Wake vs OSU Forum

[TopSider11]

Scholarships at both schools make COA about the same (1/2 tuition at both). Originally from Cleveland area and go to school in southern Ohio. I've already been fortunate enough to do some clerking (mostly grunt work and filing) for two NLJ 250 firms during my undergrad and while nothing is guaranteed, the connections I've made at this firm will hopefully be helpful in my job search after graduation. That being said I want biglaw (who doesnt right?) and I'm just wondering if I would be crazy to take Wake over OSU? Ive read all the numbers and I know traditional knowledge says I should take OSU, but I've always loved Wake and I think I would embrace being there more than I would OSU. I also wouldnt mind working in NC for awhile after graduation. Thanks for the help and hopefully this will make my decision easier!

[ndirish2010]

I could see why Wake wouldn't be a bad idea. Because you are from Cleveland, that market won't be closed off to you whether you go to OSU or Wake (though people in the region will probably think better of OSU, you still have the ties). Wake would open up another region possibly (though people will question when you have been in Ohio your whole life why you are moving to NC). It's tough, I would probably go with OSU in your situation (that is, if you don't want to retake and try for a midwest T25 or a T14), but go to whichever one you like more.

[TopSider11]

I could see why Wake wouldn't be a bad idea. Because you are from Cleveland, that market won't be closed off to you whether you go to OSU or Wake (though people in the region will probably think better of OSU, you still have the ties). Wake would open up another region possibly (though people will question when you have been in Ohio your whole life why you are moving to NC). It's tough, I would probably go with OSU in your situation (that is, if you don't want to retake and try for a midwest T25 or a T14), but go to whichever one you like more.

Full disclosure: I'm also waiting on the ND waitlist and praying that I get in with a small scholarship that makes it more reasonable to go there and incur a little more debt.

I'm also curious what most people think of when they think of either school. I know with OSU its mostly football and sports but I'm not really sure what the common persons thoughts of Wake are? This doesn't really matter just more of a curiosity

[ndirish2010]

I love Wake Forest. Been there several times and it is one of my favorite campuses. However, I don't sense that it has much lay prestige here in the Midwest. OSU definitely has more.

[TopSider11]

I love Wake Forest. Been there several times and it is one of my favorite campuses. However, I don't sense that it has much lay prestige here in the Midwest. OSU definitely has more.

Totally agree with that, most people usually nod when I say I'm thinking about Wake Forest kind of like "I have no idea what you're talking about but you mentioned OSU so that must be good too"

[lifestooquick]

I am a 1L at OSU. I would say come here, but am obviously biased If you want Ohio biglaw, OSU is hands down the best choice. In NC, you'd likely have competition from Duke...in Ohio there is no competition for Ohio State.

I'm happy to answer any questions about OSU!

[TopSider11]

I am a 1L at OSU. I would say come here, but am obviously biased If you want Ohio biglaw, OSU is hands down the best choice. In NC, you'd likely have competition from Duke...in Ohio there is no competition for Ohio State.

I'm happy to answer any questions about OSU!

^This point is what keeps hanging me up on leaving Ohio! I'm just wondering if I would be able to keep my connections in NE Ohio while giving myself more options by having the NC market opened to me! I will be PMing you a couple questions that hopefully will make this easier!

[20130312]

I am a 1L at OSU. I would say come here, but am obviously biased If you want Ohio biglaw, OSU any T-14 as long as you have ties is hands down the best choice. In NC, you'd likely have competition from Duke...in Ohio there is no competition for Ohio State.

I'm happy to answer any questions about OSU!

FTFY

[lifestooquick]

I am a 1L at OSU. I would say come here, but am obviously biased If you want Ohio biglaw, OSU any T-14 as long as you have ties is hands down the best choice. In NC, you'd likely have competition from Duke...in Ohio there is no competition for Ohio State.

I'm happy to answer any questions about OSU!

FTFY

Well obviously, but we're not talking about that level. Once you're outside of the that though, OSU is the best choice. You still have to kickass at OSU to get Ohio biglaw.

