Mich or Penn?? Forum

JDizzle2015 · Post by **JDizzle2015** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:58 pm

I love everything about UMich (especially summer start) but Mich's NALP data from 2010 scares the crap out of me. I'd like to go into nonprofit after law school in NY or LA (strong ties in LA) but I'd also like to be able to pay back my loans. Thoughts?

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:11 pm

JDizzle2015 wrote:I love everything about UMich (especially summer start) but Mich's NALP data from 2010 scares the crap out of me. I'd like to go into nonprofit after law school in NY or LA (strong ties in LA) but I'd also like to be able to pay back my loans. Thoughts?

You should wait to decide until you hear back about money since I think that's probably the biggest deciding factor between M and P. All things being equal, do you prefer Ann Arbor or Philly? I don't think the placement difference is big enough or consistent enough year to year to be the deciding factor.

AreJay711 · Post by **AreJay711** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:15 pm

I'm biased but I think Mich is at least equal if not better for you goals than Penn because of better California and non-profit placement. Also, the LRAP is pretty baller so it isn't like you have to be super worried about whether you can off your loans (as long as you accept lower middle class income for 10 years). I'd also doubt that all of the difference is based on placement power. It could be a lot of things from PI interest to poor bidding. For instance, I know I'm going to be living dangerous when I waste all my bids on DC and TX with median grades and I have a friend trying to work in Maine which has like 6 NLJ250 job openings a year.

But obviously:

Nelson wrote: You probably need to wait until you hear back about money since I think that's probably the biggest deciding factor between M and P.

thelaststraw05 · Post by **thelaststraw05** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:16 pm

If you are committed to doing non-profit work, read these two pages and then decide where to go:

--LinkRemoved--

http://www.law.upenn.edu/cpp/alumni/pub ... t/tollrap/

ConfidenceMan2 · Post by **ConfidenceMan2** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:19 pm

Nelson wrote:
JDizzle2015 wrote:I love everything about UMich (especially summer start) but Mich's NALP data from 2010 scares the crap out of me. I'd like to go into nonprofit after law school in NY or LA (strong ties in LA) but I'd also like to be able to pay back my loans. Thoughts?
You probably need to wait until you hear back about money since I think that's probably the biggest deciding factor between M and P.

Question: if his passion is PI, and both schools have great LRAPs (which I believe is definitely the case here), how big of a deal is money (assuming that it's not like a half or full ride situation)? Wouldn't the repayment be roughly the same using LRAP? Or am I thinking of this the wrong way (I'm assuming 100 or so dollars/month is not a game-changing amount, which is debatable)?

Of course, following the money is still wise, as you never know what kind of employment you're going to wind up taking.

crazyblink653 · Post by **crazyblink653** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:20 pm

don't know much about Penn, but Michigan has a pretty big PI contingent, plus a lot of resources devoted to helping students who want PI get it and pay for it.

thelaststraw05 · Post by **thelaststraw05** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:22 pm

thelaststraw05 wrote:If you are committed to doing non-profit work, read these two pages and then decide where to go:

--LinkRemoved--

http://www.law.upenn.edu/cpp/alumni/pub ... t/tollrap/

Penn's program you have to start making contributions once you cross $45,000.

Michigan's program you don't have to start making contributions until you pass GS-11 pay ($50,287).

Looking at it, I think Michigan's program is slightly more favorable, but I'm biased.

iamrobk · Post by **iamrobk** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:26 pm

From what I've heard, Penn's LRAP isn't very good, and PI isn't a huge deal there (though it seems they're trying to change that). That said, overall job prospects from Penn are better.

JDizzle2015 · Post by **JDizzle2015** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:53 pm

This has been very helpful. Thanks! It makes sense that I should wait for scholarships but I'll likely have to pay sticker at both since I'm a very boarderline admit for both schools (weak-splitter).

So the general consensus is that Mich has a small edge when it comes to PI/nonprofit?

03121202698008 · Post by **03121202698008** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:58 pm

JDizzle2015 wrote:This has been very helpful. Thanks! It makes sense that I should wait for scholarships but I'll likely have to pay sticker at both since I'm a very boarderline admit for both schools (weak-splitter).

So the general consensus is that Mich has a small edge when it comes to PI?

I'm biased but I think our edge is actually pretty large. We have a huge PI community, a long tradition of PI and our grads go allover the US, which leads to lots of contacts, and our LRAP is top-notch which you should definitely be concerned about. (It's even structured to fit in with the PSLF and as a loan-forgiveness so you don't get stuck with paying taxes on it...some aren't.)

keg411 · Post by **keg411** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:48 pm

blowhard wrote:
JDizzle2015 wrote:This has been very helpful. Thanks! It makes sense that I should wait for scholarships but I'll likely have to pay sticker at both since I'm a very boarderline admit for both schools (weak-splitter).

So the general consensus is that Mich has a small edge when it comes to PI?
I'm biased but I think our edge is actually pretty large. We have a huge PI community, a long tradition of PI and our grads go allover the US, which leads to lots of contacts, and our LRAP is top-notch which you should definitely be concerned about. (It's even structured to fit in with the PSLF and as a loan-forgiveness so you don't get stuck with paying taxes on it...some aren't.)

Also, Michigan's LRAP includes ALL legal jobs and not just PI jobs. OP, I know you're PI, but figured I'd point that out to people looking at LRAP's reading this thread.

However, you should probably also visit the schools and go to the ASW's if possible before making a decision and asking a lot of questions.

JustE · Post by **JustE** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:51 pm

I'm not sure if this point has been made yet, but:

--ImageRemoved--

justicefishy · Post by **justicefishy** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:09 pm

Academically, they're about even. If I got into either I would be ecstatic. At the same time, as great as Michigan looks, place is cold, yo. Also, I know a great dim sun place in Philly and I love the city.

HeavenWood · Post by **HeavenWood** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:21 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
Nelson wrote: You probably need to wait until you hear back about money since I think that's probably the biggest deciding factor between M and P.

r6_philly · Post by **r6_philly** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:32 pm

My sense is Penn doesn't seem to be as PI focused because of the better private sector job prospects: people self-select into Penn to work in private sector. There are a lot of really really nice and positive programs that do a lot for the community, but many of us who participate will enter private sector after graduation. Personally, I wouldn't necessarily choose a school because of one has a bigger PI following because both has pros. Having a lot of people in private practice means valuable resources down the road. If you work to the leadership of a non-profit, you will have to call up people to raise funds - and if 50% of your class are all partners ... well you get what I am saying. I worked in non-profits for better half of a decade, I wish I had some well-off law firm friends then.

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