2013 Rankings Forum

[bernaldiaz]

Can someone please post Emory's stats

Are you not FSU bound anymore?

[noleknight16]

Can someone please post Emory's stats

Are you not FSU bound anymore?

More than likely I will be in Tallanasty. Waitlisted at Emory though

[BlueIris]

This article provides some pretty interesting insights to the new rankings, such as. . .

"ASU’s feat is especially curious because its (usually) closely ranked peer school, Arizona (ranked 42 last year and 43 this), has similar scores on most measures except for employment. In a year when ASU reported a large jump in employment, claiming the highest rate in the entire country, Arizona’s employment rate dropped from 89.4% to 87.4% (a couple of percentage points down like most schools). This is an odd disparity given that they are even-handed competitors in the same legal market. These results are even more peculiar when one considers that Arizona’s bar pass rate (93.7%) was much higher than ASU’s (85.9%)."

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2012/03/new- ... efeat.html

[splitsplat]

nice, that article is by a wustl professor

[R86]

[splitsplat]

Loving the Law Prof v. Law Prof debate in the comments of that article.

The professor from UNLV is getting pwned imo.

[stratocophic]

Loving the Law Prof v. Law Prof debate in the comments of that article.

The professor from UNLV is getting pwned imo.

CR. Less debate, more Tamanaha de-pantsing a TT professor who has the guts to attack the job prospects of a top 25 school while conveniently ignoring the fact that he's coming at Tamanaha from the position of a professor at a TT located in a worse legal market than St. Louis (in this context, as in any, modifying "St. Louis" with the adjective "worse" should really speak for itself). Bit of internet wisdom: when the ace up your sleeve on a message board is something along the lines of "yeah, well, what if Las Vegas having the second worst economy of all cities located within first world countries is really a GOOD thing for UNLV grads," you might want to pack up and call it a day.

Also notable, LOL at the ASU official posting as "unknown." Sure man, ASU's career services office finally figured out the fundamental principle of "just do networking bro" and boosted their placement by 10% in the midst of a legal recession that slammed every school from Cooley to Yale. For their next trick they plan to take a page out of Emory's playbook by putting out donuts, which ought to boost that employment figure all the way up to 102% for next year.

[josh43299]

Loving the Law Prof v. Law Prof debate in the comments of that article.

The professor from UNLV is getting pwned imo.

CR. Less debate, more Tamanaha de-pantsing a TT professor who has the guts to attack the job prospects of a top 25 school while conveniently ignoring the fact that he's coming at Tamanaha from the position of a professor at a TT located in a worse legal market than St. Louis (in this context, as in any, modifying "St. Louis" with the adjective "worse" should really speak for itself). Bit of internet wisdom: when the ace up your sleeve on a message board is something along the lines of "yeah, well, what if Las Vegas having the second worst economy of all cities located within first world countries is really a GOOD thing for UNLV grads," you might want to pack up and call it a day.

Also notable, LOL at the ASU official posting as "unknown." Sure man, ASU's career services office finally figured out the fundamental principle of "just do networking bro" and boosted their placement by 10% in the midst of a legal recession that slammed every school from Cooley to Yale. For their next trick they plan to take a page out of Emory's playbook by putting out donuts, which ought to boost that employment figure all the way up to 102% for next year.

You can pre-order a copy of Tamanaha's forthcoming book here:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books ... 79340.html

This should be a very interesting read....

EDIT: It is cheaper to pre-order at amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Failing-Schools-C ... 519&sr=8-1)... $15

[anewaphorist]

I've sensed a lot of bitterness from NYU grads/students who seem to think they deserve the #5 spot over Chicago (based on incoming class profile, faculty quality metrics, etc.) Anyone care to give credence to or demolish these arguments? It would seem that the only clear disadvantages NYU suffers in relation to Chicago is its large class size and position as the second-best law school in its market...(Patting myself on the back for nailing all the indefinite pronouns in that sentence.) Plus there's the unfortunate lay confusion of New York Law School with New York University School of Law.