[romothesavior]

Scholarships at both schools make COA about the same (1/2 tuition at both). Originally from Cleveland area and go to school in southern Ohio. I've already been fortunate enough to do some clerking (mostly grunt work and filing) for two NLJ 250 firms during my undergrad and while nothing is guaranteed, the connections I've made at this firm will hopefully be helpful in my job search after graduation. That being said I want biglaw (who doesnt right?) and I'm just wondering if I would be crazy to take Wake over OSU? Ive read all the numbers and I know traditional knowledge says I should take OSU, but I've always loved Wake and I think I would embrace being there more than I would OSU. I also wouldnt mind working in NC for awhile after graduation. Thanks for the help and hopefully this will make my decision easier!

If you're from Ohio this is a no-brainer. OSU easily.

[cylon_clone]

I am a 1L at OSU. I would say come here, but am obviously biased If you want Ohio biglaw, OSU is hands down the best choice. In NC, you'd likely have competition from Duke...in Ohio there is no competition for Ohio State.

I'm happy to answer any questions about OSU!

Don't forget competition from UNC as well. You're looking at Wake Forest, the 3rd best school in a relatively small market. Admittedly, the majority of Duke students will probably self-select out of the state to go to bigger markets. That still leaves UNC grads - which has a lot of students with local ties and plans to stay in-state.

In the whole state of Ohio, OSU reigns supreme - Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, etc. It's nearly impossible to live in Ohio for more than a few years and not meet someone who has gone or has kids at Ohio State.

The midwest market sucks, but with your ties, you shouldn't have too much trouble. And IMO, Columbus the best and most liveable major city in Ohio.

*disclosure: I'm from Ohio. I didn't apply to OSU and it is not my undergrad. I may decide to attend Duke.

[cdelgado]

I am a 1L at OSU. I would say come here, but am obviously biased If you want Ohio biglaw, OSU is hands down the best choice. In NC, you'd likely have competition from Duke...in Ohio there is no competition for Ohio State.

I'm happy to answer any questions about OSU!

Don't forget competition from UNC as well. You're looking at Wake Forest, the 3rd best school in a relatively small market. Admittedly, the majority of Duke students will probably self-select out of the state to go to bigger markets. That still leaves UNC grads - which has a lot of students with local ties and plans to stay in-state.

In the whole state of Ohio, OSU reigns supreme - Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, etc. It's nearly impossible to live in Ohio for more than a few years and not meet someone who has gone or has kids at Ohio State.

The midwest market sucks, but with your ties, you shouldn't have too much trouble. And IMO, Columbus the best and most liveable major city in Ohio.

*disclosure: I'm from Ohio. I didn't apply to OSU and it is not my undergrad. I may decide to attend Duke.

I wouldn't consider "supreme" empirical. OSU is the highest ranked school in the state but each respective market has their own school (CWRU, UC) and it would be worthwhile to extensively research hiring in those cities should you want to locate there. OSU is not necessarily a slam dunk in all Ohio markets.

I am slightly biased toward this situation as I am not considering OSU and have done research on this subject FWIW.

[Gail]

I am a 1L at OSU. I would say come here, but am obviously biased If you want Ohio biglaw, OSU is hands down the best choice. In NC, you'd likely have competition from Duke...in Ohio there is no competition for Ohio State.

I'm happy to answer any questions about OSU!

Not a lot of people in Duke want Carolina. UNC is higher ranked than WF, but they're peer schools with Wake placing slightly better in NLJ250 and A3 (not a lot, but better).

[TopSider11]

General consensus seems to be then that I need to decide where I want to live in 3 years and then depending on that answer I have my decision. In a perfect world I could just spend 3 years in the Carolina weather watching ACC basketball and still have all my options but I dont think that is very realistic.

[romothesavior]

General consensus seems to be then that I need to decide where I want to live in 3 years and then depending on that answer I have my decision. In a perfect world I could just spend 3 years in the Carolina weather watching ACC basketball and still have all my options but I dont think that is very realistic.

