gap between HYS and CCN Forum

[1988AndX]

Some people on TLS often group HYS with CCN (HYSCCN), while others claim that there is a bigger gap between HYS and CCN than between any other groups within T14. Is there a gap between HYS and CCN, if so, how big?

[Jasper21]

What is CCN

[bernaldiaz]

What is CCN

Columbia, Chicago, NYU

[Transferthrowaway]

Columbia, Chicago, NYU

What is that?

[Jasper21]

There is a gap. I was told by my pre law advisor that within the T14, the schools are grouped according to their inner "tier." so HLS, YLS, and SLS are in a league of their own. CCN is not close to this first tier that I mentioned.

[JamMasterJ]

You're all wrong. HTH
The difference between the two subtiers is not that big at all.

[Mal Reynolds]

You're all wrong. HTH
The difference between the two subtiers is not that big at all.

Care to clarify? Where does the difference come in? I always thought a student below median at HYS (whatever that means or even if you can tell based on grades) was in a much better position than a student below median at CCN.

[JamMasterJ]

You're all wrong. HTH
The difference between the two subtiers is not that big at all.

Care to clarify? Where does the difference come in? I always thought a student below median at HYS (whatever that means or even if you can tell based on grades) was in a much better position than a student below median at CCN.

I dunno. There is definitely a difference. But it's not that big. Below median students at CC can get decent jobs, but yeah, they probably don't go as deep as HYS.

[Bronte]

There is a gap. I was told by my pre law advisor that within the T14, the schools are grouped according to their inner "tier." so HLS, YLS, and SLS are in a league of their own. CCN is not close to this first tier that I mentioned.

Lol, only prelaw adviser in the world that is aware of "T14," subtiers, or job prospects in general?

[JamMasterJ]

mostly just butthurt that HYS won't let me in though

[JamMasterJ]

There is a gap. I was told by my pre law advisor that within the T14, the schools are grouped according to their inner "tier." so HLS, YLS, and SLS are in a league of their own. CCN is not close to this first tier that I mentioned.

Lol, only prelaw adviser in the world that is aware of "T14," subtiers, or job prospects in general?

credited. Most prelaw advisers have no clue.

[Jasper21]

My advisor graduated from Penn 2008 and he was was waitlisted at YLS

[Mal Reynolds]

There is a gap. I was told by my pre law advisor that within the T14, the schools are grouped according to their inner "tier." so HLS, YLS, and SLS are in a league of their own. CCN is not close to this first tier that I mentioned.

Lol, only prelaw adviser in the world that is aware of "T14," subtiers, or job prospects in general?

credited. Most prelaw advisers have no clue.

Makes sense. So OP I would be willing to say the gap between schools for biglaw jobs and maybe all employment opportunities comes somewhere below the grade median. Also I would be willing to say there is a clerkship and academia gap. Meaning a student at HYS might not need as high of grades compared to what they would need at CCN. Even though academia and clerking are strong at CCN.

[Transferthrowaway]

My advisor graduated from Penn 2008 and he was was waitlisted at YLS

Waitlist letter was hanging on the wall in his office with the Penn diploma below it.

[Bronte]

My advisor graduated from Penn 2008 and he was was waitlisted at YLS

He told you he was waitlisted at Yale?

[kaiser]

The gap between HYS and CCN isn't all that big. Does a gap exist? Yes. No one argues that HYS isn't the most elite tier, and on a level of its own. But don't kid yourself into thinking that CCN are that far off. I know a bunch of kids who got into HYS but decided on CCN with $$, as well as many lawyers from CCN who work at firms right alongside HYS grads.

[Mal Reynolds]

This might be my 0L noob status but it seems like the grading system would be way better at HYS too. Chicago's system stresses me out even now. Am I crazy or is this somewhat correct?

[bernaldiaz]

This might be my 0L noob status but it seems like the grading system would be way better at HYS too. Chicago's system stresses me out even now. Am I crazy or is this somewhat correct?