[rad lulz]

I've sensed a lot of bitterness from NYU grads/students who seem to think they deserve the #5 spot over Chicago (based on incoming class profile, faculty quality metrics, etc.) Anyone care to give credence to or demolish these arguments? It would seem that the only clear disadvantages NYU suffers in relation to Chicago is its large class size and position as the second-best law school in its market...(Patting myself on the back for nailing all the indefinite pronouns in that sentence.) Plus there's the unfortunate lay confusion of New York Law School with New York University School of Law.

Worthwhile thread bump.

[20130312]

I've sensed a lot of bitterness from NYU grads/students who seem to think they deserve the #5 spot over Chicago (based on incoming class profile, faculty quality metrics, etc.) Anyone care to give credence to or demolish these arguments? It would seem that the only clear disadvantages NYU suffers in relation to Chicago is its large class size and position as the second-best law school in its market...(Patting myself on the back for nailing all the indefinite pronouns in that sentence.) Plus there's the unfortunate lay confusion of New York Law School with New York University School of Law.

Enjoy Chicago.

[rad lulz]

Obligatory DROVES poast.

[anewaphorist]

The point was not to tout either school but to wonder how US News distinguishes between the two, as the only factors that ostensibly separate them (see my previous post) do not seem to reflect significant differences in legal education quality but situational peculiarities largely outside NYU's control.

[rad lulz]

The point was not to tout either school but to wonder how US News distinguishes between the two, as the only factors that ostensibly separate them (see my previous post) do not seem to reflect significant differences in legal education quality.

If they don't reflect differences is education quality, why do you even care?

Also who cares about legal education quality to begin with.

[anewaphorist]

Odd that you've gone from "worthwhile post bump" to those sentiments. Worst page topper ever.

UChi has held its own over NYU these past 3 years in the arbitrary rankings, and I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on the methodology. US News has no qualms about a three-way tie for 7th place, but they've refused to do the same for the #5 spot.

Here's a thread that starts to get into students' perceptions of the respective advantages/disadvantages of the two schools: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&start=25

[flem]

Odd that you've gone from "worthwhile post bump" to those sentiments. Worst page topper ever.

UChi has held its own over NYU these past 3 years in the arbitrary rankings, and I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on the methodology. US News has no qualms about a three-way tie for 7th place, but they've refused to do the same for the #5 spot.

--ImageRemoved--

[rad lulz]

Odd that you've gone from "worthwhile post bump" to those sentiments.

Sarcasm failure breh

[banjo]

I've sensed a lot of bitterness from NYU grads/students who seem to think they deserve the #5 spot over Chicago (based on incoming class profile, faculty quality metrics, etc.) Anyone care to give credence to or demolish these arguments? It would seem that the only clear disadvantages NYU suffers in relation to Chicago is its large class size and position as the second-best law school in its market...(Patting myself on the back for nailing all the indefinite pronouns in that sentence.) Plus there's the unfortunate lay confusion of New York Law School with New York University School of Law.

I'm looking at the data someone posted earlier and Chicago has a higher peer assessment score, higher lawyer/judge assessment score, lower acceptance rate, fewer students per faculty member, and a higher GPA median. Chicago also recently adjusted the way it calculates expenditures per student (I don't know much about this -- Leiter mentioned it), contributing to the one-point lead it currently has over NYU. BPV are all tied at #7 with a score of 87, a full five points below N's 92.

[Real Madrid]

Hasn't Chicago dominated NYU recently in employment prospects? Without actually going back and looking at the NLJ placements over the last several years, I seem to remember Chicago being consistently one of the best while NYU has consistently been average among the T14 (pretty disappointing, really, considering it is in the largest legal market in the country).

Also, isn't Chicago much better for academia and clerkships?

Really the only advantages I see NYU as having over Chicago are its location in NY for big law (which hasn't helped it recently over Chicago) and its PI opportunities.

I think most people consider NYU to be like any other T14 when you leave NYC.