I think relocating to the Carolinas for LS is a bad idea if you don't have strong ties there. Very insular market, by most accounts, and you have competition from UNC.

[Gail]

General consensus seems to be then that I need to decide where I want to live in 3 years and then depending on that answer I have my decision. In a perfect world I could just spend 3 years in the Carolina weather watching ACC basketball and still have all my options but I dont think that is very realistic.

I think relocating to the Carolinas for LS is a bad idea if you don't have strong ties there. Very insular market, by most accounts, and you have competition from UNC.

That's the one thing kind of holding me back/making me nervous, even despite the $$$$. But I've heard different things from some Wake students. Both that ties are very important and that they won't preclude you from a job if you have good grades. The majority of Wake students come from out of state (I think). It would seem to make sense that not just the Wake students from NC are getting jobs.


I do see your point though.

[blackandyellow]

Both schools are peer schools. Wake places primarly in the SE corner while OSU places mainly in Ohio. OSU has competition with Case in Cleveland and Ucinci in Cincinasty. I think Case does better in Cleveland and Cinci does better in cincinatti. OSU's strength is that it placeswell in Columbus and ok in both Cleveland and Cincinasty. Case doesn't really place anyone in Cinci and Cinci doesn't really place anyone in Cleveland.

However with that said, I think you need to be in the top 1/3 to have a chance at getting a decent midlaw/biglaw job. Prob top 20% to have a good chance.

[PirateCap'n]

General consensus seems to be then that I need to decide where I want to live in 3 years and then depending on that answer I have my decision. In a perfect world I could just spend 3 years in the Carolina weather watching ACC basketball and still have all my options but I dont think that is very realistic.

I think relocating to the Carolinas for LS is a bad idea if you don't have strong ties there. Very insular market, by most accounts, and you have competition from UNC.

That's the one thing kind of holding me back/making me nervous, even despite the $$$$. But I've heard different things from some Wake students. Both that ties are very important and that they won't preclude you from a job if you have good grades. The majority of Wake students come from out of state (I think). It would seem to make sense that not just the Wake students from NC are getting jobs.


I do see your point though.

By far, the majority of the students at Wake are from out of state. For the class of 2013, the breakdown is 70% out of state and 30% in-state (or at least it was when we began last year).

[romothesavior]

If you relocate for law school and get great grades, you'll probably find a job in the new region or back home where you came from. But what if you don't get great grades? These are the people who are most affected by moving somewhere else. It becomes a lot harder if you have medianish grades and aren't from the area, plus you left your home state where you have all your ties.

Going to law school in a place you aren't from isn't like a torpedo on your job prospects, but it does put you in a much tougher situation.

[TopSider11]

Both schools are peer schools. Wake places primarly in the SE corner while OSU places mainly in Ohio. OSU has competition with Case in Cleveland and Ucinci in Cincinasty. I think Case does better in Cleveland and Cinci does better in cincinatti. OSU's strength is that it placeswell in Columbus and ok in both Cleveland and Cincinasty. Case doesn't really place anyone in Cinci and Cinci doesn't really place anyone in Cleveland.

However with that said, I think you need to be in the top 1/3 to have a chance at getting a decent midlaw/biglaw job. Prob top 20% to have a good chance.

Can anyone verify the Case > OSU and UC> OSU in their respective markets? I was under the impression that OSU was the very best in all markets of Ohio (excluding t14 self selectors)

[cinephile]

Both schools are peer schools. Wake places primarly in the SE corner while OSU places mainly in Ohio. OSU has competition with Case in Cleveland and Ucinci in Cincinasty. I think Case does better in Cleveland and Cinci does better in cincinatti. OSU's strength is that it placeswell in Columbus and ok in both Cleveland and Cincinasty. Case doesn't really place anyone in Cinci and Cinci doesn't really place anyone in Cleveland.

However with that said, I think you need to be in the top 1/3 to have a chance at getting a decent midlaw/biglaw job. Prob top 20% to have a good chance.

