Wash U Law in St Louis with full ride or Michigan with no $? Forum

[LetusgothenyouandI]

Hey all,

I want to appeal to the collective wisdom of the masses. I have just received a full tuition scholarship from Washington University School of Law in St. Louis. Living costs are still mine to cover. I also got into Michigan, with no money yet forthcoming. Which school would you choose to go to in these circumstances:

1. I want (eventually) to land on the east coast, probably DC, but need to get away for law school.
2. I am interested in criminal law, and/or international law, esp in regards to criminal courts, human rights, and other 'public' law
3. I am mildly debt adverse, but not majorly. I do want to be able to get a job post law school (surprise!) and am interested in practicing the above, or working abroad or for the government.

Any ideas? Anything I should consider?

I haven't gotten a chance to visit either school yet, and frankly, I don't know if I am going to be able to- leaving in less than a month to work abroad for six months.

Let me know, and thanks in advance!

PS. I also got into Duke, and UCLA with $20,000 per year. Good options too?

[Killingly]

Can't help you, but also interested. 84k at WUSTL vs. Mich at sticker. Want East Cost.

Is your user name a TS Eliot reference?

[bk1]

I think that WUSTL is clearly the far less risky choice, but since you want east coast I don't think you have a choice. If it were GW/Fordham/BU/BC with a full ride I think it would be different. (Unless you are willing to settle for the midwest.)

UCLA is automatically out. WUSTL too because of above. If Duke/UMich are roughly the same price then pick your preference. That's my opinion.

[LetusgothenyouandI]

Wash U 'claims' to be a national school- do you not think this is true? And I am leaning to Michigan over Duke. All Duke has over Michigan in my mind is the weather.

Yes, my name is Prufrock related. Love that poem.

[tmon]

The Law School Transparency geographic breakdown tends to support that WUSTL students end up all over the country, but that might not speak to the school's ability to place them there so much as students coming from other areas and self-selecting into those regions. Michigan has significantly better placement, but if you're risk and debt-averse and willing to potentially settle with the midwest if your goals don't quite work out then WUSTL's a pretty good option.

[Bronck]

Wash U 'claims' to be a national school- do you not think this is true? And I am leaning to Michigan over Duke. All Duke has over Michigan in my mind is the weather.

Yes, my name is Prufrock related. Love that poem.

No. If you go to WUSTL, you'd have to be okay with the idea of ending up in the Midwest. I'd take Michigan over Duke at equal cost.

[checkster]

Visiting WUSTL will make this decision so much harder, such a cool campus.

Oh, wait...the other choice is Michigan...

#BeautifulSchools.

[wiscohopeful]

Go to Wash U for free 1L year and transfer in to Michigan thus saving you significant monies. JK, go to Mich if you want east coast...

[romothesavior]

First, you need to realize that doing "international law" that involves criminal courts, human rights, etc. is going to be almost impossible from any of these schools. When you say criminal law, do you mean public defender? Prosecutor? Private practice? Federal/local? Need more info on this.

If you were thinking about biglaw on the east coast, then I think I'd lean towards Michigan. You will have much better odds of that happening there. But given that you want to do criminal law, I think having a full ride to WUSTL isn't a bad choice. Your school choice will matter a lot less for criminal work (unless you're talking like DOJ or federal PD, which aren't really hiring anyways). I think I (we) need a little more info on your goals.

[goldenboy8784]

I'd lean towards Duke if you want to work in D.C. It's got the stronger reputation in the Mid-Atlantic for sure. What attracts you specifically towards Michigan? I would throw out WUSTL at this point.

[Crowing]

I'm a 0L myself so I can't really comment on future prospects, but I have worked and done research at the WUSTL campus and have a friend with pretty much your exact numbers there as a 1L this year.

All I really have to add is that it's a nice campus and West County STL is actually a really good place to live. Saint Louis tends to be known by out of towners as a fairly cliquey sort of city though, so you might want to keep that in mind.

Random note: Prufrock is my favorite poem; I'm still waiting on decisions from both Michigan and WUSTL so really you should just wait until I make my decision and then go to the same school!

[shastaca]

I know a WashU grad who had no problem with bar, upper tier graduate, who is now working a volunteer job in hopes that it will turn into a real job. My conversation with him is that the money wasn't worth it at this point.

Though maybe the grass is greener. He's got loans for living expenses to pay but no tuition loans so he is better off than many anyway. Longer term who knows...

If you had no interest in the midwest then why did you apply anyway?

I'd take Duke of Michigan if I were you for DC. Both schools are comparable quality but you can get to DC in a morning's ride from Duke. Location does matter.

[john1990]

WUSTL has a poor salary breakdown.

--LinkRemoved--

[bk1]

WUSTL has a poor salary breakdown.

--LinkRemoved--

It's not really poor. 45% of the class making 6 figures or in A3 clerkship seems pretty damn good to me. Granted it is clearly worse than UMich. However, the most important caveat is that it's really old (class of 2009 who OCI'ed in 2007).

[romothesavior]

WUSTL has a poor salary breakdown.

