer. And your odds of being at the top of your class are very low. So, always go to a school that you would feel comfortable graduating from.

ETA: Didn't notice there was a second page to this thread. Scooped.

[drgonzo]

For what it's worth, I grew up in Seattle. I did not have the stats for UW, and passed on Seattle U because I thought it was way too much money. To me, law school was worth no more than $20,000 per year. At the time I applied, tuition was going to be something like $39,000/year with health insurance.

Additionally, the cost of living is quite high. I can't see making it out for much less than $200,000 if you are borrowing living $$, assuming your $18,000 is applied over three years. Decide if that's worth it.

On the bright side, Seattle has some great adjuncts who are heavy hitters in the local market and a really nice facility. I have no actual or anecdotal experience with any of the other schools you mention.

[JCFindley]

GS, pick the school you like and go with it.... Personally, being a big college football fan I would go with the Ducks.... Plus there are some hot girls there and maybe you can find one to marry and support ya later.... (I am J/K about that btw..... because I am sure whatever they are majoring in won't pay 160K either)

I have only been on this forum for half a day and am already contemplating killing myself because I won't get into a T-14 school....) I am honestly not sure why the 15 and higher even exist anymore except to steal our money..... I have been in some negative groups but so far this forum has beat all I've ever seen....... ROFLMAO

I have seen that wait a cycle a LOT on here today..... Must be nice to have the option to hang out another year hoping you will do better next year.

Just curious, why not go to a "lesser" school then transfer later? (I honestly have no idea how that works......) But then again, this is "Top" Law Schools and I suppose that is where the focus is.....

If I listened to all the people that said that can't be done or your odds are slim I would never get anything done.

Good luck on your selections,

JC

This is an idiotic mischaracterization of what has been posted (at least in this thread). There are times in life where being resolute must meet rationality and objectivity to accomplish your potential. Getting in the top 10% at any of these schools is going to be much harder than getting a 170+ or so on the LSAT (Not to say you must be in the top 10%, especially if you have connections through family). But forget all that for a second. Most people in these forums say something like the following: "Okay, you want to be successful as you define it, then turn the odds in your favor (if they are slim). Don't settle for a position that goes against that definition of success...don't foolishly slim your own odds. Take the abundant information here and make a personal decision (if you solicited opinions, take them into consideration as well), but shoot for an LSAT/Law School/Scholarship/whatever, that is beyond what you thought you could get given your starting point. If you achieve your potential there, it will set you up for success." Some are dicks about it, but I have found that this is generally the message on these forums. Therefore, I do not find these forums to be all that negative. I did think that the people here were largely negative around this time last year, however, until I realized that I was merely trying to justify my own momentary irrationality and accepted that I had not done the proper research needed regarding law schools/real COA/hiring trends/etc.

OP: Not sure if you were responding to me, but I was not trying to imply that where you live is a shitty town like mine. I was just trying to compare my prior situation by saying I understand being in a location where you know that the next year is not going to hold more opportunity than the previous.

You're probably right of course but it is the dickhead delivery that really accomplishes nothing in the way of advice. Some have given useful advice, including yourself but the just stay home if you don't get into YHS mentality is pretty rampant on here as well... Hell, that may well be good advice too, but it isn't what the OP was asking.

The OP didn't ask if he/she should sit out and wait but which of these schools would be best and why. Granted, this thread did not reference taking a 2x4 with rusty nails to the face as a better alternative, but I did read just that on a different thread. It's just not constructive.

JC

[timbs4339]

GS, pick the school you like and go with it.... Personally, being a big college football fan I would go with the Ducks.... Plus there are some hot girls there and maybe you can find one to marry and support ya later.... (I am J/K about that btw..... because I am sure whatever they are majoring in won't pay 160K either)

I have only been on this forum for half a day and am already contemplating killing myself because I won't get into a T-14 school....) I am honestly not sure why the 15 and higher even exist anymore except to steal our money..... I have been in some negative groups but so far this forum has beat all I've ever seen....... ROFLMAO

I have seen that wait a cycle a LOT on here today..... Must be nice to have the option to hang out another year hoping you will do better next year.

Just curious, why not go to a "lesser" school then transfer later? (I honestly have no idea how that works......) But then again, this is "Top" Law Schools and I suppose that is where the focus is.....

If I listened to all the people that said that can't be done or your odds are slim I would never get anything done.

Good luck on your selections,

JC

This is an idiotic mischaracterization of what has been posted (at least in this thread). There are times in life where being resolute must meet rationality and objectivity to accomplish your potential. Getting in the top 10% at any of these schools is going to be much harder than getting a 170+ or so on the LSAT (Not to say you must be in the top 10%, especially if you have connections through family). But forget all that for a second. Most people in these forums say something like the following: "Okay, you want to be successful as you define it, then turn the odds in your favor (if they are slim). Don't settle for a position that goes against that definition of success...don't foolishly slim your own odds. Take the abundant information here and make a personal decision (if you solicited opinions, take them into consideration as well), but shoot for an LSAT/Law School/Scholarship/whatever, that is beyond what you thought you could get given your starting point. If you achieve your potential there, it will set you up for success." Some are dicks about it, but I have found that this is generally the message on these forums. Therefore, I do not find these forums to be all that negative. I did think that the people here were largely negative around this time last year, however, until I realized that I was merely trying to justify my own momentary irrationality and accepted that I had not done the proper research needed regarding law schools/real COA/hiring trends/etc.