Can anyone verify the Case > OSU and UC> OSU in their respective markets? I was under the impression that OSU was the very best in all markets of Ohio (excluding t14 self selectors)

Look at the websites for the top firms in each market. Maybe the page with the partners isn't so relevant as schools/ranking has changed in importance over the years, but normally there's a SA page that shows who their most recent 2Ls were and what schools they came from.

[cdelgado]

Both schools are peer schools. Wake places primarly in the SE corner while OSU places mainly in Ohio. OSU has competition with Case in Cleveland and Ucinci in Cincinasty. I think Case does better in Cleveland and Cinci does better in cincinatti. OSU's strength is that it placeswell in Columbus and ok in both Cleveland and Cincinasty. Case doesn't really place anyone in Cinci and Cinci doesn't really place anyone in Cleveland.

However with that said, I think you need to be in the top 1/3 to have a chance at getting a decent midlaw/biglaw job. Prob top 20% to have a good chance.

Can anyone verify the Case > OSU and UC> OSU in their respective markets? I was under the impression that OSU was the very best in all markets of Ohio (excluding t14 self selectors)

You certainly need to look into this. OSU is not necessarily the top in all Ohio markets. Columbus yes and state government yes but from my research UC and Case grads are more prominent in Cincinnati and Cleveland respectively compared to OSU.

[romothesavior]

Not all that familiar with the Ohio market, but I would be surprised if that were true. It is possible that Case places more people into Cleveland and UC places more people into Cinncy, but what does that tell you? Not much, because self-selection and limited opportunities are causing Case and Cinncy students to stay.

To use an example I am familiar with, it's like when people say SLU is better than WUSTL for STL biglaw. That's silly. Yes, SLU does about the same in terms of raw numbers per firm. But that doesn't tell you much. The best that a SLU student can hope for is a biglaw job in STL, whereas the top of our classes head to places like NYC, Chicago, D.C., etc. Most don't even want St. Louis biglaw. You can get STL biglaw from WUSTL with top 1/3 grades, whereas you're going to need top 10% to even have a shot from SLU.

I imagine (although I cannot say with much certainty) that this could be the case with these Ohio schools too. It's not like Case students even have much opportunity to leave the city, and almost certainly not the state. Definitely keep self-selection and limited opportunities biases in mind when comparing schools, especially if you are just doing a count of alumni at firms. If a Cleveland firm is willing to dip further down into OSU's class for hiring than they would at Case, then it makes no sense to say Case has better job prospects in the city than tOSU.

[TopSider11]

Not all that familiar with the Ohio market, but I would be surprised if that were true. It is possible that Case places more people into Cleveland and UC places more people into Cinncy, but what does that tell you? Not much, because self-selection and limited opportunities are causing Case and Cinncy students to stay.

To use an example I am familiar with, it's like when people say SLU is better than WUSTL for STL biglaw. That's silly. Yes, SLU does about the same in terms of raw numbers per firm. But that doesn't tell you much. The best that a SLU student can hope for is a biglaw job in STL, whereas the top of our classes head to places like NYC, Chicago, D.C., etc. Most don't even want St. Louis biglaw. You can get STL biglaw from WUSTL with top 1/3 grades, whereas you're going to need top 10% to even have a shot from SLU.

I imagine (although I cannot say with much certainty) that this could be the case with these Ohio schools too. It's not like Case students even have much opportunity to leave the city, and almost certainly not the state. Definitely keep self-selection and limited opportunities biases in mind when comparing schools, especially if you are just doing a count of alumni at firms. If a Cleveland firm is willing to dip further down into OSU's class for hiring than they would at Case, then it makes no sense to say Case has better job prospects in the city than tOSU.

This makes a lot of sense. I also would assume with Case and UC the perpetuation of their grads being limited to the city limits (in most cases) have also made the alumni base stronger there thus helping to offset the advantage that OSU students may have in the rankings. This being said I think all this talk has really helped me decide that OSU might be my best option and as beautiful as Wake is, law school is an investment and needs to be treated as such