--LinkRemoved--

It's not really poor. 45% of the class making 6 figures or in A3 clerkship seems pretty damn good to me. Granted it is clearly worse than UMich. However, the most important caveat is that it's really old (class of 2009 who OCI'ed in 2007).

Yeah, the data for the past few classes will be terribad. But I think things have improved marginally for my class. Seems like maybe a third of the class or more has a firm gig that will at least have a chance to lead to permanent employment. Others have fed jobs, local government, etc. There are still a ton of unemployed people frantically searching, but I see our NLJ numbers being around 20+% for my class unless the economy dips again. Unfortunately, our AIII numbers are terrible. And our massive transfer class probably knocks our NLJ numbers down a few percentiles every year.

A full ride here wouldn't be a bad choice. I know multiple people going to biglaw in D.C. and NYC, and we have great clinical programs in both cities. But I still think Michigan is better for your geographic goals.

[LetusgothenyouandI]

UPDATE!!

So, I just got 15K a year from Michigan. I think my choice is clearer now.

I visited Wash U last week, and loved the campus, St. Louis felt like Chicago (a city I adore!) and the people seemed really nice and encouraging. That said... the students didn't seem like the sharpest knives in the drawer. Smart, yes. Ambitious, witty and full of initiative... no. Maybe that's rude of me, but that's the impression I got.

I visit Michigan next week. Hopefully I'll like the area just as well! I'm a city girl, and being in Ann Arbor might be hard. Can anyone speak to being in Ann Arbor after being in a big city? Is it an okay transition?

Do I seem crazy for making the Michigan choice over a full ride at Wash U? Also, I got into Gtown, GW, Duke, UCLA and BU. Just so you know....

[romothesavior]

I visited Wash U last week, and loved the campus, St. Louis felt like Chicago (a city I adore!) and the people seemed really nice and encouraging. That said... the students didn't seem like the sharpest knives in the drawer. Smart, yes. Ambitious, witty and full of initiative... no. Maybe that's rude of me, but that's the impression I got.

lol

[rad lulz]

Wash U 'claims' to be a national school- do you not think this is true? And I am leaning to Michigan over Duke. All Duke has over Michigan in my mind is the weather.

Yes, my name is Prufrock related. Love that poem.

No. If you go to WUSTL, you'd have to be okay with the idea of ending up in the Midwest. I'd take Michigan over Duke at equal cost.

It's actually more likely you'll get a job back where you're from than in the Midwest from WUSTL, considering STL, KC, Indy, etc. are VERY parochial.

[Kabuo]

I visited Wash U last week, and loved the campus, St. Louis felt like Chicago (a city I adore!) and the people seemed really nice and encouraging. That said... the students didn't seem like the sharpest knives in the drawer. Smart, yes. Ambitious, witty and full of initiative... no. Maybe that's rude of me, but that's the impression I got.

lol

Would love to hear more about this.

[traehekat]

I visited Wash U last week, and loved the campus, St. Louis felt like Chicago (a city I adore!) and the people seemed really nice and encouraging. That said... the students didn't seem like the sharpest knives in the drawer. Smart, yes. Ambitious, witty and full of initiative... no. Maybe that's rude of me, but that's the impression I got.

lol

also lol'd.

btw, OP you got into georgetown and want DC but for some reason GULC isn't seriously on the table as an option? my gut tells me i would still go with michigan, but if i were you i would want to hear some other people's opinions on that one.

[Robespierre]

I had voted WashU on the ground that ~$135K outweighs Michigan's job placement advantages. But now that the money gap is down to about $90K, I think Mich may take it. Also, I failed to notice that what you really want is (as you put it) "public law," so LRAP might reduce the debt burden as well. So scratch one WashU vote and move me to Mich.

And yeah, please tell us more about your impression of WashU students.

[checkster]

As someone who knows a loooooot (lot, not loot) of WUSTL students, I can see how you could get that impression. Smart people for sure, but the unambitious vibe probably stems from being the big fishes in a relatively small pond. I wouldn't let that initial impression factor in too much, its a pretty cool student body, both in the law school and throughout the university.

Plus its fucking gorgeous.

But I'd still take Michigan.

[rad lulz]

.

[romothesavior]

I visited Wash U last week, and loved the campus, St. Louis felt like Chicago (a city I adore!) and the people seemed really nice and encouraging. That said... the students didn't seem like the sharpest knives in the drawer. Smart, yes. Ambitious, witty and full of initiative... no. Maybe that's rude of me, but that's the impression I got.

lol

Sounds like OP wants to chill with insufferable striver douches.

He needs MOAR RIGOR

[keg411]

I visited Wash U last week, and loved the campus, St. Louis felt like Chicago (a city I adore!) and the people seemed really nice and encouraging. That said... the students didn't seem like the sharpest knives in the drawer. Smart, yes. Ambitious, witty and full of initiative... no. Maybe that's rude of me, but that's the impression I got.

lol

Sounds like OP wants to chill with insufferable striver douches.

LOL, I go to Mich and I generally sound/act like a total idiot. So maybe OP shouldn't go here either.