OP: Not sure if you were responding to me, but I was not trying to imply that where you live is a shitty town like mine. I was just trying to compare my prior situation by saying I understand being in a location where you know that the next year is not going to hold more opportunity than the previous.

You're probably right of course but it is the dickhead delivery that really accomplishes nothing in the way of advice. Some have given useful advice, including yourself but the just stay home if you don't get into YHS mentality is pretty rampant on here as well... Hell, that may well be good advice too, but it isn't what the OP was asking.

The OP didn't ask if he/she should sit out and wait but which of these schools would be best and why. Granted, this thread did not reference taking a 2x4 with rusty nails to the face as a better alternative, but I did read just that on a different thread. It's just not constructive.

JC

Coming from the perspective of the more experienced current law school students who give advice often, the entire conversation becomes sort of a 20-30 post predictable script with the prospective applicant throwing up the same arguments and eventually (as you have) moving into the literalist "well I never asked for your opinion on whether you should stay out of law school entirely!" Sometimes it is just easier to be sarcastic/blunt at the beginning to maybe shake people out of their misconceptions. I know of nobody in the real world who, when asking people for advice on two or three possible choices (this is with anything), would behave so defensively when told their assumptions that lead them to those choices were wrong and they should consider the issue from a different perspective. It's like asking "should I be taking X, Y, or Z drug," and then being told by a doctor you don't have anything wrong with you, and blankly repeating, "okay, but should I be taking X, Y, or Z drug?"

[llachans]

To be honest, I didn't read the other responses so I'm sorry if I repeat something that another poster has said.

If I were you, I'd fire off an e-mail right away to UO and negotiating some scholarship money. Leverage your other offers and it's possible they'll throw some money at you. Also, work on a really strong LOCI for Iowa or whichever other WL schools you really like (although if you squeeze in off the waitlist, it's unlikely you'll get scholarship money out of them).

Do NOT go to SU though. It might be "exciting" but you will definitely be jobless. Their employment rates are terrible.

[in2win]

OP I am in a kind of similar position except I have been admitted to a T30-40 ( Which I'm not exactly thrilled about because of the debt I would take on) . But I will have been out of school for 2 years come this fall, and I got lucky as shit finally finding a semi-decent job which at least gives me something to do. I absolutely know what you mean when you say waiting another year and retaking is not even an option that you would consider at this point. I also know what you mean when you say you are hesitant to believe that going to one of these schools will be a decision that will destroy the rest of your life.

however, don't you think you are cutting yourself short by attending one of these schools? When I was first researching law school, I was thinking just like you. I was thinking I would be happy with an average career and an average salary, and that I don't need to be super rich. but you could do so much to improve your lsat score with a whole year off. Not to mention you could add to your resume. t What if your lsat score jumps to the mid 160 range. Then you may be looking at some T1's with the same scholarship money your looking at with you T2/T3 schools.

[NoJob]

Don't go to law school unless you can nepotowork your way into a 160k job after.

[NoJob]

OP I am in a kind of similar position except I have been admitted to a T30-40 ( Which I'm not exactly thrilled about because of the debt I would take on) . But I will have been out of school for 2 years come this fall, and I got lucky as shit finally finding a semi-decent job which at least gives me something to do. I absolutely know what you mean when you say waiting another year and retaking is not even an option that you would consider at this point. I also know what you mean when you say you are hesitant to believe that going to one of these schools will be a decision that will destroy the rest of your life.

however, don't you think you are cutting yourself short by attending one of these schools? When I was first researching law school, I was thinking just like you. I was thinking I would be happy with an average career and an average salary, and that I don't need to be super rich. but you could do so much to improve your lsat score with a whole year off. Not to mention you could add to your resume. t What if your lsat score jumps to the mid 160 range. Then you may be looking at some T1's with the same scholarship money your looking at with you T2/T3 schools.

Don't give up a paying job to go to law school. You will regret it.

[legalresearch]

...

[bk1]

The OP didn't ask if he/she should sit out and wait but which of these schools would be best and why. Granted, this thread did not reference taking a 2x4 with rusty nails to the face as a better alternative, but I did read just that on a different thread. It's just not constructive.

If someone asks whether they should kill themselves with a shotgun or with pistol do you say "go with the pistol because the shotgun is less messy"? No, you tell them not to kill themselves. These schools are obviously not actual suicide, but they are financial suicide. To use a famous movie quote: when presented with schools like these at these costs, "the only winning move is not to play."

[JCFindley]

The OP didn't ask if he/she should sit out and wait but which of these schools would be best and why. Granted, this thread did not reference taking a 2x4 with rusty nails to the face as a better alternative, but I did read just that on a different thread. It's just not constructive.

If someone asks whether they should kill themselves with a shotgun or with pistol do you say "go with the pistol because the shotgun is less messy"? No, you tell them not to kill themselves. These schools are obviously not actual suicide, but they are financial suicide. To use a famous movie quote: when presented with schools like these at these costs, "the only winning move is not to play."

Fair enough..... So, should I use a shotgun or pistol?



Maybe I will go check out the Top Med Schools forum and see how that is.....

What was the name of that truck driving school Mav? Truckmasters I think it was.....

[traehekat]

JCFindley sounds like one of those people you would hear about in the "Overheard at the LSAT" thread.

[legalresearch]

bump

[minnbills]

bump

really?