4.0/163, considering retake Forum

[seancris]

So, going through the numbers and doing more research, I really like what I see at UVA. If I can reach 170, they seem to be offering great scholarships that would bring the debt down to sticker prices at Florida (which is what I'm looking at now, anyway). Considering these numbers of NLJ250 and Art III placement, it seems like a terrific opportunity to pursue.

I'm still pretty concerned about the apparent randomness of this process, though. Check out LSN 4.0/170 at UVA and you'll see a bunch of admits and scholly offers. Scroll down and you'll see a bunch of waitlists for applicants with identical numbers... and the variation between scholarships is pretty significant for applicants who have identical numbers, from 60-130k.

What accounts for the discrepancies between results of applicants with identical numbers?

BTW will my 163 hurt me in the admissions or scholarship process with any of these T14 schools if I get a better score in June or October? Imagine I have three scores, 163/167/170. Will that hurt me or will it be as if the 170 is the only one I had?

edit: Also, if I did ED to UVA or UPenn, would that mean that I would get a lower scholarship or no scholarship? It seems that if the school admits you knowing that you ED'd, they won't have any incentive to offer you $$.

[iamrobk]

So, going through the numbers and doing more research, I really like what I see at UVA. If I can reach 170, they seem to be offering great scholarships that would bring the debt down to sticker prices at Florida (which is what I'm looking at now, anyway). Considering these numbers of NLJ250 and Art III placement, it seems like a terrific opportunity to pursue.

I'm still pretty concerned about the apparent randomness of this process, though. Check out LSN 4.0/170 at UVA and you'll see a bunch of admits and scholly offers. Scroll down and you'll see a bunch of waitlists for applicants with identical numbers... and the variation between scholarships is pretty significant for applicants who have identical numbers, from 60-130k.

What accounts for the discrepancies between results of applicants with identical numbers?

BTW will my 163 hurt me in the admissions or scholarship process with any of these T14 schools if I get a better score in June or October? Imagine I have three scores, 163/167/170. Will that hurt me or will it be as if the 170 is the only one I had?

edit: Also, if I did ED to UVA or UPenn, would that mean that I would get a lower scholarship or no scholarship? It seems that if the school admits you knowing that you ED'd, they won't have any incentive to offer you $$.

The randomness probably has a lot to do with when people applied (apply early!!!), and whether they wrote an any optional essays. Beyond that... pretty much just random, and whether the adcomm likes you or not. A 163 won't really hurt. I'd suggest you write an addendum about it, but you'll be fine. ED basically means you won't get a scholarship (though Michigan has been known to give ED applicants scholarships). Unless you can't break ~166 on your retake, I wouldn't recommend EDing, but if you do, try UVA or Penn.

[seancris]

The randomness probably has a lot to do with when people applied (apply early!!)

If I take June and don't break 170, I'll want to retake in October... wouldn't it be impossible to apply "early" in that case?

[romothesavior]

If you retake and study the right way and put more time into it (3.5 weeks is not enough), you can improve considerably. I think you could improve 5 points easily, and maybe 10+ (which brings the T6 into play). Your job prospects will change completely. You owe it to yourself to really put your mind to it and improve your score.

[Tiago Splitter]

The randomness probably has a lot to do with when people applied (apply early!!)

If I take June and don't break 170, I'll want to retake in October... wouldn't it be impossible to apply "early" in that case?

No. November is still pretty early. Score a 170+, write a Why UVA and you'll be in good shape.

[TheRedMamba]

Take your test prep seriously and retake. Think about taking a class, TestMasters, powerscore etc. I know they are costly but they are a sound investment if you can bring that LSAT to 170+

If you can get a 173+ you are talking YHS, it just doesn't make sense NOT to retake

[seancris]

Do you guys think UVA would be worth sticker if it came down to it? Like if I maxed out at 167 or 168 and decided to ED. Should I take UVA at sticker or UF at 30k debt? I've already got a 60k scholly offer at Emory, which would probably increase to 90k at that point.

My wife and I have a preferrence for southern schools. Given that, schools & debt prospects could look something like this at 4.0/167 from what I can see...

Emory @ 50k

Florida @ 30k

UVA @ 170k

Duke @ 170k

What's the right choice here?

[ahnhub]

UVA ED is super-predictable, and UVA RD is super-weird if you're not a Virginia resident. They have to reserve a whole bunch of seats for in-state and they take so many people ED, that they end up WL'ing whole swaths of seemingly qualified applicants. But if you do get into UVA RD, and they like your numbers, you can get a whole bunch of $$$ (people at 1 median and just barely above the other have been getting 90K and up this cycle). Duke is more predictable, and they are fairly generous with $ too.

[spleenworship]

Don't waste a 4.0. Retake.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

politics is all about politicking. can't do that out of state. go to the flagship school of whatever state you want to be supreme ruler of.

[seancris]

Probably a dumb concern, but in high school I was dating a girl who graduated valedictorian and had great test scores. She applied to a bunch of high ranked schools for undergrad, and got rejected from most of them. Afterwards I remember that she spoke with someone from Notre Dame's admissions office in person and they candidly told her that she got dinged because she didn't have enough money. Her parents probably made a combined 60k/yr.

Does this happen for top-ranked law schools? Getting waitlisted or dinged despite having admit numbers when they see your parents' and/or your own financial statements?

[20130312]

Probably a dumb concern, but in high school I was dating a girl who graduated valedictorian and had great test scores. She applied to a bunch of high ranked schools for undergrad, and got rejected from most of them. Afterwards I remember that she spoke with someone from Notre Dame's admissions office in person and they candidly told her that she got dinged because she didn't have enough money. Her parents probably made a combined 60k/yr.