Expand on Chicago's grading system for the unenlightened?

[JamMasterJ]

This might be my 0L noob status but it seems like the grading system would be way better at HYS too. Chicago's system stresses me out even now. Am I crazy or is this somewhat correct?

You would not like Harvard

[bernaldiaz]

This might be my 0L noob status but it seems like the grading system would be way better at HYS too. Chicago's system stresses me out even now. Am I crazy or is this somewhat correct?

Expand on Chicago's grading system for the unenlightened?

So I went and googled it myself. Here is the info from wikipedia in case anyone else was wondering the same thing.

"The University of Chicago Law School employs an exclusive grading system that places students on a scale of 155-186. The scale was 55-86 prior to 2003, but since then the school has utilized a prefix of "1" to eliminate confusion with the traditional 100 point grading scale. These numerical grades convert to the more familiar alphabetical scale roughly as follows: 155-159 = F, 160-167 = D, 168-173 = C, 174-179 = B, 180-186 = A. For classes of more than 50 students, professors are encouraged to set the median grade at 177, with the number of grades above a 180 approximately equaling the number of grades below a 173. Professors, however, are entitled to set a lower median at their discretion.
In a 21 June 2010 article in The New York Times, business writer Catherine Rampell criticized other schools' problems with grade inflation, but commended Chicago's system, saying "[Chicago] has managed to maintain the integrity of its grades."[6]
A student graduates "with honors" if a final average of 179 is attained, "with high honors" if a final average of 180.5 is attained, and "with highest honors" if a final average of 182 is attained. The last of these achievements is rare; typically only one student every few years will attain the requisite 182 average. Additionally, the Law School awards two honors at graduation that are based on class rank. The top 10% are honored as "Order of the Coif" members, and the top 5% are honored as "Kirkland Scholars" (a designation created in 2006 by a $7 million donation from the law firm of Kirkland & Ellis)."

[thederangedwang]

think it all depends on the field..if its biglaw then the difference is small ...however, when we start talking about academia and judicial clerkship stuff then the difference is apparent.....just look at the supreme court now, 6 from HLS, 3 for YLS

when it comes to academia and government, then i think the gap is larger and appreciable...in fact, i would say SLS lags behind Yale n HLS in this regard...judging from leiter's rankings and numbers, SLS really doesnt do better than CCN

[ahduth]

Some Leiter love: http://www.leiterrankings.com/usnews/guide.shtml

[Mal Reynolds]

This might be my 0L noob status but it seems like the grading system would be way better at HYS too. Chicago's system stresses me out even now. Am I crazy or is this somewhat correct?

You would not like Harvard

Once again, care to clarify? Is this because the grading system is tough or because my comment made me seem a little gunnner/aspie? It's just been my impression that the Pass/Honors system makes it easy to distinguish the very top of the class but not anywhere below that. While other school's grading, especially U Chi's point system, would be a little tougher.

[JamMasterJ]

This might be my 0L noob status but it seems like the grading system would be way better at HYS too. Chicago's system stresses me out even now. Am I crazy or is this somewhat correct?

You would not like Harvard

Once again, care to clarify? Is this because the grading system is tough or because my comment made me seem a little gunnner/aspie? It's just been my impression that the Pass/Honors system makes it easy to distinguish the very top of the class but not anywhere below that. While other school's grading, especially U Chi's point system, would be a little tougher.

just cause the people at Harvard are supergunnery and the place is not the greatest WRT QOL

[ahduth]

This might be my 0L noob status but it seems like the grading system would be way better at HYS too. Chicago's system stresses me out even now. Am I crazy or is this somewhat correct?

You would not like Harvard

Once again, care to clarify? Is this because the grading system is tough or because my comment made me seem a little gunnner/aspie? It's just been my impression that the Pass/Honors system makes it easy to distinguish the very top of the class but not anywhere below that. While other school's grading, especially U Chi's point system, would be a little tougher.

I think he's just insinuating that people at Harvard are dicks.