[09042014]

Hasn't Chicago dominated NYU recently in employment prospects? Without actually going back and looking at the NLJ placements over the last several years, I seem to remember Chicago being consistently one of the best while NYU has consistently been average among the T14 (pretty disappointing, really, considering it is in the largest legal market in the country).

Also, isn't Chicago much better for academia and clerkships?

Really the only advantages I see NYU as having over Chicago are its location in NY for big law (which hasn't helped it recently over Chicago) and its PI opportunities.

I think most people consider NYU to be like any other T14 when you leave NYC.

Tbf I think the latter is true of all of ccn. I think ccn is really only a thing at selective firms too. Why else do they destroy the t14 at v20 but don't destroy at the nlj 250.

[izy223]

Hasn't Chicago dominated NYU recently in employment prospects? Without actually going back and looking at the NLJ placements over the last several years, I seem to remember Chicago being consistently one of the best while NYU has consistently been average among the T14 (pretty disappointing, really, considering it is in the largest legal market in the country).

Also, isn't Chicago much better for academia and clerkships?

Really the only advantages I see NYU as having over Chicago are its location in NY for big law (which hasn't helped it recently over Chicago) and its PI opportunities.

I think most people consider NYU to be like any other T14 when you leave NYC.

according to their defense of their standing in the ratings http://www.law.nyu.edu/news/REBUTTAL the NLJ rankings are "skewed" against NYU

IMO they make a great point and it fits with their employment statistics and their LST score, but it could just be myself rationalizing my choice to go to NYU

[Tiago Splitter]

Hasn't Chicago dominated NYU recently in employment prospects? Without actually going back and looking at the NLJ placements over the last several years, I seem to remember Chicago being consistently one of the best while NYU has consistently been average among the T14 (pretty disappointing, really, considering it is in the largest legal market in the country).

Also, isn't Chicago much better for academia and clerkships?

Really the only advantages I see NYU as having over Chicago are its location in NY for big law (which hasn't helped it recently over Chicago) and its PI opportunities.

I think most people consider NYU to be like any other T14 when you leave NYC.

Tbf I think the latter is true of all of ccn. I think ccn is really only a thing at selective firms too. Why else do they destroy the t14 at v20 but don't destroy at the nlj 250.

They certainly have a leg up on the T14 in 100+ attorney firm hiring and Fed Clerkships if Rayiner's employment thread is to be believed. CCN average is 72%, Penn through Georgetown average is 61% for 2010. And that was with Cornell's steroid-enhanced 81% figure.

[lawyerwannabe]

Hasn't Chicago dominated NYU recently in employment prospects? Without actually going back and looking at the NLJ placements over the last several years, I seem to remember Chicago being consistently one of the best while NYU has consistently been average among the T14 (pretty disappointing, really, considering it is in the largest legal market in the country).

Also, isn't Chicago much better for academia and clerkships?

Really the only advantages I see NYU as having over Chicago are its location in NY for big law (which hasn't helped it recently over Chicago) and its PI opportunities.

I think most people consider NYU to be like any other T14 when you leave NYC.

Tbf I think the latter is true of all of ccn. I think ccn is really only a thing at selective firms too. Why else do they destroy the t14 at v20 but don't destroy at the nlj 250.

They certainly have a leg up on the T14 in 100+ attorney firm hiring and Fed Clerkships if Rayiner's employment thread is to be believed. CCN average is 72%, Penn through Georgetown average is 61% for 2010. And that was with Cornell's steroid-enhanced 81% figure.

CCN has an advantage in federal clerkships? Haven't seen any data saying that . . .

[Tiago Splitter]

CCN has an advantage in federal clerkships? Haven't seen any data saying that . . .

Nah just the total of large firm hiring and Fed clerkships.

[lawyerwannabe]

CCN has an advantage in federal clerkships? Haven't seen any data saying that . . .

Nah just the total of large firm hiring and Fed clerkships.

So, just large firm hiring.