Does this happen for top-ranked law schools? Getting waitlisted or dinged despite having admit numbers when they see your parents' and/or your own financial statements?

No, because they won't usually see this stuff til after they admit you anyway. But even besides that, law schools don't do that because your loans are backed by the federal government. They don't care if you can't make the payments.

[062914123]

.

[PARTY]

whytf are you only "considering"?

[timbs4339]

politics is all about politicking. can't do that out of state. go to the flagship school of whatever state you want to be supreme ruler of.

OP is not going to be able to do this while in law school in-state either. He'll have a much better shot with a good job coming out that will give him opportunities to network.

[Perdevise]

Probably a dumb concern, but in high school I was dating a girl who graduated valedictorian and had great test scores. She applied to a bunch of high ranked schools for undergrad, and got rejected from most of them. Afterwards I remember that she spoke with someone from Notre Dame's admissions office in person and they candidly told her that she got dinged because she didn't have enough money. Her parents probably made a combined 60k/yr.

Does this happen for top-ranked law schools? Getting waitlisted or dinged despite having admit numbers when they see your parents' and/or your own financial statements?

Does this kind of thing happen? I've never heard of someone being rejected from a school for being poor. I thought elite undergrads covet poor students to increase diversity (at Harvard and Princeton, poor students get a full-ride).

[Tiago Splitter]

Does this kind of thing happen? I've never heard of someone being rejected from a school for being poor. I thought elite undergrads covet poor students to increase diversity (at Harvard and Princeton, poor students get a full-ride).

I remember USC saying that their UG admissions were 93% need blind. They have to bring in some rich people who can foot the bill for the poors.

[seancris]

Probably a dumb concern, but in high school I was dating a girl who graduated valedictorian and had great test scores. She applied to a bunch of high ranked schools for undergrad, and got rejected from most of them. Afterwards I remember that she spoke with someone from Notre Dame's admissions office in person and they candidly told her that she got dinged because she didn't have enough money. Her parents probably made a combined 60k/yr.

Does this happen for top-ranked law schools? Getting waitlisted or dinged despite having admit numbers when they see your parents' and/or your own financial statements?

Does this kind of thing happen? I've never heard of someone being rejected from a school for being poor. I thought elite undergrads covet poor students to increase diversity (at Harvard and Princeton, poor students get a full-ride).

It's hearsay. Supposedly an admissions person told her and she told everyone she knew. Wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't true which is why I prefaced it by saying it was probably a dumb concern.

Either way, if I tell my family that I'm taking a year off to shoot for T14 I'm going to be asked some questions about that.

[seancris]

My wife and I have a preferrence for southern schools. Given that, schools & debt prospects could look something like this at 4.0/167 from what I can see...

Emory @ 50k

Florida @ 30k

UVA @ 170k

Duke @ 170k

What's the right choice here?

Anyone have an opinion on this btw?

[20130312]

Either way, if I tell my family that I'm taking a year off to shoot for T14 I'm going to be asked some questions about that.

Show them Law School Transparency.

[20130312]

My wife and I have a preferrence for southern schools. Given that, schools & debt prospects could look something like this at 4.0/167 from what I can see...

Emory @ 50k

Florida @ 30k

UVA @ 170k

Duke @ 170k

What's the right choice here?

Anyone have an opinion on this btw?

1. Eliminate all but UVA/Duke
2. If one is cheaper, go there.
3. If about the same, visit both and decide with your wife which will work better.

[Tom Joad]

My wife and I have a preferrence for southern schools. Given that, schools & debt prospects could look something like this at 4.0/167 from what I can see...

Emory @ 50k

Florida @ 30k

UVA @ 170k

Duke @ 170k

What's the right choice here?

Anyone have an opinion on this btw?

1. Eliminate all but UVA/Duke
2. If one is cheaper, go there.
3. If about the same, visit both and decide with your wife which will work better.

I think I would take Florida with little debt over the lower T14 at sticker. Maybe. Tough call.

[Tiago Splitter]

My wife and I have a preferrence for southern schools. Given that, schools & debt prospects could look something like this at 4.0/167 from what I can see...

Emory @ 50k

Florida @ 30k

UVA @ 170k

Duke @ 170k

What's the right choice here?

Anyone have an opinion on this btw?

If you really only put in minimal effort for a 163, those options should represent a worst-case scenario for next cycle.

If you do end up with only a 167 you should still manage 60K or more from Vandy, which could represent the best Southern option. And Florida will always be there.

[seancris]

If you really only put in minimal effort for a 163, those options should represent a worst-case scenario for next cycle.

I [self] studied pretty damn hard for those 3 weeks. A few 10 hour days, and maybe 3 hours a day the rest of the time. I didn't have the resources that people usually rave over, though. None of the bibles or anything. Just me and 20 or so PT's, plus some free online resources. Also used a non-bible logic games book which didn't help much.

Not sure what my score potential is given all of that. I know I could improve somewhat, donno if 170 is reasonable though. Common wisdom on TLS seems to be that I can hit 167 by June and 170+ in October.

[Tom Joad]

If you really only put in minimal effort for a 163, those options should represent a worst-case scenario for next cycle.

I [self] studied pretty damn hard for those 3 weeks. A few 10 hour days, and maybe 3 hours a day the rest of the time. I didn't have the resources that people usually rave over, though. None of the bibles or anything. Just me and 20 or so PT's, plus some free online resources. Also used a non-bible logic games book which didn't help much.

Not sure what my score potential is given all of that. I think I could improve somewhat, donno if 170 is reasonable though.

You are seriously underestimating your potential. I think.